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Old 29th October 2010, 12:15   #16
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Default I agree to disagree

I confess I didnt know much about A pillars and the regulations regarding their thickness. It's been an eye opener for me.

What I still dont buy is that despite these regulations, the A pillars can be erected more towards the sides instead of front. This will require:
>Bending of the glass
>Doors to be smaller

The fact that some car manufacturers, despite the new regulations still leave room for a good visibility clearly shows that there is an intelligent design and there is a poor design. Technically you can learn to drive a car even if you have too look through a 2 by 2 feet windscreen.

What I wish to say is that Corolla and Jazz designers bothered to think of the driver. Maruti didnt. A pillars or not.

But I thank everyone who contributed to enhancing this knowledgebase. Coming from a guy who had no clue of A pillar design this thread will, I am sure enrich the knowledge base of many drivers for whom driving is more than merely a 'transport' activity.
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Old 30th October 2010, 21:16   #17
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I have faced this problem in my Santro. The same also exists in i10, and as people have posted earlier, it's common for all the modern cars (maybe with the exception of a Sumo). I remember I had difficulty taking a 90 degree right turn when I test drove the Sumo Grande, not because of the A-pillar, but because of the gigantic mirror outside.

I have developed a habit of peeking out whenever I am taking a sharp right, and I tend to be a little extra cautious and alert in such turns.
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Old 30th October 2010, 22:27   #18
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Having driven M800 , WagonR , Ritz and Figo , I would say that figo offers the best visibility and also you can see the bonnet line clearly. In addition, the precise steering makes it the best car in tight traffic conditions.
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Old 6th November 2010, 08:24   #19
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Isn't it a matter of adjusting position (tilting your head) while driving.

Tell me one thing, in your M800, if someone is seated in the co-passenger seat (in a specific position, with the seat pulled back a little bit), doesn't that person obstruct your visibility to the left completely while taking a left turn?

Happens in my zen! In fact, the co-passenger adds to the left B-pillar and cuts out total visibility (in the situation mentioned earlier).

I wouldn't call this a design flaw!
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Old 6th November 2010, 09:14   #20
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1) Cab forward designs have those thick, and long A-pillars. You just cant get away from it. The aerodynamics, placement of windscreen and safety regulations made things this odd.

2) None of the cars you mentioned had their visibility decreased because of engine change. The A-pillar is rarely changed as its a very critical member when it comes to safety. Most of the times when some minor cosmetic change is done, A-pillar overall remains unaffected because changing that design would mean a lot of work and resources. The person gave you wrong info.
If this the were that because of engine fitting changes had to be done, then why Alto feels better ? The A-pillar design is not changed in Estilo or Alto.

3) Its tough to get similar view one gets in 800. So you will have to get used to it. This A-pillar generally is a problem in most of the new cars.
We have 800, Baleno and recently purchased Wagon R CNG. Yesterday I did a trip of 500 kms in Wagon R and the A-pillar effect was visible, but I got used to it quickly. Its more about matter of practice

4) Other thing is that the front windscreen is mounted higher and dashboards have also got higher placement, for eg. Ritz and A-star.

I am yet to come across a car that offers as overall visibility as M800 ( except Omni ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The safety in newer cars like Swift, Ritz, i10 etc has taken a giant leap if we compare them to cars like Maruti 800, which does even have the crumple zones.
Maruti 800 has crumple zones. but they are obviously not designed for current safety norms. This is against popular belief that M800 does not have Crumple Zones.
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Old 7th November 2010, 12:30   #21
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For people who are used to drive in M800 amby's etc the lack of visibility of the bonnet,A-pillar blindspots of new gen cars are a total irritant.My Dad used to say that he cant see the bonnet while we test drove the Spark,Estilo(was a no-no for him),Xing.ultimately we bought the Xing cos we felt that it was the better one among the lot, though he had to sit upright every time a corner came or had to park etc, he soon got used to it and adjusted himself.Considering that he used to drive Standard Herald, amby's and Omni all of which offered good frontal view.My point is that you buy a car which u feel is the least irritant among the lot and spend some time getting used to different seating positions and you will adapt soon enough to ride it like an M800!
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Old 8th November 2010, 01:00   #22
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Default The A Pillar syndrome

My experience with the A pillar syndrome is quite magnified in my Indica Vista. Have grown used to it now as i have to bob my head on either side of the pillar to check for motorcyclists who seem to appear out of nowhere!! Esp when negotiating Right Handers in the Ghats. I too have an M800 and i know how you feel. Takes some getting used to, so persevere! All the best!

Last edited by .anshuman : 8th November 2010 at 01:03. Reason: Please do not quote an entire large post, it causes inconvenience to small screen and mobile users. Thanks
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Old 9th November 2010, 02:46   #23
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I didn't pay much attention all these days but today while returning home from office I was struck in traffic and got a chance to closely observe the A-pillar of my Lancer.

The Lancer's A-pillar is as slim as the Alto (from outside) and does not obstruct the view too much. However if you look side-ways i.e with your cheek touching the driver-side window, the Alto's pillar looks completely flat and neat, all the way straight till the windshield. But for the Lancer, it bulges inside like a trapezoid with it's narrow end facing the driver.

I think this design makes the pillar stronger without the need to make it any broader and thereby block more of the view. If the dated Lancer has such a nice design then why not the latest cars of today?? Has this got something to do with the width of the car? ....just my thoughts...

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Old 9th November 2010, 09:41   #24
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If you think the Estillo offers lesser visibility due to the thick A-Pillar design, then you must get to drive a Honda Civic or a Jazz. Invariably, you will find yourself craning your neck ahead just to see if you're going to miss something. The Civic's visibility from the driver's side (and the passenger's side, if you're a passenger) is hampered so much, that it gets very annoying, especially around round-abouts and sweeping-curves in the ghat-sections.

However, it does come with its advantages. The positives of a cab-forward design is that there is a lot of space liberated inside the cabin, thus giving you a sense of openness and an airy feeling. Not to mention, it makes the car more safe. the pillars are designed to absorb as much of an impact as possible, thus reducing possible injury to the occupants.

Everything has it's pluses and minuses. Learn to ignore the negatives or learn to live with them and enjoy the positives that it brings. If you learn to live with the negatives, it will only help in the long run, and you'll begin appreciate the design.

EDIT: P.S. when it comes to head-on and straight visibility, nothing beats the Jazz. It feels like you're sitting in front of a huge, wall-mounted, wide-screen, 3D LED/LCD television! The only hiccup is the A-Pillar, which comes in the way while making a turn.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 9th November 2010 at 09:45.
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Old 9th November 2010, 10:00   #25
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Quoting from my ownership thread.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...es-home-2.html


Quote:

...
The negatives
...
6. The A-Pillar gives a blind spot when turning right. This blind spot is there in Santro also, but the thick slope in Safari makes it more acute.
...


Quote:
Originally Posted by syravi View Post
...

The fact that some car manufacturers, despite the new regulations still leave room for a good visibility clearly shows that there is an intelligent design and there is a poor design. Technically you can learn to drive a car even if you have too look through a 2 by 2 feet windscreen.

What I wish to say is that Corolla and Jazz designers bothered to think of the driver. Maruti didnt. A pillars or not.
...
So true. Add TATA Safari and Hyundai Santro also to the list. I have observed blind spot in both. Got used to the Santro one. Getting used to Safari.

When making turns we can tilt our head see et all is fine. What happens if some lunatic jumps from that particular angle is a worry.

Last edited by druva : 9th November 2010 at 10:03.
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Old 10th November 2010, 16:05   #26
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Very true, the Safari has a thick A-pillar and to add to that, a large OVRM too. This combination forces you to crane your neck or sit upright especially while taking sharp turns or while negotiating roundabouts.

However, since you will get used to it pretty quickly and it becomes second nature, a car buying decsion should certainly not be based on just this one "blind spot" factor alone.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 18:21   #27
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Default On Eliminating the Driver side A-pillar blind spot

Hello Team,

I have looked up blind-spot related threads, but failed to locate this issue. I am sure everyone would have grappled with the sudden appearance of pedestrians or bikes hidden by the wide A-pillar, owing to their their size, matching angle of approach towards the car and position of driver's eyes.

The driver is required to keep moving his head on problem spots, to make sure that he is not going to hit anyone, as others assume that driver is omniscient and has 'omni-vision'.

Now, is there or can there be a device that obliterates this blind spot and makes the A-pillar, well, transparent? I have heard about the 360 degree vision in top version of Kicks and cameras on ORVMs activated on indicator flipping in New Civic. But is there any aftermarket fitment?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 19:11   #28
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Default Re: On Eliminating the Driver side A-pillar blind spot

Good topic discuss on the forum. I see the following solutions:

Transparent A pillar:
The challenge here is to maintain the structural rigidity. This shall need advances in the Material Science and their application will need to be viable. Sometime back, I had heard that Toyota was working on transparent A pillar.

A pillar moved little back:
If the A pillar can be moved little back (up to the rear edge of the present quarter glass) and the present quarter glass is merged with the windshield, we can avoid the blind spot. This looks more practical and viable.

Other than this, a camera is also a solution. But I haven't come across an aftermarket camera for this purpose. And anyway, there is no substitute to moving your head to look carefully all over, IMO.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 23rd August 2019 at 19:12.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 20:43   #29
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Default Re: On Eliminating the Driver side A-pillar blind spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
A pillar moved little back:
If the A pillar can be moved little back (up to the rear edge of the present quarter glass) and the present quarter glass is merged with the windshield, we can avoid the blind spot. This looks more practical and viable.
And this is what we had with many old American cars. Another one that comes to mind is the Jeep FC. But the A-pillar & windshield designs have evolved, and we now have more aero-dynamics designs.

I think a transparent A-pillar would be pretty expensive, and would alter the integral structure of the frame (one continuous piece). A camera would be more practical, considering today's designs and relative ease of implementation.
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Old 26th August 2019, 11:13   #30
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Default Re: Blind Spots - New Cars, Road View and Driveability

What I had in my mind was a metaphorical transparent A-pillar, by means of a camera. much like the DRVM, but mounted to cover at about 45 degree clockwise from longitudinal axis.

I have driven Alto in past and A-pillar was never an issue and still experts maintained that Alto had a more rigid body, of course, than the M800.

These days, with the public swooning over 'SUVs', the high roof needs much better holding hence broader pillars. I go by the 'empiricality' that for a given top speed and handling control, height of roof of cabin has inverse proportion with the ride comfort and direct proportion with the amount of dead steel in the pillars and the under body.

Hence, such a camera based device should be made a standard, or at least desirable (optional), safety factory fitment.
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