[anandpadhye]

You can question the rules at the right level - in Delhi and Srinagar. So writing a letter to the ministry is good. I think I am very clear when I say that arguing with the army/ITBP at the checkpost is futile.

As long as you are clear that Army/ITBT do not make those rules, they just implement them, there is no reason for confusion.

BTW, writing individual letters asking for clarification on tourist permits may not yield anything as you probably have found out already. There are organizations in Jammu and Srinagar who are fighting a legal battle for the legitimate rights of the people of the state, especially Ladakh. Teaming with them and helping the cause will be much more fruitful.

[lordofgondor]

Back from a 15 day trip to Ladakh.

Feels great that I added Zanskar to the trip, thanks to Tanveer for that! The terrain and Drang Drung were awesome.

Got permits for Chushul without a fuss, though crossing the check post was another story. Managed to convince the person finally and took utmost care not to climb the bridge to China! Didn't mention Chumar in permit application but on casual inquiry got a negative from the person. Something definitely aint' right on the border there. Even the road from Tso Moriri to Chumar was closed to civilian traffic.

Never understood why Army confiscates cameras at Loma CP, cause quite frankly, Hanle was disappointing; BIG TIME! The terrain was uninspiring and I couldn't figure out, after quite some deliberation, as to what they're trying to hide. The whole time, I was trying to convince wife to forget the observatory so that we could turn back. In the end, wasted fuel worth 210 Km, that's all. The night skies at Nyoma were almost as good as Hanle. Got glorious views of various constellations & the Milky Way from there.

Was disappointed to see the state of Leh - Manali highway. Back in 2009, it would have given some interesting moments to a SUV but today, it'd be a dream run for even a low sedan. I would prefer to do it in my Maruti Esteem then my Storme any day. Never dreamed that I'd be so unimpressed with my dream road!!!

Throughout Ladakh, preparations for road work were in full swing, with work already started in few locations. I believe the road network to be a lot better in a months time. But one disturbing thing was the lack of snow in general. It was way less than we're expecting, after seeing so much snow around the same time in 2009.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by lordofgondor

Back from a 15 day trip to Ladakh.

Feels great that I added Zanskar to the trip, thanks to Tanveer for that! The terrain and Drang Drung were awesome.

+1 Even i did Zanskar last month. That place is so beautiful, only disappointment was the snow had melted off most of the glaciers coming down the road. I can only imagine how beautiful this place must have been in early months like April when the road opened.

BTW, How well did your car's tires cope up with the non existent road.

Hanle was disappointing; BIG TIME! The terrain was uninspiring and I couldn't figure out, after quite some deliberation, as to what they're trying to hide. The whole time, I was trying to convince wife to forget the observatory so that we could turn back. In the end, wasted fuel worth 210 Km, that's all. The night skies at Nyoma were almost as good as Hanle. Got glorious views of various constellations & the Milky Way from there.

Even i had no interest in Hanle, it was just the road to Kyun Tso from Hanle which took me there, and i loved it. Even the Beautiful and Remote Kyun Tso lakes were worth the effort.

Was disappointed to see the state of Leh - Manali highway. Back in 2009, it would have given some interesting moments to a SUV but today, it'd be a dream run for even a low sedan. I would prefer to do it in my Maruti Esteem then my Storme any day. Never dreamed that I'd be so unimpressed with my dream road!!!

Even Last year when i did this stretch in my Laura, it was quite easy, only challenging place was Rohtang due to the Slush and on-coming traffic making it impossible to follow the easiest path. This year even Rohtang has been tamed.

Except for some occasional landslides and bridge breakdowns, it is easily doable in any Sedan/Hatchback with normal GC, even in the month of June which was considered tough earlier.

But one disturbing thing was the lack of snow in general. It was way less than we're expecting, after seeing so much snow around the same time in 2009.

We were lucky in regards to the Snow, we encountered pretty decent snowfall at Baralacha la. Even the water on the road was frozen when we crossed, giving our car a few opportunities to kick in the AWD system, most other 2wd cars were dancing a little bit.

Then at Khardung la we encountered heavy snowfall, but the fun was lost due to hours long traffic jam at that high altitude.

[Objectiveman]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Even i had no interest in Hanle, it was just the road to Kyun Tso from Hanle which took me there, and i loved it. Even the Beautiful and Remote Kyun Tso lakes were worth the effort.

I guess they didn't take your camera or you would have gone back to Loma.

Rajesh

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by Objectiveman

I guess they didn't take your camera or you would have gone back to Loma.

Rajesh

Hi Rajesh, I have posted about all this here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route-...ml#post3163395

[Objectiveman]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Hi Rajesh, I have posted about all this here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route-...ml#post3163395

O yeah, I remember that. I have gone through the whole fascinating thread. I my planning my own second trip and just got jumbled up - overload of information I guess. How could I forget your PIL warning

My congratulations on standing up for your rights. Too many of us are cowed down by authority and don't question the mindless rules.

[urban_legend]

This is my third attempt to Ladakh. Attempt becuase each time ended up got stuck due to a variety of reasons. This time should be a go. Even the gods would give up scuttling my plans now.


Needless to say Tanveer great write up and perfect place to start any Ladakh trip planning.


As for my trip, plan to get my Quanto shipped from Mumbai to Delhi (thought that would give me more days in the hills) sometime in 2nd week of August is when i want to start. Me and wifey part of the team. Hope to be joined by couple of friends in their vehicles. But as i said we plan to take on the mountains with or without them.


Day 1
Delhi - Amritsar


DAY - 2
Stay at Amritsar (Visit Golden temple, wagah border etc.)


DAY - 3
Amritsar - Pathankot - Ramban - Banhal - Anantnag - Srinagar or extend to Sonamarg
(is it possible to reach Sonamarg on the same day?)


Day - 4
Srinagar or Sonamarg - Zojila - drass - Kargil


Day - 5
Kargil - Mulbek - Namik La - Fotu La -Lamayaru - Khaltse - Nimmu - Magnetic Hill - Leh (342 kms)


Day - 6
Rest Day - Vehicle service and acclamatising, Leh City tour - Hemis, Thikse, Shey - and Stok (Palace and Monasteries), Shanti Stupa etc.
(Get permits for Khardung La, Pangong Tso, Chang La, Tso Moriri, Tso Kar)


Day - 7
Leh – Khardung La - Diskit/Hunder


Day - 8
Option 1: Diskit/Hunder - Pangong Tso (need some help on the route here - is Wari La route advisable or via Shyok, Darbuk) - is there additional permits needed for any of this route.


Option 2: Leh – Shey – Karu – Shakti – Chang La – Durbuk – Tanksey – Lukung – Spangmik (Pangong Tso)


DAY - 9
Pangong Tso –Tangtse - Changla - Sakti - Karu - Upshi - Mahe - Chumathang - Sumdo - Tso Kiagar -Tso Morriri
(Is it possible to do it in one day?)


Day 10
Tso Moririri - Debring - More Plains - Pang - Lachulung La - Naki La - Gata Loops - Whicsky Nallah - Brandy Nallah - Sarchu
(can We stretch doWn to Jispa on the same day?)


Day - 11
Sarchu - Baralacha La - Darcha - Zing Zing Bar - Jispa - Keylong - Tandi - Koskar - Rohtang - Manali
(Is this possible in one day?)
(read somewhere that Rohtang Pass is closed on tuesdays for maintenance - is it true?)


DAY - 12
Rest Day - Manali - vehicle check before hitting the plains


DAY - 13
Manali - Delhi


Day - 14
Delhi - Udaipur


Day - 15
Udaipur - Mumbai


Does this sound doable? Happy to hear from all.


Thanks.
AJ

[tsk1979]

Slight change I would recommend
Day 1 - Start by 7am to Delhi, and push to Wagah border (9 hours from delhi in terms of driving time) - Stay night in Amritsar
Day 2 - Visit Golden temple in the morning, and push to Ramban
Day 3 - Easy drive to sonmarg making you fresh for the mountains

[bullrun87]

Originally Posted by urban_legend

DAY - 3
Amritsar - Pathankot - Ramban - Banhal - Anantnag - Srinagar or extend to Sonamarg
(is it possible to reach Sonamarg on the same day?)

Day - 11
Sarchu - Baralacha La - Darcha - Zing Zing Bar - Jispa - Keylong - Tandi - Koskar - Rohtang - Manali
(Is this possible in one day?)
(read somewhere that Rohtang Pass is closed on tuesdays for maintenance - is it true?)

Does this sound doable? Happy to hear from all.

I went to Leh last week with two of my friends in a chevy beat.
we did manali to sarchu in a day(took about 10 hours) and while coming back we did pehalgaum to delhi in a single day so I guess amritsar to sonmarg can be done in a day. But I have to add that we faced a lot of traffic jams.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by lordofgondor

Hanle was disappointing; BIG TIME! The terrain was uninspiring and I couldn't figure out, after quite some deliberation, as to what they're trying to hide. The whole time, I was trying to convince wife to forget the observatory so that we could turn back. In the end, wasted fuel worth 210 Km, that's all. The night skies at Nyoma were almost as good as Hanle. Got glorious views of various constellations & the Milky Way from there.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Even i had no interest in Hanle

May be it's an Astrophysics thing, you won't understand

Digpa-ratsa Ri, Hanle, was chosen as the prospective site for a National Observatory after a study of meteorological conditions over the Indian subcontinent, study of topographic maps of high-altitude areas in the Himalayan and trans-Himalayan regions, and a simultaneous reconnaisance survey of six candidate sites in September 1993. Further visits were made by scientists and engineers of the Institute in January and June 1994. The permanent site survey camp was established at the edge of Nilamkhul Plain, due north of Digpa-ratsa Ri in 1994 December. Detailed characterization of the site began in January 1995, and has continued till date.

The highest peak in Digpa-ratsa Ri is at an altitude of 4517 meters, and has been renamed Mt. Saraswati after the Hindu Goddess of learning. The surrounding Nilamkhul Plain is at an altitude of 4240 meters above msl. The range measures 2 km east-west and 1 km north-south with the top providing about half square km of flat area. The peak contains a few rocky mounds which have been levelled by a few meters. The location of the 2-m Himalayan Chandra Telescope (HCT) is to the east of the peak at an altitude of 4500 meters above msl.

The background of the early site survey and results are published in Bull. Astr. Soc. India, 24, 859-869, 1996, and Proc. XIX Meeting of the ASI. 1999 Feb 1-4. The extinction and night sky brightness estimates based on data obtained since the 2m HCT was released for observations in 2003 are published in Bull. Astr. Soc. India, 36, 111-127, 2008.

Reference: http://www.iiap.res.in/iao_site

[akp]

Originally Posted by urban_legend

Day - 4
Srinagar or Sonamarg - Zojila - drass - Kargil

You can possibly push a little bit and think of staying in Mulbeck or Lamayuru, though I do not have any idea about the stay options in those places. Kargil seemed a very congested place to me.

Day - 5
Kargil - Mulbek - Namik La - Fotu La -Lamayaru - Khaltse - Nimmu - Magnetic Hill - Leh (342 kms)

The distance from Kargil to Leh would be about 240 km, not 340.

DAY - 9
Pangong Tso –Tangtse - Changla - Sakti - Karu - Upshi - Mahe - Chumathang - Sumdo - Tso Kiagar -Tso Morriri
(Is it possible to do it in one day?)


Day 10
Tso Moririri - Debring - More Plains - Pang - Lachulung La - Naki La - Gata Loops - Whicsky Nallah - Brandy Nallah - Sarchu
(can We stretch doWn to Jispa on the same day?)

Both Pangong to Moriri (taking the route you mentioned) and Moriri to Jispa are doable in a day. You have to leave Pangong early; there are now roadwork going on at several places on the Upshi-Chumathang route, in some places they are blasting rocks to make the road wider and straighter - there might me a few stoppages in this stretch. Other than the patches where road work is going on, it is a beautiful drive going alongside a river.

Also, a note of caution about using the phrase `doable in a day' in those regions: normally you estimate the duration of travel looking at the distance and nature of the road surface, steepness etc. But what one does not take into account are the surrounding landscapes. You would feel like stopping every few meters (well, almost) and all your calculations of durations would go for a toss.

[parsh]

Originally Posted by urban_legend

As for my trip, plan to get my Quanto shipped from Mumbai to Delhi (thought that would give me more days in the hills) sometime in 2nd week of August is when i want to start.

That will definitely give you lease of 2-3 days, which I suggest you use for something else.

Day 1 Delhi - Amritsar
DAY - 2 Stay at Amritsar (Visit Golden temple, wagah border etc.)
DAY - 3 Amritsar - Pathankot - Ramban - Banhal - Anantnag - Srinagar or extend to Sonamarg
(is it possible to reach Sonamarg on the same day?)

Take TSK's advice seriously. It will be better to push off to Ramban to make it easily to Sonamarg the next day. We did Patnitop - Srinagar - Sonamarg decently leisurely with an hour of stopover at Dal Lake and reached Sonamarg late at night.

Day - 4 Srinagar or Sonamarg - Zojila - drass - Kargil

Day - 5 Kargil - Mulbek - Namik La - Fotu La -Lamayaru - Khaltse - Nimmu - Magnetic Hill - Leh

If you are going that far from Mumbai, you are sorely missing the beautiful Zanskar Valley. IMO, it must be on itinerary and a must visit to Darang Durung glacier. So if possible, factor in the time you saved from Mumbai to Amritsar to plan for this. You will need (as per what we managed to do)

Day 4 - Sonamarg - Kargil/Panikhar with time for Zoji La and Kargil War Memorial, KWM has a full fledged canteen now which serves damn good food.
Day 5 - Kargil/Panikhar - Rangdum - Penzi La - Darang Durung - Rangdum - Panikhar - Kargil reaching Kargil just in late evening if no landslides, blasting etc

Option 1: Diskit/Hunder - Pangong Tso (need some help on the route here - is Wari La route advisable or via Shyok, Darbuk) - is there additional permits needed for any of this route.

Option 2: Leh – Shey – Karu – Shakti – Chang La – Durbuk – Tanksey – Lukung – Spangmik (Pangong Tso)

Shyok route was still unadvisable as of 12 June 2013 and literally no traffic to/from that side.

Day 10
Tso Moririri - Debring - More Plains - Pang - Lachulung La - Naki La - Gata Loops - Whicsky Nallah - Brandy Nallah - Sarchu
(can We stretch doWn to Jispa on the same day?)

Try push to Jispa, if difficulty in staying at higher altitude Sarchu.

Day - 11
Sarchu - Baralacha La - Darcha - Zing Zing Bar - Jispa - Keylong - Tandi - Koskar - Rohtang - Manali
(Is this possible in one day?)
(read somewhere that Rohtang Pass is closed on tuesdays for maintenance - is it true?)

Manali is a place of jams, too crowded and costly unless you have any particular interest there. Can easily push to Kullu having decent cost effective Guest Houses right on the highway as the road is about to get out of (bypassing) Kullu.

DAY - 12 Rest Day - Manali - vehicle check before hitting the plains

Wasting a day there, no need to check vehicle too if everything has been eventless so far, IMO.

[urban_legend]

Originally Posted by parsh

That will definitely give you lease of 2-3 days, which I suggest you use for something else.

Take TSK's advice seriously. It will be better to push off to Ramban to make it easily to Sonamarg the next day. We did Patnitop - Srinagar - Sonamarg decently leisurely with an hour of stopover at Dal Lake and reached Sonamarg late at night.

If you are going that far from Mumbai, you are sorely missing the beautiful Zanskar Valley. IMO, it must be on itinerary and a must visit to Darang Durung glacier. So if possible, factor in the time you saved from Mumbai to Amritsar to plan for this. You will need (as per what we managed to do)

Day 4 - Sonamarg - Kargil/Panikhar with time for Zoji La and Kargil War Memorial, KWM has a full fledged canteen now which serves damn good food.
Day 5 - Kargil/Panikhar - Rangdum - Penzi La - Darang Durung - Rangdum - Panikhar - Kargil reaching Kargil just in late evening if no landslides, blasting etc

Shyok route was still unadvisable as of 12 June 2013 and literally no traffic to/from that side.


Try push to Jispa, if difficulty in staying at higher altitude Sarchu.

Manali is a place of jams, too crowded and costly unless you have any particular interest there. Can easily push to Kullu having decent cost effective Guest Houses right on the highway as the road is about to get out of (bypassing) Kullu.

Wasting a day there, no need to check vehicle too if everything has been eventless so far, IMO.

Thanks Parsh. Great help. Couple of questions:

(i) is it worth really heading to Zanskar only for darang durang?

(ii) Morriri - Jispa - is easily doable? because don't want to unnecessarily push and end up driving in the night. That is something i want to avoid.

(iii) How far is Kullu from Manali (in terms of time)? As you mentioned might as well stay the night at Kullu rather than Manali. Any good hotels would recommend?

Also is Jispa - Kullu is doable in one day? Again the idea is to take it slow in the hills and avoid night driving.

[urban_legend]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Slight change I would recommend
Day 1 - Start by 7am to Delhi, and push to Wagah border (9 hours from delhi in terms of driving time) - Stay night in Amritsar
Day 2 - Visit Golden temple in the morning, and push to Ramban
Day 3 - Easy drive to sonmarg making you fresh for the mountains

Thanks Tanveer. Planning the way you suggested. Also considering the Srinagar tensions, would not like to get stuck at Srinagar.

Any good hotels you could suggest in Ramban? Also the question on visiting Zanskar - your take?

[tsk1979]

Zanskar is an amazing region, esp around rangdum. Do visit. Regarding Srinagar.... it depends on your luck if the area is tense or not when you pass through.
As far as Ramban is concerned, lots of hotels in Patnitop/Ramban etc., area.