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Originally Posted by DerAlte 1. Don't lump normal surface braking with off-roading braking - they are not comparable in the context of ABS |
Dear friend,
I'm talking about the off-road situations caused by vehicles running off the road in accident situations and I'm not talking about situations where JeepThrills guys spend their weekends. I have not learnt this based on my experience but from whatever I read thru such threads and internet so some of the points may not be 100% correct but in this case the high level points that I'm trying to make is correct is my guess. Points like,
- Humans cant simulate ABS
- ABS increases braking distance to provide you steerability/control
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Originally Posted by DerAlte 2. "slush/ice/loose surface, its not useful" - Incorrect, ABS actually reduces braking distance on such surfaces as compared to locked-wheels braking. Not sure what you mean by "loose surface", but gravel (with hard under-surface, like gravel on dry packed earth or road) is the only one where the braking distance could be larger (not always true, depends on what is below the gravel) |
- "Incorrect, ABS actually reduces braking distance on such surfaces as compared to locked-wheels" <<< seems to be incorrect. With ABS the deceleration is slightly greater on such surface and hence increased braking distance. We are not talking about wet roads here, ABS is useful on wet roads for sure.
- Again, this is based on what I read, we have Tanveer also commenting based on his experience that confirms what I have read is correct.
- This is what I read from wikipedia and other research papers and its easy to digest without learning physics/maths - Not from my personal experience again, just based on what convinced me so far, if someone can prove otherwise, I'd love to learn the new technology you are talking about.
"In gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quicklyIn gravel, sand and deep snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly"
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte 3. "its not activated when during such siuations" - where did you get this from??? It is incorrect to automatically / conditionally 'disable' systems like ABS - for ANY reason other than off-roading, which it is not designed to cater to. What would be the difference between off-roading and bad city roads w.r.t. ABS? Nothing, if you know the physics and maths of ABS. |
Ok, here my point is about the evolution of technology. As we discussed earlier about the slush/icy surface where its not so effective and few more situations, technology is evolving to take care of such situation to make braking more effective. Cars provided with 'off-road' or turn off ABS switch is for the same reason and we are planning to go next level by automating the function of this "off-road" switch or eliminating it altogether.
- The evolution I'm talking about is 'brake assist', 'traction control system', 'emergency brake assist', 'brake distribution system' and finally ESP. I consider all of them as an extension to ABS. Lets not go by the name ABS but consider it to be 'enhanced braking systems'
- Now we use more sensors compared to conventional ABS systems, the system doesnt just measure the deceleration ratios on your wheel but also measures the direction taken by the car is not indicate the one taken by driver's steering weheel which is ESP (an advanced version of braking system to me if you dont stick to the different names (ABS etc) provided by manufacturers).
- Not sure which off-road situation you are comparing with the bad road situation here (JeepThrills or run-off-road situation during crashes). Either ways they are different categories and surfaces for me from speed, braking and vehicle control perspective, this may lead to some more discussions (and yes, some physics and maths too).
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Originally Posted by DerAlte In panic situations, no matter HOW MUCH you know of the internals it will not help you out of danger. What actually works is good driving habits (prevention) and safety training (conditioning) - it conditions one's mind to have the correct reaction to a situation. Like, on a sideways skid, take foot off gas pedal, turn-to-lock in the direction of skid, back to normal and accelerate - in about 2 seconds WITHOUT pressing clutch or brake pedals. And not trying things like pulse-the-brake-pedal-as-fast-as-one-can! |
- I agree with you on this, my point was in similar direction. What i meant was ,, internals == how to pump brakes == good driving habits!! Good to have them on top of the knowledge of tech systems. So far, technology is not replacing good driving habits, so we need them for sure.
Like I said, its not based on my personal experience (as Tanveer could immediately comment based on his) but based on something I read from wiki and reference articles, I also read that vehicles with ABS and such advanced assist technologies are driven rashly, that point alone reduced the % of effectiveness of such systems which should purely be about the drivign habits you are talking about!