[Thad E Ginathom]

I think you had posted this video long back in a related discussion.

Indeed I did. Chilling, isn't it? And, all those years ago, when I first saw it, I didn't know how it was going to end either --- nor that I should wear a rear seat belt, and insist on others doing so.

By the way: amazing how the scene is set, the story told and the end reached, in a mere 31 seconds. I'd have sworn it was a least a couple of minutes. Such film-making skill! It still has the power to bring tears to my eyes.

I may talk know-it-all on some things now, but I know that even those, I too had to learn --- and there is a lot still to come. Which also relates to vb-san's comment

If someone does not believe in the positives of wearing seatbelt, and actually think that it's common sense not to wear seat belt in slow speeds, nothing much can be done.

OK. so yes, I'm actually shocked when I come across such statements here, but don't think nothing can be done. Just one video, for instance, or one minor bump that makes a person think, can change everything.

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by simplyself

I normally do not use seat belt, so no question of disengaging it. To be frank, I seldom use it.
....
Also, I seldom travel at more than 100 kmph. And ninety percent of the distance is on highways.
....
As far as speaking from personal experiences, I cannot say any thing; I never had any collision in my 17 years and over 5 lakh kilometres of driving. I prefer not to talk about the experiences of others, pros and cons of wearing/not bearing seat belts in such cases because I do not want to show disrespect.

I learned driving when I was 15. From an ex-rally driver, who taught me all the finer points of car control. After 16 years and lakhs of kilometres of uneventful driving mostly on the highway, I crashed my tin-can 1997 Maruti Zen into a tree. At maybe 70kmph.

Just think about this. Why do you think I am alive and fully functional today? It took me only about 3 months to recover from the accident.

One day sir, the odds will catch up with you. Thats life. For the sake of your family, I pray it never happens.

[Milestone]

Ahh.. this happened 2 days back on the way to work. Tata Winger (Infant Travels) rear ends my car in slow moving traffic at electronics city phase1 signal and damages the rear bumper. It so happened, the signal got cleared and traffic was moving steadily at slow pace, suddenly I feel someone is pushing hard from behind, I look through RVM and see this blue cab dangerously close, the very next second I realize my day is spoiled and have been rear ended. The usual drama starts, and I expected the driver to blame me for braking (which was not the case), contrary to that driver admits his mistake and started apologizing. Poor chap was so shaken that I could see him shivering, yes literally shivering and was pleading not to complain his employer or register police complaint. To cut the story short we settled the things and closed the chapter.

During the conversation I get to know he was hired just two days back (he showed me the appointment letter which he was carrying) and had just few days of experience driving a van !!! And the most shocking part was the break system was having problem and he was supposed to get it fixed after the morning trip.

Incident makes me think if this is the state of vehicle and experience of driver, even God can't help accidents.



Cheers !!!

[prateekm]

Hi Simplyself, I don't blame you for not wearing the belts, because maybe when you learnt to drive, cars weren't equipped with seatbelts. But seatbelts do save lives, even you know that, which is why you force your children to strap up when in the front, isn't it?

But you don't do it because you feel claustrophobic? Let me tell you, it's all in the mind. Let me give you an example. I learned driving a month back. I felt it was better to drive bare feet and learnt it that way. After getting the license, I just couldn't drive with shoes. Felt something odd. But still, I ignored it, drove with shoes on for a couple of days and now I don't feel any discomfort

I started riding about 3 years back and have done 50k km on my bikes. Never had a fall, but that doesn't keep me from wearing my riding gear each time I ride because there might be one day where I do a mistake and the riding gear might save me. I have many friends in college who give reasons like feeling hot, feeling claustrophobic, can't see properly, etc. and skipping to wear a helmet. These people would rather like to believe in a fictional forces for saving their lives in a crash than believing in science which is based on proofs and has proved by saving lives.

Remember, there is a very small line between confidence in your skills and overconfidence.

[Thad E Ginathom]

But you don't do it because you feel claustrophobic? Let me tell you, it's all in the mind.

It's true. Well, I'm not saying the discomfort is not real enough, I can't argue with that, but, with familiarization, these things change. Simplyself, can you imagine feeling naked and vulnerable, as driver or passenger, without a seat belt? That's how I feel, even in the back of a cab, where the belt clip is usually long lost down the back of the set. But did I always feel that way? No way. My parents' cars, early in my life didn't even have belts, and I must have been a young adult (although still some time before I passed my driving test) before they were legally enforced in my mother country.

I decided to wear them because of one bump. Then I started learning about accident simulations, and what happens. I really feel that there should always be a little bit of being afraid when driving, and just enough of looking at the gory stuff, which is education.

Yes, the Julie film shocked and impressed me, but what really got me wearing rear seat belts was an ex-policeman colleague, who, in reply to my "But the back of the seat in front of you is soft, isn't it?," just said, "You try picking bits of body out of the metal frame under that fabric."

Google will tell you what happens in the first second of an accident. You don't have to be going very fast to be unconcerned ---ever--- about what happens in the second second, but even at those infamous "city speeds" the first second might well leave you wishing you weren't experiencing the second second.

Gruesome stuff, and we risk it, every day.

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by simplyself

I normally do not use seat belt, so no question of disengaging it. To be frank, I seldom use it. Only time I use it is when I see police stopping and inspecting vehicles.

I am appalled by your thoughts on seatbelts. I have lost a close friend to an accident in which her life could have been saved if she wore seatbelts.

I admit that I was a rash driver when I was young, but today I have become a safe driver, because I have learnt a lot from that incident.

Remember a wise man learns from other's experience and others from their own experience. Just decide on which category you want to belong.

[swarnava.m]

Originally Posted by prateekm

...But you don't do it because you feel claustrophobic? Let me tell you, it's all in the mind...[/i]

I will second that. Also, I will share a little bit of my experience here.

When I learnt driving a few years back, I was exact opposite of what you would call a "safe driver". I rode my scooter on the streets in a way that makes my blood boil today when I see others doing the same. Hope you get the idea.

I never ever wore seat belts in my first 2 years of driving, except on the highway, because of cops. I had the exact same thoughts that simplyself here has, so I can say that in those times I would have completely supported him.

Neither did I ever wear the helmet in the city, citing the same reason as "city speeds". Ashamed to admit, I once even rode away, or to put it in simpler words, ran, as the cops tried to stop me for not wearing a helmet.

Then I had an accident. Minor, but made a huge impact. Basically my bike skidded on an oil spill, while taking a right turn. Speed was around 15-20 kph. Definitely city speeds.

I was very lucky that my head did not hit the road when I fell, because the impact was pretty hard. The bike bore the major brunt, and I escaped with a bruised arm.

That accident instilled a fear in me. I started respecting the fact that on the road, not everything is in our control, and we may suffer even when the fault is entirely someone else's. Hence, it is absolutely not possible to justify that since one is travelling at city speeds, he/she is safe from the impact of a shunt. Laws of probability and prediction are of no use here. Each accident has multiple factors (speed, momentum, force of impact, direction, etc.) influencing it, however small. And due to the cumulative effect of these factors, the end result can be disastrous. Minor collisions at crawling speeds can be life threatening, or at least have the potential to inflict major injuries. The value for human life is decreasing day by day among road users, and this increases the importance of using any safety measures that are available to us.

Going back to the post that I have quoted, as for one feeling claustrophobic, no, it is all a matter of getting used to it. Remember when you stepped into an elevator for the first time? As for me, I felt immensely claustrophobic then. Even today, I do not feel completely comfortable in that small cubicle, but I keep telling myself that it is all in the head (which, in fact, is completely true), and these devices are used by people all over the world, day in day out. I try talking to others in the lift, and it helps.

Same goes for seat belts. Today when I get into the driver's seat, I do not feel at ease until my seat belt is in place. When I sit in the back seat of a car, or a movie theater, or a conference hall, or any place where the seat even remotely resembles that of a car, the first thing I feel is the lack of a seat belt which straps me in. In the back seat of a car, I always buckle up, not so much due to the safety aspect of it, but because it makes me feel weird and naked if I am not buckled up. People laugh sometimes, but I choose to ignore.

So you see, it really is all in the head. In my case, it is quite the opposite. It is a feeling in my head that I need to be strapped in with a seat belt. If I am not, I feel something that can be the opposite of claustrophobic, (sorry, not getting a word), but extremely weird all the same.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by Milestone

Ahh.. this happened 2 days back on the way to work.

Sorry to hear about that, Manu. The dent doesnt seem very visible - maybe you have to live with that. Very sad to see something like this happen to a well maintained vehicle

Originally Posted by swarnava.m

If I am not, I feel something that can be the opposite of claustrophobic, (sorry, not getting a word), but extremely weird all the same.

Well said, swarnava. The lift example was apt. And the 'naked' was the word you used. Nothing better!!

[simplyself]

Missing woods for the tress is what I would call this : I have made quite clear that I am aware of the safety aspects of wearing seat belts. The fact that I do not wear them is a matter of my choice. So, the argument might confine to that angle.

Nor did I advise any one not to wear seat belts.

Does any one think I have not seen many accidents in my experience?

If I do not wear a seat belt, and if I meet with an accident, it is I who suffers and not the other road users. It is the same case with helmet too. Not wearing a seat belt or a helmet doesnt in any way affect other road users. And treating people who do not wear helmet or seat belt as morons is highly objectionable.

It is true we didnt have seat belts in car when I learnt driving in 1997. Since 2002, when I had an Indica (2002) and a Bolero (2002), both came with seat belts. After a few years a rule was made making it compulsory to wear them. Now I have Omni (2011) and Santro(2012), which were factory fitted with seat belts.

I learnt driving without my footwear. After a couple of days, I had my footwear on. There was no mental block. I never felt claustrophobic when I was in an elevator for the first time.

May be the word claustrophobic threw people on false scent. What I actually feel is very uncomfortable ( it may be said that I am quite wide).

I bought helmet when it was not mandatory. I do not feel claustrophobic when I wear it.

I was mostly self taught though I had a driver who taught me the basics. The finer points were all learnt by myself.

Common sense doesnt dictate not to wear seat belts. Common sense says feel comfortable while driving.

Educate the users and leave it to them, do not assume a holier than thou attitude.

To get to the woods, I repeat my original point : Not wearing seat belt is not an indication of a bad driver.

[rohanjf]

Originally Posted by simplyself

To get to the woods, I repeat my original point : Not wearing seat belt is not an indication of a bad driver.

A bad driver is someone who puts other drivers not only in danger, but also in deep trouble.

Since you drive a small car, if you end up rear-ending a big SUV and getting injured, everyone will blame the SUV driver for no fault of his.

[nileshch]

Originally Posted by simplyself

Missing woods for the tress is what I would call this : I have made quite clear that I am aware of the safety aspects of wearing seat belts. The fact that I do not wear them is a matter of my choice. So, the argument might confine to that angle.

...

To get to the woods, I repeat my original point : Not wearing seat belt is not an indication of a bad driver.

I'd again repeat what everyone is trying to say - Not wearing a seat belt are signs of a careless driver. If one do not value his own life, he should value it for his loved ones & dependents at the very least! One does not have a choice in matters of life & death, unless one has suicidal tendencies.

Old days are gone. Now vehicles have gotten faster and the road is littered with fools of all kinds. If not your mistake, someone else might land you in a situation where you would thank yourself for wearing a seat belt.

Pardon me for being a little harsh, but that's how it is!

[swarnava.m]

Originally Posted by simplyself

Missing woods for the tress is what I would call this : I have made quite clear that I am aware of the safety aspects of wearing seat belts. The fact that I do not wear them is a matter of my choice. So, the argument might confine to that angle...To get to the woods, I repeat my original point : Not wearing seat belt is not an indication of a bad driver.

I have no intentions of sparking any argument here, but it is my observations that the gist of the posts have changed from what they were in the previous page. In the previous page, the posts were about how seat belts are not of great use, and how it is a misconception that people say they are life saving. In this post, it is all about how it is a personal choice of yours not to use a seat belt while driving. I will be happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

Trust me, not wearing a seat belt is an indication of a driver who is not bothered about his safety, or his value to his close ones. If that qualifies for him to be called a bad driver, then so be it.

Coming to the matter of choice. While it is completely your own choice whether to wear seat belts or not, and nobody else's business, if anybody is trying to tell you that you are wrong for not wearing a seat belt, it is not out of spite or to prove a point. It is only because the members are concerned about your safety on the road, or any other person's, for that matter. In the end, the bottom line is that nobody can force you to change your habit or your decision, it is completely upto you. However, if you are demoting the advantages of a seat belt, then that is downright wrong, and people here will definitely correct you, as it sends out a wrong message to those who may not be as aware. This is because the opinion of the mass becomes the opinion of the forum, and everybody here believes in the kind of protection offered by the use of seat belts. Period.

[bblost]

Note from Support

Lets please move ON.

Thanks for you co-operation,
Support Team.

[noopster]

A bike rider balancing about 4 buckets filled with some kind of construction material (2 on each side) was right in front of me as I emerged from my office gate. I saw him veer off towards the left and was curious what he was upto.

Realised the rider was taking his helmet off while riding and hanging it on the rear. He was doing this with other bikes and cars moving around him. It then hit me that since my office enforces a mandatory helmet policy, this moron had used his helmet till he was out of the office premises and was then gettign rid of the offending superfluous appendage. Gave him a wide berth and drove off.

On the road to my home (a wide 6-lane road with sparse traffic) a scooter rider with a child standing in front of him and two balloons as well. Probably heading to the child's birthday party. The balloons were obstructing the rider's view and he never saw me in the rear mirror. Felt like stopping and yelling at him for endangering that poor kid's life but then figured, what if he says things like "You have no right to judge my right to be a moron"?

God help these guys.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by bblost

Note from Support

Lets please move ON.

Thanks for you co-operation,
Support Team.

OK, I just deleted my post in progress. But I want to say: it is not personal. If one person posts something which is completely erroneous about serious safety aspects of driving, then it is not just because of that person that everyone responds. It is because of the many, many, who have the same misapprehensions, and who may pass by here. It might save the life of a browser who is not even a member.

That's why we bother ...right?