[neelchak]

Adding to all the succinct and valid arguments above in favor of the use of OVRM, there are many countries where you are fined for not having both OVRM and IVRM in your car, forget folding them and driving around.
That speaks volume about the debate between it being a mandatory requirement vis-a-vis driver's judgement (which more often than not puts other innocents' life to more danger than the driver him/her self)

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Yes, I have seen many who do drive without ORVM and FYI olden generation cars mostly had IRVM and Right ORVM. At that time no left ORVM was there so driving was not safe at those times?

• There were not much 4 lane roads then
• There were no morons who would stick to the rightmost lane and poorer morons left with no choice but overtake from left
• There were no banks that so easily provided one a car/Bike loan then
• There were no rapid increase in traffic density on our roads then like we see today

It boils down to the driver and his talent to manage the drive. No specific rule is mentioned to have the ORVM open and to use.

Sadly, there is not such "explicit" rule but its imperative that a rule that talks about mirrors means using them properly and effectively and not just having them in your car.

Originally Posted by harry10

Rule. Really?
If we BHPians will talk like this what will happen to general public who aren't so aware about safety features. There is a reason ORVM are given in a car cos they increase visibility while overtaking or changing lanes which is no way safely possible only with IRVM no matter how experienced and talented is any driver.

Agreed completely. I have had many arguments (barring fisticuffs) with a lot of fellas who claim to manage driving with IRVMs alone. Sorry but they are bigger fools.

Blind Spots, well, that's when you will realize why you need ORVMs. Try changing a lane at high speeds and you know IRVM may not at all be so much useful as the ORVM that can show you traffic on 2 more lanes on either of your sides and more importantly, the traffic that is next to you which is not possible with IRVMs.

For the stupidity of a manufacturer like Maruti who provided my 2006 WagonR with flat ORVMs, I pro-actively changed the pair to convex types so that I feel safer and it offers much better visibility on the sides compared to their flat counterparts!

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Blind Spots, well, that's when you will realize why you need ORVMs. Try changing a lane at high speeds and you know IRVM may not at all be so much useful as the ORVM that can show you traffic on 2 more lanes on either of your sides and more importantly, the traffic that is next to you which is not possible with IRVMs.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

A good driver uses all their mirrors, and one who does not is less good, and less safe.

I will go to the other extreme and say that just checking your mirrors is still not safe enough. A quick assessment of your surroundings is incomplete without the look over your shoulder to cover your blind spots. The I/ORVMs will not cover that, unless they have blind spot detection. Well, even if they do have blind spot detection, you will still need to look over your shoulder. I don't know whether a convex RVM will help or not because I probably wont be able to judge the actual distance between the object and my car. With time and practice, maybe I will get better but it will be quite inconvenient and somewhat dangerous while I get familiar with it.

Here in US, while giving your driving test, if you don't do a shoulder check when changing your lane, the examiner will mark it as a negative point.

But, the connection between a bad driver and folded ORVMs is circumstantial and would probably need further evidence to confirm whether the said driver is indeed a bad driver or not. It is certainly a valid starting premise though.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I will go to the other extreme and say that just checking your mirrors is still not safe enough. A quick assessment of your surroundings is incomplete without the look over your shoulder to cover your blind spots.

And when you are driving, these do help. Assessing your surroundings is something we do as a normal practice, by walking around your car.

I don't know whether a convex RVM will help or not because I probably wont be able to judge the actual distance between the object and my car. With time and practice, maybe I will get better but it will be quite inconvenient and somewhat dangerous while I get familiar with it.

Those who have driven with flat mirrors with least coverage and convex mirror with better coverage will be able to share something similar that I did. Regarding the "Actual Distance", well, isn't it a matter of time before we all get used to it? After all, all the mirrors that you see today (ORVMs) are convex types only.

Here in US, while giving your driving test, if you don't do a shoulder check when changing your lane, the examiner will mark it as a negative point.

Like how we check a biker next to the footpath trying to squeeze from left and overtake you when you have already signalled to turn left.

Use cases vary from countries and sample of idiots is higher in India and I am sure you will agree to that.

Keeping both the mirrors adjusted to an angle to see your fuel tank cap will help one in typical city traffic - Hey, there that biker next to you, Oops there that BMTC bus with its bumper almost touching my car's tail lamp!!

[ad3952n]

Folks! Accept my due apologies in-prior for the uploaded video. This moron is my driver and he often takes calls while driving. Today, I recorded his habit and showed it to Paa. He has been suspended from duty for a week and his whole week salary has been cut by Paa.

Here is the video (use mute)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLjZOaLLidY

Disclaimer: As a responsible driver and a member of this acclaimed community I simply denounce such wrong habits of driver.

Thanks.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Some choose to drive with the mirrors and some don't. It is just opinion and CANNOT be forced upon. Right?!

Anurag.

To the tune of If I ruled the world ...

Well, If I did, yes, you would be forced to. In the real world, whether something is stipulated by law or not is largely irrelevant because it is most likely not to be enforced anyway.
But no, the basics of good driving practice are really not a matter of opinion at all. They are set out in the driving codes and driving tests of countries that have such things.

Originally Posted by amitoj

I will go to the other extreme and say that just checking your mirrors is still not safe enough. A quick assessment of your surroundings is incomplete without the look over your shoulder to cover your blind spots.

... ... ...

But, the connection between a bad driver and folded ORVMs is circumstantial and would probably need further evidence to confirm whether the said driver is indeed a bad driver or not. It is certainly a valid starting premise though.

Certainly, there are still blind spots. There is much more to the appreciation of who is around us and where than just glancing at our mirrors.

We probably all of us have a combination of good and bad driving habits, and one can only say a good or bad driver on balance, although that balance would have to exclude any really dangerous habit.

I was driving badly the time I didn't do the shoulder check to spot an overtaking van in my blind spot on a British motorway before changing lanes. Stuff like that is to learn from and hopefully the lesson made me a better driver. (There was no accident, but it must have been a nasty moment for the van driver)

[balajird]

Let me play the "devil's advocate" role, there is nothing called as "blind spot" if you align your ORVM and IRVM properly, I remember seeing a youtube video on that (

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tDI4ThwdXg

) and it worked flawlessly for me. I no longer need to do the "shoulder check" to see if there is any vehicle is in "blind spot". I have been driving for quite a while now with great success with this setup, If you see a car in your IRVM and just before it disappears on the IRVM, you will be seeing it on the ORVM.

P.S - This is perfectly applicable in NA and I will have to agree that this MIGHT no be applicable in "Indian" driving conditions.

[Soumyajit9]

Talking of bad drivers not using ORVMs', had a minor spat with one of my in-laws' senior family member, about a month back.
The fellow has an Eon, which comes with only driver side ORVM. He keeps it folded all the time and drives.
He asked me to drop him somewhere. I open the folded ORVM and he says - 'No no, close it. Someone will hit'.
I say - I can't drive without seeing the ORVM. He quietly agrees. Then I realised that the left side ORVM was missing, which he said, was not given by Hyundai on his variant.
I asked him to put one and use it.
Then comes the damn shocker response from him.

"I don't need to see ORVMs". If anything is coming up, like a turn or reversing, etc, I simple slow down the car to a dead halt, and then slowly proceed. Still then if someone hits me, it is his/her fault, not mine".



I just wanted to kick him out of the car. Better sense prevailed considering that he is from my better half's family. I drove with a lot of headache on not being able to see the left side of the car and trust me, that is my last drive on his car, unless he gets a passenger side ORVM and uses both of them.

[deetjohn]

Usage and understanding of ORVMs should be mandated for all.

Originally Posted by balajird

P.S - This is perfectly applicable in NA and I will have to agree that this MIGHT no be applicable in "Indian" driving conditions.

Yep. It will work when there are wide roads and multiple lanes.

Here in Kerala, where I stay, the roads are narrow and single lane most of the time. So, I have set the ORVMs in such a way that I can see a portion of my car through it.

Its a great reference when I take a left turn from a narrow opening, like a gate or a narrow lane with boundary walls on both sides. For passing a car parked on the left side or while giving way to oncoming traffic when the roads are just wide enough for two vehicles to pass.

ORVMs are a great help to judge the distance between the vehicles to leave a gap while passing each other on narrow lanes.

[luvDriving]

Driving with both ORVMs and the IRVM has become such a habit that I for one would be completely handicapped while driving my car. I do also need to look over my shoulder sometimes to better rule out any unseen objects, specially while reversing the car.

Yet -
1. Is driving without ORVM possible ? Of course yes
2. Is it safe ? Not if you are used to driving with them and in today's traffic scenes, well, not even if you are used to driving without them.
3. Is someone driving without ORVMs a bad driver ? Not necessarily but s/he can be classified as a careless (?) one.
4. Is having ORVMs a sign of a good driver ? again not necessarily. I have seen people driving with both ORVM open perform maneuvers which prove that they are not using the mirrors at all.

Actually I had also read an article on how to adjust your ORVMs and IRVMs optimally so that you bring down your blind corners to a minimum. I think it was on this forum itself and since then I have adjusted my car's mirrors according to the suggested manner and it has been a boon to driving safely.

So all in all I would say that the fact that there is not rule stipulating a driver to use ORVMs should not be an argument in favour of dispensing off such a great aid to driving safely.

[Guite]

Lots of car drivers keep their ORVM folded. Most motorcycle riders use it as vanity mirror if at all they have the mirror. All of these people would do well to use and check their rear view mirror before changing lanes or taking a turn. There should be a fine for not properly aligning ORVMs. It would not be possible to actually ensure people look at the mirror to check nearby traffic, but it would still be a step in the right direction.

For me whether two wheeler or four wheeler it is an absolute necessity.

[sarcastichouse]

I find the ORVMs absolutely essential while driving as well as riding. Without them I feel handicapped. Especially in country like ours, where drivers and riders rampantly overtake through the blind spots, the RVMs are a basic necessity.
As @guite mentioned, one cannot overlook the importance of ORVMs while changing lanes, that said the IRVM falls inadequate.

[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by sarcastichouse

I find the ORVMs absolutely essential while driving as well as riding. Without them I feel handicapped. Especially in country like ours, where drivers and riders rampantly overtake through the blind spots, the RVMs are a basic necessity.
As @guite mentioned, one cannot overlook the importance of ORVMs while changing lanes, that said the IRVM falls inadequate.

More often than not, in quite a number of two wheelers, either the mirror is broken or facing in some other direction. Riders change lanes based on instincts i guess.

[sarcastichouse]

Originally Posted by suresh_gs

More often than not, in quite a number of two wheelers, either the mirror is broken or facing in some other direction. Riders change lanes based on instincts i guess.

Some riders willfully fold up their mirrors. It reportedly looks 'cool'. There was a particular trend when one of the movies, 'Parindey' I guess showed up Pulsar 220s with folded mirrors. A lot of motorcyclists, especially P220 riders followed it blindly. Some geniuses knock off the mirrors completely.

[ajay4060]

I never thought that I will start my TBHP Journey with complaints.

Friday 25th; 2014 (around 7:30 PM); I was with my Colleagues in Xylo behind MH43AN4662 (Ford Eco Sport) with LTD sticker on Mumbai Pune Expressway.
Everybody in my office knows about Team BHP and what it means if somebody is putting TBHP Stickers on their cars.
Keeping this in mind when my colleague who was driving asked for a pass by using Dipper; u didn't respond. You continue to drive in Overtaking Lane with over 80KMS/hr; we again requested for a pass politely.
But to our surprise you decided to apply sudden Brakes; definitely to teach us a lesson for politely asking you for a pass from right side. Thanks God no other car was behind us and everybody was safe.
I am sure you are not a TBHPian; Piece of Advice: “Try to leave your anger at your home and drive carefully”.
MH03-9835; blue i20 with Got BHP Stickers; always spot you between Vashi and Andheri. Please avoid Breaking Signals especially when u see Traffic; twice I have observed you doing this. I know at Mankhurd/ Sakinaka you have to break signals some time to avoid Road Rage during lean hours. But please be careful.