[VivOverland]

At the risk of becoming unpopular here, let me ask this... how many of us here ignore right of way rules, park illegally, speed above the limit, have aux lights and equipment which is not RTO authorised? Indulge in vigilante behaviour? It's easier to rant and take a holier than thou attitude, than spend our lifetime making REAL change.

Meanwhile, more Indians die of traffic accidents, than were a jumbo jet to crash, every day!

Let's first admit that we ALL drive badly. Then make an effort to change oneself, before others. If you're interested in learning to change, please PM and join my effort.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by samaspire

I think you might be posting this on the wrong forum. We are tbhp, not xbhp.

FYI, redlining (as shown in the thbp logo) does not necessarily mean illegal speeds.

Thanx for the correction samaspire. I stand corrected. About the logo, you are right. It's like nitpicking which is what I feel everybody pouncing on that Faisal guy were doing and giving the feeling that everyone themselves are saint drivers. So much so that everyone forgot what thread they were on too. What frenzy and fun . That's the feeling I got from it all. There are gazillion people out there killing tons of others on the road with their stupidity on a daily basis, think of how they might be driving, and amongst all this, our teambhpians mauling one Faisal seemed kinda funny to me. Just because he is visible on record on YouTube. It's becoming very typical and easy on social media these days. Anyone can maul anyone.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I wonder why you get the feeling. Guilty conscious?

No. I didn't ape him to be guilty. It's just that I've been on them bhp long enough to know how the members react to stuff. What I am wondering is, why just Faisal? I just hope tbhp doesn't become just like other "social media" where everybody mauls everybody and has a field day at it.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by VivOverland

Let's first admit that we ALL drive badly. Then make an effort to change oneself, before others. If you're interested in learning to change, please PM and join my effort.

Not at all. Many T-BHP members are good drivers, many are sincerely aiming to become better and safer drivers. And not all road users outside our forum are bad. Remember: it's the good drivers out there that we don't notice!

As an immigrant, it took me many years to realise that, whilst it would be great if it was, the British (or equivalent) Highway Code is not what governs every minute on our streets, and it is just not practical to insist on following all of those sorts of rules.

Driving is like dancing, and once had to do the same dance as everybody else. Not to do so is disruptive and can be dangerous. We are not all bad drivers just because we do not always follow rules, local or foreign.

We have to be as safe as we can be within our particular world.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by pixantz

About the Faisal Khan "menace" as described here, I think all those "concerned" should have a look at You Tubes take on such videos and take a cue from that. Simply because, for one, there are tons of drivers around everywhere who have much worse everyday driving habits causing much more heartburn and stress on the roads everyday without even realizing it maybe, if you observe closely. Oh, they're not on YouTube, by the way, so most wouldn't know.

Those tons of drivers don't have a fan following for starters, have you seen the rash uber driver have a youtube/facebook page he calls people to meet from all over the country?

Secondly they are not automotive journalists apparently, this menace is not just a menace, its a crime in the eyes of the law, why do you think team-bhp has rules against posting about speeding on the forum? Driving like a complete idiot on public roads is no where called journalism, do you see people like Autocar, Overdrive do that? If you have videos of them doing it, I will call that out too, but I am sure there are not as I have never seen one, heck Autocar tested the Polo GTI with the speedo showing 80 kmph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-WITxS2R9o

When Autocar wanted to a 300 kmph + run on an R8, they shut down the outer ring road near Hyderabad.

Also by all means fine all of them who are caught breaking the law including Khan Sahab, proof is in abundance anyway, instead of condemning such actions, you are getting into 'there are worse' kind of debates

Originally Posted by pixantz

Secondly, except for the one thing against him is his being in illegal speeds at times, briefly, his driving is not really what one would call rash. And guess what, I never watched his videos and went out and revved the nuts out of my own machine as a result. Because I'm not an ape and don't ape things. If somebody did ape, then he's an ape, and Faisal didn't ask the ape to do it in the first place. Just saying.

Firstly, that little thing of doing 150's, 200's, 250's on Palm beach road and Mumbai Pune Expressway is what has got innumerable people killed ever since that road came into existence, secondly, I did not want to get into this charade of posting more videos and giving the fool more publicity, but I want others to judge if this is a 'one little thing' or even 'One'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdmPjImoEaQ&t=405s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjMyOVIcHdo&t=336s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb6n_TbFk3o&t=799s

Mods: I am obviously not posting this to promote speeding, I am against it and hence the videos

Originally Posted by pixantz

I've watched a lot of his videos amongst other people's videos and noticed that he never breaks signals as far as I've seen, doesn't stop on the zebra crossing, never cuts of anybody or creates a situation where someone yells at him, never saw him zigzagging, or tailgating someone or any such thing.

Firstly, Upkar Khan sahab ka that he does not break signals or does not stop over Zebra crossings If he did, how would you know? Someone who drives like that can't be any saint.

Secondly most of his videos have tailgating, zigzagging and what not, you sound ridiculous now.

Originally Posted by pixantz

Even his "menacing" speed stints are always on deserted strips or on back roads or the likes. Also, he always wears safety gear especially on a bike, which almost nobody normally does. This is what I personally distinctly noticed. Now I'm not an expert like most may be here but to my mind that's pretty acceptable if you compare it to most other road users of Apna pyaara desh. Ah, the speed thingy is the thing I can't comment about. But guess what, even our xbhp logo has the needle way in the red. I'm not requesting the mods to get it into acceptable territory though.

Palm beach road and Mumbai Pune expressways are backroads? Secondly he wears safety gear to save his skin on a bike, not anyone elses.

You can rev a car in 1st gear, 2nd gear and not break the speed limit you know? I can't believe that you used that as a point to argue over.

Originally Posted by pixantz

Everyone likes to point fingers, but come on, how many bhpians can cross their heart and say they've never overpeeded or never do it occasionally on the sly? There you go. Everyone has the answer I guess. Of it being legal and right or wrong is another story.

Most people smoke, why is a big deal when a movie star smokes?

Originally Posted by pixantz

Faisal is a bit different though, I would say.

The most irresponsible

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I infact reported him to Mumbai traffic police but I wonder if anything was done.

I am doing that now too.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by humyum

Those tons of drivers don't have a fan following for starters, have you seen the rash uber driver have a Youtube/facebook page he calls people to meet from all over the country?

So what if he has a fan following, is he telling them to ape him? How can you be so sure they are his fans because he breaks the law or drives senselessly as You think? There are a lot of undue assumptions here, I suppose. You are automatically thinking him to be propagating illegal speeds. I don't see why. And there are tons of other people on You tube like that. Nobody is saying they're saints. They're wrong. But why is only one Faisal targeted here? That's what gets me.

Tomorrow if I get an R8 and speed up and kill people I'm not going to blame Faisal or Autocar, I saw them both speeding though and who is going to decide if Faisal or Autocar is to blame? I think, I would be the one to blame solely. What do you think would happen if I'd say that to the police that I was speeding because I saw Faisal do it? It's like someone is standing on the railway track and if a train runs over, you blame.... the train? Like the papers; "speeding train hits and kills poor man standing on the track." It's happening live in Amritsar now. Rip the souls. I, for one, don't blame the train driver.

Nobody is saying Faisal, or others like him are right. The question is, why is there so many posts on just Faisal on this tbhp thread? We beat the real fans to it by now I guess.

The mods are going to get worked up by how this is going. OK, I'm not mentioning that 'F' word again . I didn't start it, anyway... It's the police's job.

[rajivtelang]

Originally Posted by VivOverland

Let's first admit that we ALL drive badly. Then make an effort to change oneself, before others. If you're interested in learning to change, please PM and join my effort.

I agree that driving in Bangalore is difficult to call as 100% safe due to some inevitable overtakes you need to do. But if you need to get accustomed you need to be like that. But I try my best to obey all rules. On highways I make sure to stick to all possible rules including speed limits. It in fact helps get good FE. But again due to some idiots you are forced to overtake from wrong side. Not sure how to judge that behaviour. In my opinion I treat it as my last option since I need to reach my destination in time as well as take care of my family in car and other codrivers/pedestrians on road too.

[vivek95]

Originally Posted by pixantz

But why is only one Faisal targeted here? That's what gets me.

The question is, why is there so many posts on just Faisal on this tbhp thread? We beat the real fans to it by now I guess.

Faisal coincidentally happened to be the topic of discussion yesterday when a fellow bhpian came across his YouTube videos showing his illegal acts performed on public roads. So what's wrong if he is targeted now ?? He is truly a menace. I watched his only one video of DC Avanti after he became an overnight celebrity ( for all bad reasons ) on our forum . This guy is truly an idiot driving that DC Avanti at speeds of 182 kmph on a public road in Mumbai. Why are you sympathising with him so much if he is targeted for that ?

So many accidents happen in this world everyday, but some bhp-ian comes up with one pic or story of one such incident and shares it on this thread. Discussions then continue on that one particular accident. Faisal's is similar to that, simple.

[VivOverland]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

many are sincerely aiming to become better and safer drivers.

Spot on, and that's why there is still hope to improve How India Drives. This is my agenda, and I refuse to be shy about it any more. My effort is to collect like minded folk who aim to change their driving for the better, one person at a time. No calls for new legislation, Government, Supreme Court, RTO etc. They have their own objectives, unfortunately saving lives on the road, is perhaps not yet one of them.

We use WhatsApp and my blog to share safe practices tuned to India. Rants are seen as a waste of time.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

it is just not practical to insist on following all of those sorts of rules.

well meaning statements like this, highlight how far we must go. When a 'good driver' ignores the right of way, because no one else follows it - does the risk diminish? When a 'good driver' parks in a no-parking zone, does it not reduce the carriageway?

Yes I do understand that India is different at the moment, but we should hardly accept our low standards of driving, as a permanent state of affairs. Few people realise that the US was far worse at the dawn of the automobile, they changed because people demanded it and made sure that rules were applied and followed. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...roit/26312107/

[shubhodeepdas@g]

This topic has outrun its value here and frankly does not belong to this thread "Accidents in India". Yes, there are many home grown reviewers and even proper ones who test the limits of cars on public roads without a care for other users, but that probably belongs to the Bad Drivers' thread here (Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em) or something similar.

We all watch many videos and movies of drivers doing unthinkable stunts on the road, but ultimately it's the individual driver's common sense that matters on the road, just because I saw someone "eat a broccoli" or "wear a netted shirt", I am not going to follow suit.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by VivOverland

well meaning statements like this, highlight how far we must go. When a 'good driver' ignores the right of way, because no one else follows it - does the risk diminish? When a 'good driver' parks in a no-parking zone, does it not reduce the carriageway?

Sure, bad habits continue to bad, and dangerous habits are always dangerous. That is why we are on a thread like this, to call each other's attention to them, not just collect them like in an album. Similarly, the Accidents thread is hugely instructional.

I salute your intention to make the world a better place, and, even more, I salute the fact that you are doing something about it.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by pixantz

So what if he has a fan following, is he telling them to ape him? How can you be so sure they are his fans because he breaks the law or drives senselessly as You think? There are a lot of undue assumptions here, I suppose. You are automatically thinking him to be propagating illegal speeds. I don't see why. And there are tons of other people on You tube like that. Nobody is saying they're saints. They're wrong. But why is only one Faisal targeted here? That's what gets me.

When I see other 'journalists' who calls themselves CEO's of XYZ and get called by Automotive companies and what not for doing car reviews behaving like this, I will "give them the beans" too.

About the 'driving senselessly' as "I think" comment, you don't think doing 200-250 on a road in Mumbai where traffic is doing 70-80 is dangerous? You don't think criss crossing around them while doing such speeds is dangerous? If not, we have a disagreement right here.

You sound like a fanboy, so I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by shubhodeepdas@g

We all watch many videos and movies of drivers doing unthinkable stunts on the road, but ultimately it's the individual driver's common sense that matters on the road, just because I saw someone "eat a broccoli" or "wear a netted shirt", I am not going to follow suit.

I don't think you doing either is going to affect anyone else, people barreling down roads where we live and drive at affects us and hence we care[/quote]

Show me one Indian magazine who does such insane stunts and is called by Car companies to review their cars too?

Eating a broccoli or wearing a netted shirt won't get someone driving on the expressway or palm beach road killed.

Anyway let's agree to disagree and you are right, this topic either deserves a separate thread to debate on or we should stop talking about it here.

[VivOverland]

Originally Posted by rajivtelang

But if you need to get accustomed you need to be like that. But I try my best to obey all rules.

That is our dilemna, when driving in India. My humble submission, please don't be the one forcing others to overtake from the left. Or the one barging into a roundabout. Or the one parking for 'just 2 minutes' in the wrong spot. Or displaying lane indiscipline.

We can each take a step to make the roads safer. Or not. The rest is beyond our direct control.

And yes, I too overtake cautiously from the left when faced with an untrained driver, but only after trying to overtake correctly.

For those interested, learn about the 'traffic snake', safe merging practices, when to use hazard lights (NOT in tunnels or in fog), LOS/POT - plenty of information available on Google.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by humyum

I will "give them the beans" too.

Please go ahead. As long as you're happy everyone should be fine. Cheers.

[rajivtelang]

Originally Posted by VivOverland

My humble submission, please don't be the one forcing others to overtake from the left. Or the one barging into a roundabout.

This mainly applies to trucks running slowly in rightmost lane on highways. NH-48/4 is now 3 lanes in many places where I have struggled multiple times to get through trucks, one in each lane going in parallel and none wanting to slowdown. This is true on almost all highways I have traveled.
We can always start slowly by one step improvement but my worry is our "correct" driving is interpreted as "totally incorrect" by many drivers in India . I have seen people giving looks when they over speed from left side of my car many times (bikers most of the times). And if something happens, it is the bigger vehicle at "fault", no matter whose real fault it is.

[moralfibre]

Saw this incident in Goa and captured it on my dashcam. Pedestrian saw a car driving on the wrong side. He stood in it's path and asked him to reverse and drive on the correct side. Driver refused and instead nudged the pedestrian. This infuriated the pedestrian who just vandalised the car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2764_PslsJk