The ABS discussion thread

[mayankk]

ABS must for all new heavy vehicles, tempo trucks within a year
http://toi.in/lnC2-Z

[GrammarNazi]

Originally Posted by mayankk

ABS must for all new heavy vehicles, tempo trucks within a year
http://toi.in/lnC2-Z

I'd say given the way heavy vehicles are used, overloaded, and seeing their balded tyres, TCS is also extremely important. It may be difficult and a bit expensive to implement, but its definitely required. Next stage of improvement must include that.

[Trust_In_Thrust]

Recently i came to know better ABS works on higher frequecy and are expensive to implement compared to bare bone ABS.

[hrman]

Originally Posted by hrman

On a flight from Kochi, I had a very interesting chat with my co-passenger ,a gentleman who works for Bosch and is the R&D head for their ABS testing division.

2. Bosch is lobbying to make ABS mandatory on cars manufactured in India. However, car manufacturers and the government are not too supportive, so its more like a lone battle being fought by them.

5. Cost of ABS for a car to the manufacturer is in the region of Rs.6000/- per car. Thats right . Rs.6000/- only. I wonder why are manufacturers not including this in all variants across models.

When we pay so much for a car, why don't manufacturers provide some basic proven safety features for the buyer? Sigh..

I had quoted the above and re-ignited this thread.

Originally Posted by mayankk

ABS must for all new heavy vehicles, tempo trucks within a year
http://toi.in/lnC2-Z

And today, I see the above.The last sentence of the article also mentions about how it may be made for four wheelers too. Good that somewhere someone is making efforts in the right direction.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by mayankk

ABS must for all new heavy vehicles, tempo trucks within a year
http://toi.in/lnC2-Z

At last someone there is sitting up and taking notice. Of course in saying "It will help reduce accident rates since brake failure is a serious issue for heavy vehicles. At a later stage, there can be similar rules for four-wheelers too" the ministry official did not display any semblance of knowledge of the whys and wherefores!

He expects ABS to be a self-healing brake system? And he has no clue that human error / bad driving practices is behind most loss of life in skidding / not-braking-on-time accidents. Those numbers are far larger for "Four-wheelers" than those for transport vehicles.

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

I'd say given the way heavy vehicles are used, overloaded, and seeing their balded tyres, TCS is also extremely important ...

Interesting. How / why?

[9thsphinx]

Question.

Many base model SUV's/Crossovers come without ABS/EBD/BA. If you move higher up the variant, the ABS package then becomes a standard fitment. Now, if the so-called heavier vehicles and their base editions are missing ABS, can the buyer to some extent compensate the ABS/EBD/BA setup by upgrading to fatter tyres (205 > 215 > 225 etc.), if required.

I've also read elsewhere that some buyers specifically opt out of the ABS package while buying new cars (depending on where they live and the weather condition).

[saket77]

Originally Posted by 9thsphinx

I've also read elsewhere that some buyers specifically opt out of the ABS package while buying new cars (depending on where they live and the weather condition).

Don't know but could be, since ABS may increase stopping distance on ice, sand and other slippery surfaces. Also, many cars have the ABS on/off switch, where one can turn off the ABS feature. I believe that there is none with this feature in India.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by 9thsphinx

if the so-called heavier vehicles and their base editions are missing ABS, can the buyer to some extent compensate the ABS/EBD/BA setup by upgrading to fatter tyres (205 > 215 > 225 etc.), if required.

Fatter tyres does not equal more grip/better grip. They will also not help compensate for the absence of ABS.

The only option is to practice 'manual ABS' - pressing and releasing the brake pedal to avoid a lockup. As expected, this is tricky to do under normal circumstances, let alone in an emergency.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

Fatter tyres does not equal more grip/better grip. They will also not help compensate for the absence of AB.

While wider tires cannot compensate for the lack of ABS, they certainly increase grip levels thereby reducing braking distances, improving high speed control and hence safety.

However, tires must not be upgraded without proper research since they impact a lot of other components.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

While wider tires cannot compensate for the lack of ABS, they certainly increase grip levels thereby reducing braking distances, improving high speed control and hence safety.

However, tires must not be upgraded without proper research since they impact a lot of other components.

I'd have to partly disagree. Wider tyres do not automatically equate to more grip.

If you replace a Michelin Primacy tyre of 175 mm width with an MRF ZV2K of 195 mm width, you will have lost grip, due to the differences in compounds, despite the extra rubber on the road.

I say 'partly disagree' because I believe my comment above ties into your statement about researching upgrades.

To summarize:

• The quality/softness of tire compound makes more difference to grip, than width alone.
• Its quite possible to keep the tire size the same, but improve grip by going in for better quality rubber (probably at the cost of higher wear)
• One case where it makes sense to go to wider tires is when the manufacturer provides undertyred cars, for reasons of cost/mileage.

We digress a bit, there's a wealth of information on this thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...-your-car.html

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

If you replace a Michelin Primacy tyre of 175 mm width with an MRF ZV2K of 195 mm width, you will have lost grip, due to the differences in compounds, despite the extra rubber on the road.

My statement was very simple.

A wider tire offers better grip and thereby increases safety to some extent vis-a-vis a narrower tire keeping all the other things same.

Hope this clarifies.

OT: This thread is going OT and hence this is my last post on this topic here.

[Harish.Krovvidi]

Originally Posted by saket77

Also, many cars have the ABS on/off switch, where one can turn off the ABS feature. I believe that there is none with this feature in India.

If i remember the sonatas use to have TCS and ABS on/off option on the 2.7 V6 AT and the Embera 2.4L AT and Transform AT. Not sure of the non AT's as i never owned them.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by saket77

Also, many cars have the ABS on/off switch, where one can turn off the ABS feature. I believe that there is none with this feature in India.

Really? I never heard of that. Which cars in which countries offer that?

I have driven in a car where you could switch the ABS on/off, but that was a special modification as the car was used for driver training and you could experience difference braking techniques on a test track.

Never heard of that being offered on regular road going cars?

Jeroen

[SirAlec]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Really? I never heard of that. Which cars in which countries offer that?

I have driven in a car where you could switch the ABS on/off, but that was a special modification as the car was used for driver training and you could experience difference braking techniques on a test track.

Never heard of that being offered on regular road going cars?

Jeroen

Its not ABS switch, but traction control switch on expensive cars. To have more fun, like drifting etc.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

Its not ABS switch, but traction control switch on expensive cars. To have more fun, like drifting etc.

That makes more sense. I can switch of the traction control on my cars, but not the ABS. Thanks for the clarification

Jeroen