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Old 11th September 2020, 13:02   #16
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
All valid precautions taken care of during our waking hours. Travel to a hotel to spend the night. Now, how does one ensure anti-viral protection when one is unconscious for 6-8 hours?

Do we wear a mask to bed? How do we ensure the mask stays in place overnight?

Do we wash our hands with soap and water before going to bed?

How do we sanitize the pillows, mattresses, pillow cases, sheets and blankets/comforters? Do we spray everything down with alcohol? Or do we carry our own pillows etc.?

What if the previous occupant coughed and sneezed all over the room, and vacated the room half an hour before we walk in? Do we carry fumigation equipment to sanitize the hotel room? Or do we blindly trust the hotel to do the right thing?

If we enter a room vacated and cleaned 30 minutes before our arrival, there will be no airborne virus in the room so entering the room is safe.

Do carry a surface disinfection spray which can be sprayed everything (Sevlon, Dettol, CIPLA etc manufacture it now) including bedsheets and it will do the job in 15 minutes.

It is fair to assume that a COVID positive person staying in the hotel prior to us would be asymptomatic as a person with symptoms would not risk a vacation or travel and such person would not sneeze and cough all over the room.

Hotel risks closure of operation if a positive case is discovered so that will also take due care to sanitise the hotel and room specially frequently touched places.

Carry a sanitiser and sanitise hands after touching any surface.

Wear mask when within 10 feet of other people whose status is unknown and do not go even remotely close to a person who is not wearing a mask.

The biggest risk in consuming food as we have no way of establishing if cook and person serving have followed safety procedures.

I am planning to travel to my Himachal and these safety questions are also my concern but I also feel that if we decide to be safe, we can be safe.
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Old 11th September 2020, 15:51   #17
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

The whole idea is to minimize the risk. For some, by taking utmost precautions, the would think they have minimized the risk and can do a Holiday, but for some others, those precautions will be inadequate and they would think they are at risk. It is upon individuals and their risk taking abilities. There is no right or wrong in both those approaches.

In the whole chain of making a Holiday trip, there are many touch points which are vulnerable and they cannot be considered equal to a safety of your home.

So, if i would like to get a break, i would just take a short break by doing a max 3 hour road trip carrying some break fast, drive for 100 kms with family and come back. This can potentially avoid stay, public toilets and restaurants, be confined to your car, get down and enjoy some nature....and this can be done every weekend on different nearby routes

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Old 11th September 2020, 16:22   #18
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Agree with all those who think that going out and taking a holiday visiting hotels, dhabas, toilets enroute and taking a risk is not worthwhile. You not only endanger yourself but your family and all others who come in contact with you. It is very clear from a lot of statistics and research that though only 4 mill odd seem to be infected as tested by our rickety testing system but the actual infected is closer to 10 times that number or 40 mill. The danger is far more widely present than we think. I would recommend taking extreme care. It will have swept though India by end Dec 2020 latest. If you take doubling every 15 days then 128 x 4 million would have been infected by end Dec. That is 512 mill against 1300 mill population. This was assuming that the figure of approx 4 mill is accurate - which it is not.
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Old 11th September 2020, 17:52   #19
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Last weekend I went to lonavla.
We were a small group and booked an entire villa for 2 nights right besides pawna lake. It had a fully functional kitchen. Or you can take a food package with in house chef. Both Chef and caretaker were from a nearby village. And both the villa and the village fit in the category of far flung areas due to extremely poor road conditions.
Booking an entire property close to nature and far from crowd within 3 hrs of traveling one side shouldn't be a problem in my opinion.
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Old 11th September 2020, 19:59   #20
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
If we enter a room vacated and cleaned 30 minutes before our arrival, there will be no airborne virus in the room so entering the room is safe.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
Do carry a surface disinfection spray which can be sprayed everything (Sevlon, Dettol, CIPLA etc manufacture it now) including bedsheets and it will do the job in 15 minutes.
How much alcohol do we plan to spray out? It'll probably leave me drunk! In any case, these are surface disinfectants, so the deeper layers of pillows and mattresses would still have virus residues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
It is fair to assume that a COVID positive person staying in the hotel prior to us would be asymptomatic as a person with symptoms would not risk a vacation or travel and such person would not sneeze and cough all over the room.
An asymptomatic person is quite likely to leave virus on pillows etc. while sleeping - if he snores, for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
Hotel risks closure of operation if a positive case is discovered so that will also take due care to sanitise the hotel and room specially frequently touched places.
The hotel owner / chain would worry. The housekeeping staff couldn't care two hoots about following exact procedure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
Carry a sanitiser and sanitise hands after touching any surface.
Well, so we'd have to carry more cans of sanitiser than water bottles for the entire trip! Can we make do with just soap and water?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
Wear mask when within 10 feet of other people whose status is unknown and do not go even remotely close to a person who is not wearing a mask.
One of the best suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
The biggest risk in consuming food as we have no way of establishing if cook and person serving have followed safety procedures.
Probably the smallest risk, if eating cooked hot food. I'd perhaps avoid the salads and cold cuts at a restaurant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
I am planning to travel to my Himachal and these safety questions are also my concern but I also feel that if we decide to be safe, we can be safe.
Himachal wants tourists to be Covid-19 negative as tested by RT-PCR, no more than 96 hours before entering the state. OTOH Covid-19 is out of control in Rajasthan - ≥10x the number of cases and ~20x the number of deaths compared to the numbers in HP.
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Old 11th September 2020, 21:35   #21
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Agreed.

How much alcohol do we plan to spray out? It'll probably leave me drunk! In any case, these are surface disinfectants, so the deeper layers of pillows and mattresses would still have virus residues.

An asymptomatic person is quite likely to leave virus on pillows etc. while sleeping - if he snores, for example.

The hotel owner / chain would worry. The housekeeping staff couldn't care two hoots about following exact procedure.

Well, so we'd have to carry more cans of sanitiser than water bottles for the entire trip! Can we make do with just soap and water?

One of the best suggestions.

Probably the smallest risk, if eating cooked hot food. I'd perhaps avoid the salads and cold cuts at a restaurant.

Himachal wants tourists to be Covid-19 negative as tested by RT-PCR, no more than 96 hours before entering the state. OTOH Covid-19 is out of control in Rajasthan - ≥10x the number of cases and ~20x the number of deaths compared to the numbers in HP.
The purpose here is to pose safety tip that can help us all. Now, we all realize that best practise is to stay at home but that defeats the purpose of this thread. We all get bored and taking a road trip is better option than doing other silly things like dropping one's guard. It is in that context that I am suggesting some safety measures. There are no 100% acceptable SOPs that we can follow to be safe.

We can only minimize our risk.

And about food my assertion is not the rist about cooked food but people serving it and utensils that are used to serve it in as they are handled by people and this unknown poses a risk.

The risk is more from unknown factors and less from strangers as we can follow safety procedures. It is easier for me to not go close to a stranger than my own brother because of emotional attachment even if my brother ( unknown to me) is not following any safety measures while the stranger is. My point is that risk is posed more by people who are in a position to force us to drop our guard.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 11th September 2020 at 22:31. Reason: minimoze > minimize
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Old 11th September 2020, 22:05   #22
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
The purpose here is to pose safety tip that can help us all. Now, we all realize that best practise is to stay at home but that defeats the purpose of this thread.
I am waiting for the OP to explain what were the best practices he followed to sanitize / disinfect the surface(s) he and his family slept on.
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Old 12th September 2020, 09:28   #23
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Last week we (my parents and me) had to travel to a place which is 1000 km from our hometown. But due to the risks of staying in hotels and to avoid outside food, we have carried a small oven and a small gas cylinder along with rice and a few vegetables (only rice and boiled veg, we are Bengali). We cooked food by stopping at a road side empty place like truck drivers. Also we stayed in our car itself in the 2 nights and avoided public toilets and used fields for that purpose. (I know it is weird but still better than getting covid)I have purchased a few essential items for this trip. I think they can be helpful to others so sharing their links. I am not connected with any of the sellers.

1. 20 L water dispenser:
https://www.amazon.in/LIOMES-Automat...dDbGljaz10cnVl

2. 20 L water jar :
https://www.amazon.in/UVA-Liter-Bott...ter+jar&sr=8-1

3. Changing tent :
https://www.amazon.in/Inditradition-...ng+tent&sr=8-3

4. Also we carried dry food, dry fruits, fruits, curd etc. in numerous quantities to pass 3 days.

5. Inflatable car bed:
https://www.amazon.in/HSR-Inflatable...car+bed&sr=8-2

After taking all of the items mentioned above, my swift's boot was full upto the brim. But still managed somehow.

I look forward to experts for their opinions and suggestions on these safety precautions taken by us so that we can have a much safer journey next time. That will be helpful for others also.
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Old 12th September 2020, 10:54   #24
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

We have not travelled on a long road trip since the lock downs started. Frankly, I have done only 2 long road trips (Bombay to Goa and back) in my life. But we did travel down to Pawna a couple of weeks ago.

What precautions did we take:

1) Booked a self contained villa which would have only our family present for our stay. The villa had a 6 acre grounds - plenty of space to move around without contacting others
2) The agency we booked through had robust protocols for ensuring safety.
3) Booked from a Friday morning onwards - and insisted that the villa should be vacant form Thursday morning onwards to allow time for disinfection and reduce risk
4) Had a menu agreed upfront and had all vegetables sourced before our journey - so that the support staff did not have to leave the villa while we were there
5) Kitchen was reserved only for the staff - we could not enter - maintained separation between staff and us
6) The staff laid the table wearing masks - we are after they left. However, we did have a supply of hot rotis coming from the kitchen while we were eating
7) Wore masks or stayed out of the room while the cleaning staff were present
8) Kept windows opened while staff was present - avoided use of ACs (was not needed given great weather).
9) We did stop at the Khalapur toll rest area for a loo break - wore masks - was probably the highest risk part of our trip
10) Only outside food was coffee from Starbucks
11) Stayed away from crowded spots like Bushi Dam - fortunately, Pawna and the waterfalls near it were not crowded - so did go for some walks

If you think about it rationally, unless you are staying at home all day, the risk from a holiday is less than the risk from going to office for a week. Given the very low serious case rate for Covid, the overall risk is really low.

Will likely plan a Goa trip in the winter - May be open to staying in a good hotel then.
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Old 12th September 2020, 17:59   #25
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
How does one ensure anti-viral protection when one is unconscious for 6-8 hours?
Do we wear a mask to bed? How do we ensure the mask stays in place overnight?
Of course not.
a. You run the fan - open the windows, ventilate the room like mad. and chill.
b. You trust US scientists' insight that ALL COVID19 aerosols settle within 2 hours tops!
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973

Quote:
Do we wash our hands with soap and water before going to bed?
YES - hand sanitization every time we re-enter the room. Plus atleast I and the son are OCD about touching our nose/eyes only after sanitizing it. That eliminates the real vector - inadvertent nose digging!

Quote:
How do we sanitize the pillows, mattresses, pillow cases, sheets and blankets/comforters? Do we spray everything down with alcohol? Or do we carry our own pillows etc.?
Why should one?
Linen is auto sanitized when washed. Do note this is why I insisted on a good trusted hotel.

Even otherwise, any viral particles lying under my rear side, do not magically become aerosols that enter my nose.

Its an inanimate particle, let's not think it is an evil self-propelling monster that will find its way into our noses from any surface possible.

Quote:
What if the previous occupant coughed and sneezed all over the room, and vacated the room half an hour before we walk in? Do we carry fumigation equipment to sanitize the hotel room? Or do we blindly trust the hotel to do the right thing?
We trust science and a good hotel chain instead of imagining super unlikely paranoid outcomes. We just give the room a little time.

Worst case, sanitize it youself, leave it open and Check in - go for a walk. Whatever. Time works best!

This is what the most sensitive equipment can detect - its below the threshold that can infect humans.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973
How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19-surface-stability.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Sars-cov2 is thrown out by the infected in large numbers from excreta and urine. You can't disinfect a public urinal or toilet fully for obvious reasons.
Corerct - but let's just agree to disagree on my thesis that after ventilating the door like a super weirdo and wearing a N95/99 mask - I am within a manageable risk.

Quote:
The fact that doctors are catching the virus while taking maximum precaution by wearing full PPE and not going very close to patients
Yes - but they are surrounded by dozens of patients who are shedding the virus for hours over weeks.

Sorry the context is different as night and day. Let's agree to disagree on this point - the doctors' example (sustained repetitive exposure to dozens of cases) is simply NOT the same as me using a well ventilated barely used toilet for 5 min.

My risk equation still holds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RajeevSharma View Post
If we enter a room vacated and cleaned 30 minutes before our arrival, there will be no airborne virus in the room so entering the room is safe.
Thank you - agree almost verbatim!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashokabs View Post
If you take doubling every 15 days then 128 x 4 million would have been infected by end Dec. That is 512 mill against 1300 mill population. This was assuming that the figure of approx 4 mill is accurate - which it is not.
That math ignores our context here. The virus does not infect by math - it infects via aerosols and heavily contaminated surfaces - which is what my recipe takes care of.

Current growth rates are WAY below your claim: (and slowing)
From a stud analyst - https://mobile.twitter.com/karthiks/...08213011247106
Known case count stands at 4.66M; Doubling every 31days; Quadrupled in 52 days


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Probably the smallest risk, if eating cooked hot food. I'd perhaps avoid the salads and cold cuts at a restaurant.
Precisely chief!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Himachal wants tourists to be Covid-19 negative as tested by RT-PCR, no more than 96 hours before entering the state. OTOH Covid-19 is out of control in Rajasthan - ≥10x the number of cases and ~20x the number of deaths compared to the numbers in HP.
Just FYI - Raj population = 11x HP

Deaths depend on far too many case specific math which neither of us is competent of analyzing in the absence of first hand case data.

Considering much of HP is barely accessible villages, I would wager Shimla would be riskier than jaipur today


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
If you think about it rationally, unless you are staying at home all day, the risk from a holiday is less than the risk from going to office for a week. Given the very low serious case rate for Covid, the overall risk is really low.
Bang on - thoughtful process all through! thank you
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Old 13th September 2020, 14:43   #26
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

This was circulated by ICMR after a detailed survey.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/over...y-8805881.html
Please check the link and work out the maths from May till Sept and you will know how many are likely infected and asymptomatic today. The risk is from the higher prevalence and not from your precautions. The 4.6 mill today is just the tip of the iceberg.

However, please note that I am not objecting to your trip. That is your personal choice but just commenting that it risked exposing a lot more people that you would come into contact with subsequently in the unfortunate event one of your group got infected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashokabs
If you take doubling every 15 days then 128 x 4 million would have been infected by end Dec. That is 512 mill against 1300 mill population. This was assuming that the figure of approx 4 mill is accurate - which it is not.
That math ignores our context here. The virus does not infect by math - it infects via aerosols and heavily contaminated surfaces - which is what my recipe takes care of.

Current growth rates are WAY below your claim: (and slowing)
From a stud analyst - https://mobile.twitter.com/karthiks/...08213011247106
Known case count stands at 4.66M; Doubling every 31days; Quadrupled in 52 days
Unquote
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Old 13th September 2020, 18:45   #27
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BactaKleen : An easier way to sanitize our cars?

My Innova Crysta was due for a service hence i had to last visit the Toyota service center at Sanath Nagar. The only concern to me was getting the car sanitized before taking the delivery. Seeing my concern the service advisor had shown me the products which are being used to sanitize the vehicles.
It was performed by using a mist machine named - Bactakleen Ultra Mist.
As I reached home then started finding more information on this mist machine. Upon reading i found the product's ability to kill the novel corona virus using the particular solution namely Bacta shield Ultimate and Marvekleen. The products have been approved and tested by US FDA and SGS.

Will place an order soon, please share your reviews if anyone has an experience of the product.
In such difficult times it will be beneficial if we can sanitize the cars on daily basis without having to get our hands dirty!

Hence i am hereby sharing the link : https://www.bactakleen.com/

Shared in the interest of safety
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Old 13th September 2020, 19:59   #28
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Re: BactaKleen : An easier way to sanitize our cars?

I feel such products are just a gimmick to attract customers and money. I am not doubting the capability of the product to kill the Corona virus and other such virus'. However that's only once. What next ? Because the effect of the spray will last only for a few hours. Best is to use portable sprays available in the market, which can be sprayed every now and then. I may be wrong. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 15th September 2020, 14:13   #29
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

Can anyone share the link for any fogging machine or a dispenser which can be used to disinfect the hotel room as soon as we check in.I tried seraching but I am not confident on the results I got.Perhaps someone who has used one can share some insight.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:15   #30
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Re: How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19

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Originally Posted by inferno0297 View Post
It was performed by using a mist machine named - Bactakleen Ultra Mist.
To channel my internal doge:

Such branding, much wow - aap isko bhool jao chief!

This is Benzalkonium chloride. Super standard chemical sir.

Please buy your garden variety spray sanitizer and spray ONLY the key touch areas - handles, gear lever, steering.

Please don't bother to sanitize other surfaces - you are not entering a COVID care facility. To restate my point:

Consider the seat - any viral particles lying under my rear side, do not magically become aerosols that enter my nose.

Its an inanimate particle, let's not think it is an evil self-propelling monster that will find its way into our noses from any surface possible.

Worst case - leave the windows open for a couple of minutes after you get it from service. Don't overthink sir.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom View Post
Can anyone share the link for any fogging machine or a dispenser which can be used to disinfect the hotel room as soon as we check in.I tried seraching but I am not confident on the results I got.Perhaps someone who has used one can share some insight.
I am very happy with Tjori, which was one of the first companies to launch this, and manufacture it in a plant used by a very large FMCG company (as opposed to many unbranded mfrs):

https://www.tjori.com/p/sanitiser-spray-500-ml/88508/

I don't use the dettol types aerosol sprays which have <60% alcohol. I use them only on electronic items
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