[Sawyer]

Well said, gpa. I will take issue only with the last statement. I see myself as the bottom of the pyramid. If all of us did just that too, instead of looking at other drivers to improve, would that not have any impact? I read on the posts about TBHP drivers being just as culpable, hence the question.
Be the change you want to see.

[aerohit]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Just a nudge to keep this post alive, it seems to need the oxygen! I thought this subject would not excite too many people, but the response has been a lot poorer than I thought at first. One reason for the state of affairs, I imagine. People are more worked up about the ex president being frisked.

Could it be superstitious belief of the society? Lord Yoga will come down some day and solve all infrastructure problems?

Keep in mind, the frisking incident took place in April - so why cry about it now? Shows, how much the people and other MPs are informed. This proves that, if media shows crap on TV, people will believe that crap.

[gpa]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

If all of us did just that too, instead of looking at other drivers to improve, would that not have any impact? I read on the posts about TBHP drivers being just as culpable.

Sawyer,

It is going to take a while for this to happen. But, it's important that we make a start. Members of this community should lead the way. If we (T-Bhpians) give in to our emotions and become rash and reckless on the road, how different are we from the rest?

A classic example I noticed this morning enroute to work. A rather rash Hyundai Tuscon driver kept weaving in and out of all lanes on the ring road to try and get forward. I caught up with him at each traffic signal and he just sat in his car cooling his heels. No matter how fast he drove, he lept getting stuck at the next traffic light. He had a couple of narrow misses as he dodged buses and a few two wheelers.

I think that those who have a T-Bhp sticker on their vehicles should be aware that they are being watched by others and not drive with reckless abandon. I do not have the stickers (hope to get them soon) but I will be extra careful on the road once I have them.

Cheers,
gpa

[amitoj]

We can come up with dozens of do's and dont's, put umpteen safety stickers on our vehicles, take tens of pledges to be better drivers, but nothing will improve until there is proper law enforcement.

Originally Posted by muralisk

Let us be clear that without policing, there is no society in this world that would follow 100% rules as they are supposed to. People in developed countries follow rules because they know that they are being watched and any violation is dealt with penalty right there. Until we have such a system in place, we cannot improve the overall condition.

[mayjay]

Originally Posted by amitoj

We can come up with dozens of do's and dont's, put umpteen safety stickers on our vehicles, take tens of pledges to be better drivers, but nothing will improve until there is proper law enforcement.

You have summed it up pretty well there. People drive rashly because they can get away with it. Of course its not just bad driving that one can get away with in this country. I think one of the major contributing factors to accidents are poor roads themselves (from the title I thought the thread was on road condit
ions ).

There have been many instances when I have had to brake suddenly or swerve because of the sudden appearance of a deep crater in the road, increasing the probability of an accident (Now I've wizened up enough to just clench my teeth and drive through such things, to the detriment of my car's underpinnings).

The blame lies with corrupt contractors and authorities who know they can get away with it. So much so, that even in the capital of the country one finds even major roads like the ring road in a pathetic state in many places. Potholes, uneven surfaces, bumps, sudden dips are all par for the course.

Until the day when all those concerned with road safety - project implementers, regulators and users alike are held accountable, we'll continue to see dismal safety standards on the roads.

[Sawyer]

The truth of the matter in this, as well as all other things in life, is that the only thing that I can change is me. The only person that I can truly hold accountable in an effective manner, is me. What is my responsibility in all of this? Directly, when I am on the roads. Indirectly, in allowing the creation and maintenance of the environment in which I live.
We are very well versed these days with my rights and others' responsibilities, I notice. Surely, this should be flipped around if we are to build a better place to live in? If not fully, at least to the extent of putting my responsibilities above my rights?
And extending the arguments about enforcement, one could then say that it is enforcement that keeps me from theft and murder too.
What is that I can do to change this culture on our roads today? What can this community do to change this culture?
Any responses to this question?
From members of the community that calls itself the definitive Indian car community?

[NFS2024]

Originally Posted by muralisk

We all can brain storm and come up with the ten things that are mandatory for every driver to follow. People on this form will by and large stick to them. Will that bring about the change we all want? Not sure and probably not. For a change to happen, we need to target the bottom of the pyramid and not the top.

The real challenge - how are we going to get all the other drives to follow simple rules.

Let us be clear that without policing, there is no society in this world that would follow 100% rules as they are supposed to. People in developed countries follow rules because they know that they are being watched and any violation is dealt with penalty right there. Until we have such a system in place, we cannot improve the overall condition.

I personally feel that we are trying to re-invent the wheel here by coming up with new rules. As I see, we have all the rules that we need to make our roads safe, and all that is missing is enforcement.

1. I think that's absolutely bang on ! We can sit here and discuss till eternity and try to educate the masses for as long as we want. But that will not bring the changes we want.

2. One more unique feature to Indian cities is the humoungous numbers of 2 wheelers and 3 wheelers. Take out these 2 wheelers, 3 wheelers and also a sizeable number of 4 wheelers from the city traffic through a great public transport (Metro rails, buses, taxis etc) and i feel 70% of the taffic problems in our cities will be solved.

Nothing else can solve the traffic mess in our cities and if we implement the above two i do not see any reason why we cannot achieve what we want.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by NFS2024

2. One more unique feature to Indian cities is the humoungous numbers of 2 wheelers and 3 wheelers. Take out these 2 wheelers, 3 wheelers and also a sizeable number of 4 wheelers from the city traffic through a great public transport (Metro rails, buses, taxis etc) and i feel 70% of the taffic problems in our cities will be solved.

Nothing else can solve the traffic mess in our cities and if we implement the above two i do not see any reason why we cannot achieve what we want.

Are you willing to be one of those taken out?!
Japan is one of the densest places in terms of population per inhabitable square mile. They have realized that the way for many people to live together in close contact is by practicing the highest level of courtesy to each other - that is the core reason for all the bowing and even the musical toilets.
Any lessons there for us on the roads?

[Sawyer]

Just to put this in context - 300 people die everyday in India because of road accidents, and this does not make news. It is like a 747 crashing with all dead on a daily basis.
Compared to this, what is the big deal about swine flu, that has got us all in tizzy??!!
I know that this can lead to a pandemic etc etc, but the point is no one talks about the toll on the roads. 300 people by violent and unnatural causes a day, is like more than ten every hour! As this is written someone's life is being smashed out of him/her, most likely. Compared to this, even the tsunami was no big deal, maybe a few weeks of road accidents, that's all. And death was relatively painless and quick in that, compared to life leaking out on the roads or enroute to hospitals in shoddy ambulances.
Is there anything at all the definitive Indian auto community has as a responsibility to do about this shameful state of affairs in which we dominate the world?
Do TBHPians have the character and the will to adopt a code for driving on the road that they will rigorously adopt - UNPOLICED?! To be the change they want to see?
That of course is if we want to be leaders and not live the usual Indian critical spectator role that we excel in as a nation.
Or maybe this is the one population control measure that can be counted on.

[hvkumar]

Some of the things I do:

In the City:
- Always maintain lane discipline, blinking my indicators whenever I want to do a lane change
- Stop before the white lane at signals so that pedestrians can cross where they should
- Do a lot of anticipatory braking
- Keep a very safe distance from the car ahead
- In narrow roads, drive in one lane and not squeeze through the narrow left side

In the Highway:
- Drive fast, but keep a sharp eye on the road and a strong hand on the wheel
- Avoid overtaking from the left in conventional 2-lane highways
- Always give enough room for the car ahead to complete his overtaking manouevre instead of following him blind
- Judge speeds of oncoming vehicles (depending on the vehicle brand, type, its actual road speed) before attempting overtaking in 2-lane roads
- Keep an eye out for wrong-side drivers
- Slow down when I see a truck blinking right indicators even though he may be signalling me to overtake him
- No fog lamps and extra headlamps, they can be dangerous for the oncoming vehicle, I manage with my stock headlamps without any extra accessories or powerful bulb fittings
- Dip headlamps without fail
- Never dare anyone on the highway, never race with anyone to prove any points

[Sawyer]

I am sure that we can cull out a top ten best practices on a prioritized basis, that will include a lot of what you have just posted more than once on this thread, thanks for that btw!
The question I have is can one make the observance of this list an essential part of being a TBHPian? With or without a sticker on the car. Whether policed or not.
Or do we just want to moan and groan at which we excel - about the politicians, police, the RTO, governance -anything and everything, except what I can do to make a difference.

[gpa]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

Some of the things I do:

hvkumar,

Hats off to you on you driving etiquette. I am truly impressed buddy!

I am a defensive driver myself and my driving style is akin to most of the things you mentioned both for in the city and on the highways.

Some things that I follow myself are:
- Always give someone ample amount of time to move over before flashing headlights
- Don't slow down to see if there is a dead body at an accident site.
- Don't text message while driving! I do admit that I sometimes use a bluetooth headset to take any urgent office calls. I pull over if the call is going to be for more than a minute, but as a rule, I don't talk on the mobile when driving bluetooth headset or not.

A few more ponderables

I have started to notice that there are more and more drivers out there that feel as though they are the only car on the road and everyone should bow down to their automotive presence, especially if they own a powerful/big vehicle.

What gives people the right to speed up behind you and start flashing the headlights like a mad person so you get out of their way? If you were walking in the mall behind someone, would you start screaming at the back of their head to move? Of course you wouldn't, its just not proper etiquette! So why shouldn't normal rules apply to those behind the wheel?

If all of us make a conscious effort to follow basic etiquette on the road, we will find ourself being a much more likable driver on the road.

Cheers,
gpa

[sriku]

Originally Posted by gpa

If all of us make a conscious effort to follow basic etiquette on the road, we will find ourself being a much more likable driver on the road.

I am a firm believer in defensive, predictable and sane driving. I practice it every time I turn the key. There are always situations when I am forced to bypass etiquette and give in to rage. Simple example, the taxi who does not give way on the fast lane, even when honked, flashed at. The auto who cuts in to the fast lane then takes an illegal u turn without any signal. The bus drive who overtakes someone on the lane to your left while almost side swiping you and forcing you too close to the divider. Some years back, I would meet these provocations with some dose of my own, but after some thought, I've realised that its pointless, and totally unsafe. So I carry on as if nothing happened. Listening to Mozart's violin concerto's certainly helps. I'll help this initiative by doing nothing rash/aggressive/unsafe on the roads I travel. I can't see what else I can change. I'm not going to preach to those who won't listen, clearly they will not accept any advice. The only cure sadly, are horrible consequences for their actions. In time, some will learn, others won't be so lucky.

Cheers,

Cheers,

[straightdrive]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

.........Is there anything at all the definitive Indian auto community has as a responsibility to do about this shameful state of affairs in which we dominate the world?
Do TBHPians have the character and the will to adopt a code for driving on the road that they will rigorously adopt - UNPOLICED?! To be the change they want to see?...........

Originally Posted by Sawyer

..............The question I have is can one make the observance of this list an essential part of being a TBHPian? With or without a sticker on the car. Whether policed or not.........

Sawyer, not sure if I've understood your question fully. Are you asking each TBHP member to adopt defensive and safe driving practices and stick to them without being influenced by the large number of road users whose driving is neither defensive nor safe? Or do you mean that TBHP as a community should come up with a code for driving safe and ask its members to adopt it and consider it a requirement of being a Team BHPian?

Either way, it will ultimately rest on the individual. But if you mean the second way, it seems a good idea. Though TBHP obviously can't enforce such a code, an appeal from them will have more persuasive power than from a single member in a single thread which all other members may or may not see. You would probably need to get in touch with the moderators to make a start and I will be glad to lend a hand to help this take off.

Appreciate your effort, both in raising this topic and in keeping it alive. As someone mentioned sometime back, the thread on accident pics which deals with the other side of the same coin, gets much more views - that's human nature.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by gpa

more and more drivers out there that feel as though they are the only car on the road and everyone should bow down to their automotive presence, especially if they own a powerful/big vehicle.

Agree with you on this. Especially SUV owners who brag that everyone will now get out of their way. Its silly if you think that a Safari owner has more of a right to the road than an M800 owner and that everyone must give way just because its a bigger vehicle. This horrible principle applies on a wider scale. Pedestrians are as good as invisible. Two wheelers barely get recognition. Autos and small cars are so so. SUVs and small trucks get some real presence. And buses and trucks drive as if they're blind.