[carboy]

Originally Posted by sharktale

My least favourite country was Italy

FWIW, I didn't enjoy Venice & Pisa that much. But Rome & Vatican was out of the world. My favourite places in the World. The tour guide for the Vatican was a local - a history teacher kind of woman who was outstanding. Even walking around in the evenings in residential areas of Rome was an experience. Just enter any random/unknown local church (where there no tourists, but only local residents who have come to pray) and it's more beautiful than anything I have seen before.

Leaning Tower of Pisa was a wasted day. In Venice, traveling by their Vaperetto (it's their local public transport on water) was more enjoyable than gondola ride. Of course, I am not sure if you could travel by a Vaperetto in a group tour kind of setting.

[sharktale]

Originally Posted by carboy

FWIW, I didn't enjoy Venice & Pisa that much. But Rome & Vatican was out of the world. My favourite places in the World.

Rome/Vatican was definitely better than Venice and Pisa for me too. The guide in Rome was pretty knowledgeable and I could connect with the scenes I had read in The Bible during my schooldays. But, just that I didn't feel the same way about Italy as a country after visiting than before in my dreams.

I guess the major issue with us that happened was, the heatwave had struck whilst we were approaching Italy in 4th week of June. So the temperatures were hovering around 38-40 degrees for a major part of the day, draining all enthusiasm.

[adimicra]

I enjoyed Venice a lot. I did not take Gondola but we spent the evening getting lost in the narrow lanes of Venice and bar hopping. One of the most memorable nights in Europe for me. Also, the views from the top of the tower and the mosaics of St Marks Cathedral were great as well. Apart from that, I enjoyed Rome and Vatican a lot. Florence and Pisa was kind of waste for me. However, roaming around the countryside and small medieval towns in Tuscany, Umbira regions like - Montecatini, Orvieto, Sienna, Assisi, Sam Gimigano was the best part of my Italy trip covering vineyards, olive plantations, wine tasting sessions. I will probably go there once more to cover the Amalfi coast or the Italian lakes in the north.

[dileep]

Folks, we are making a trip into Italy in December. Our base will be Milan from where we want to rent a car to travel south - Rome, Naples, Matera, Bari, San Marino and back to Milan.

https://goo.gl/maps/Lip6VcujbYhHSf7J9
a total of about 2000km in 7 days. We are a family of four so possibly it will be cheaper and more convenient to drive than to take trains/buses/flights.

I would request your advice about:

1. Where to rent a car?
2. What to be aware of when renting?
3. Any precautions to take while driving in Italy? (I've driven in Liberia which is a left-hand drive country but it was in 2015 and the car was a UN 4x4 Nissan Patrol.)
4. Any other suggestions/tips from people who might have done road trips in Italy.

Many thanks.

[chetan_l]

Originally Posted by dileep

Folks, we are making a trip into Italy in December. Our base will be Milan from where we want to rent a car to travel south - Rome, Naples, Matera, Bari, San Marino and back to Milan.

https://goo.gl/maps/Lip6VcujbYhHSf7J9
a total of about 2000km in 7 days. We are a family of four so possibly it will be cheaper and more convenient to drive than to take trains/buses/flights.

I would request your advice about:

1. Where to rent a car?
2. What to be aware of when renting?

Congratulations on your upcoming trip!

Regarding driving in Italy, my personal experience has not been great. First and foremost, while your Indian driving license printed in English is good enough for you to rent a car in many countries in Europe, you will NEED an International Driving Permit to rent a car in Italy. If others have had it easy, I guess they were lucky - because I had a legitimate booking but still the agency refused to give me my car at the time of pick up despite my earnest attempts. So, please go with your International Permit if you want to drive.

If you do want to rent, try any of the online car rental aggregators. I have used economycarrentals & europecar successfully in the past.

Originally Posted by dileep

3. Any precautions to take while driving in Italy? (I've driven in Liberia which is a left-hand drive country but it was in 2015 and the car was a UN 4x4 Nissan Patrol.)

Beware of narrow roads and absolutely nightmarish parking scenario in most cities as well as villages. You will spend a bomb in your parking fees, plus, you will invariably have to park very far from most points of interest. At times, you may have to park in a parking lot and then take local commute to reach POIs.

Also, the insurance charges are very steep in Italy - much higher than in neighboring countries. Plus, traffic violation fines are steep.

Weather in December is not ideal for road trips. I was in Italy last year from 1 Dec till 14 Dec and experienced icy-cold rain and wet weather on several days. Also, be aware that the daylight time will be quite short and you don't want to be driving in the dark to new cities! (But then if you have only one week, you cannot afford to miss the daylight to see the sights as well - Hobson's choice!)

Traffic is lot more chaotic than other European countries but that alone should not be a challenge to us Indians.
However, you need to completely familiarize yourself with all the driving rules of Italy - who has right of way, who has to yield, etc

Originally Posted by dileep

4. Any other suggestions/tips from people who might have done road trips in Italy.

Many thanks.

I guess you are a road trip fan. There is no other way to explain your wish to travel 2000 kms in 7 days in BEAUTIFUL Italy with the most mesmerizing cities, villages and countryside, where each destination deserves a separate visit on its own merit!

If you have only 1 week, I would ask you to reconsider the plan and reduce the sights.
I will personally recommend 4/5 days stay in Rome and maybe 2-3 days in Milan, plus a relaxed stay in each of the places you have listed. I will not dream of covering 7 cities in 7 days even if you hold a gun to my head (but maybe say "yes" if you are paying to cover my trip).

So, my suggestion/tip?: "Ditch the road trip plan - it is a super bad idea - and use the super fast trains and convenient public transport to visit Italy"


However, each traveler has their own taste and people like us can only state what works for us. So, it is your call finally. I will be happy to answer more specific queries if you have.

Another observation: While you have chalked out a road trip, you don't seem to be covering any great roads in the itinerary. I don't see you driving into the Alps, or going off the highway in the Tuscan countryside or driving on the (apparently scary) Amalfi coast. Any of these will require dedicated plans on their own. You seem to be using the road to just commute from A to B.

So, this is yet another reason to rethink and skip the car.

[Nonstop-driver]

People traveling to Venice in November might want to check the conditions there before arriving. Recently a late-season high tide has flooded a big part of the city with knee-deep water.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver

Recently a late-season high tide has flooded a big part of the city with knee-deep water.

More than one. It is getting worse and worse for poor Venice.

[Equus]

Dont rent a car in Italy or anywhere in EU region. There is excellent flight/rail connectivity which must be enjoyed. We visited France/Italy/Holland last april and within Italy we visited Rome/Venice/Pompei/Milan - skipped Florence/Naples (just the train to Pompei but did had pizza there!)
Milan is over-rated but Duomo + Rizotto is unbeatable combo. Also, we stayed in Hilton Milan which was a superb hotel too, making it fairly memorable.
Used Metro (subway) or Uber everywhere.

[woof]

Guys,

Need help and suggestions for my upcoming Euro-trip.

I am going to Nuremberg in Germany for a week for an official trip. Have stretched it by another 9 days to travel around along with my family. My flights have already been booked.

My itinerary is:
Day 1 - Delhi to Munich
Day 2 - Train to Nuremburg from Munich
Day 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - Meetings in Nuremberg during day time. I am free in the evenings.
Day 8 - My family shall land in Munich (they shall be arriving from delhi)
Day 13 - Flight from Munich to Helsinki
Day 16 - Return to Delhi from Helsinki

So, considering the above schedule, I am planning the following and need your help on the queries:
- Reach Munich on day 1 afternoon, stay at Munich for a night.
- Travel to Nuremberg from Munich in a train and reach by afternoon.
- I will be free mostly during the evenings (post 5pm) in Nuremberg. What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- On day 8, I will go to Munich and will receive my family at the airport.
- Planning to spend 2 days in Munich. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- Day 10 - nothing planned yet. Maybe will plan for Neuschwanstein.
- Day 11-12 - Will go to Salzburg, Innsburg & Hallstat. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- Day 13 to 16 - Will be in Helsinki. Planning to also visit Tallinn in Estonia. Are 3 days enough? What to do? What should not be missed?

Besides the itinerary, have few other questions:
- Have never stayed in a hostel. Are they good? Any recommended ones in Nuremberg and Munich?
- How to book train tickets between Munich & Nuremberg, and Munich & Salzburg?
- What will be the best mode of transportation within the cities?
- Any interesting place for the kids?

Looking for your inputs

[audioholic]

Some specific info from my side:

Originally Posted by woof

- Have never stayed in a hostel. Are they good? Any recommended ones in Nuremberg and Munich?

Depends upon whether you are staying alone or in a group. I have stayed in Hostels when I have travelled alone. The Meininger Hostel in Munich is pretty good for a hostel in terms of cleanliness but the rooms are pretty cramped with bunks all over. I have used them only when I needed a place just to crash and take a shower and nothing more than that. I have seen more spacious hostels in Prague, Budapest, Vienna but they were not that neatly maintained. These were typically used by me for a 6hr nap and a shower so anything longer I am not sure. If you are planning to stay with family then go with Airbnb homes. However please ensure you leave the place in perfect order when you check out, unless its a hotel/serviced apartment.

Originally Posted by woof

Guys,
- How to book train tickets between Munich & Nuremberg, and Munich & Salzburg?
- What will be the best mode of transportation within the cities?

For all train tickets in Germany(or rather Europe unless mentioned) you can use the Deutsche Bahn App - DB Navigator. It will help you find connections from anywhere to anywhere irrespective of mode of transport and also book tickets. Usually day tickets or group tickets are economical compared to single tickets and the more you opt for the economical it gets. Between Munich and Salzburg I feel Flixbus would be a cheaper option unless you get some super saver fare on DB. Flixbus typically starts from 5EUR per person whereas DB trains will be somewhere in the range of 20EUR. Time taken by both is more or less the same, around 2Hrs. Unless you want to specifically take a train ride, the bus is a better option. Same applies for Munich to Nuremberg as well, but if this is company reimbursable then you can choose the train itself.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by woof

- Day 11-12 - Will go to Salzburg, Innsburg & Hallstat. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?

Two days for these 3 cities is woefully inadequate. Are you planning to land and leave within these two days as well? If yes, that'll make it increasingly difficult.
First things first: Hallstatt, while gorgeous, recently had a major fire in Dec 2019. The city administration then requested tourists to avoid the city. Check the current state, but tbh, you can avoid this.


As for Salzburg or Innsbrucke, both are gorgeous cities where you can spend a week. But we are triaging now so:
Salzburg: Schloss Mirabell, Mozart House, Statsbrucke, Hohensalzburg Fortress, Mozartkugel Statue (Do try Mozartkugel: local chocolate)
Innsbrucke: Swarovski Crystal Place, Maria-Theresien Strasse, St. James Cathedral, Golden Roof (avoid this), and walk along the old town savouring local food (hope you eat non-veg), Nordkette Skyline Park: This might be closed due to snowfall in the coming month but if it isn't; the views are to die for from the top of the mountains.


In case you wish to take a drive, go visit the Grossglockner glacier near Salzburg. It is absolutely magnificent and beyond words. The drive there is like a paradise. Near this magnificent place, are also located Krimml waterfalls, the highest in Austria. You can spend a day here easily. There is Eagle's nest near Salzburg which is a sight in itself and warrants another full day. But you can avoid all this if you don't wish to wander off.
The most important rule: enjoy the local food

[batterylow]

Originally Posted by woof

Guys,


- Reach Munich on day 1 afternoon, stay at Munich for a night.
- Travel to Nuremberg from Munich in a train and reach by afternoon.
- I will be free mostly during the evenings (post 5pm) in Nuremberg. What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- On day 8, I will go to Munich and will receive my family at the airport.
- Planning to spend 2 days in Munich. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- Day 10 - nothing planned yet. Maybe will plan for Neuschwanstein.
- Day 11-12 - Will go to Salzburg, Innsburg & Hallstat. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- Day 13 to 16 - Will be in Helsinki. Planning to also visit Tallinn in Estonia. Are 3 days enough? What to do? What should not be missed?

Besides the itinerary, have few other questions:
- Have never stayed in a hostel. Are they good? Any recommended ones in Nuremberg and Munich?
- How to book train tickets between Munich & Nuremberg, and Munich & Salzburg?
- What will be the best mode of transportation within the cities?
- Any interesting place for the kids?

Looking for your inputs

My inputs:

Weather in Munich right now is pretty good and doesn't feel like winter.

But it is still a good idea to get sufficient winter clothing.

- Planning to spend 2 days in Munich. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?

BMW world and BMW museum.

Marienplatz.

Climb up the tower in the Olympia park.

Allianz Arena.

Frauenkirche.

Deutsches Museum.(It can take a full day to see)

If you want to be touristy, go to the Hofbrauhaus, however if you want to try the real deal I would recomment the Weihenstephan in freising.

- How to book train tickets between Munich & Nuremberg, and Munich & Salzburg?

The Deutsche Bahn app.

Flixbus tends to be cheaper most times, please carry a child seat if your kid is below 3 years old.

Travelling within Munich.
The ticket machines in the terminals ( either S/U/Tram/Bus) have english menus and you can choose the group/single day tickets based on the area in which you wish to travel. (Most places that you visit in Munich come under zone M).

The same applies for Salzburg and Innsbruck.

Salzburg and Innsbruck are both day trips from Munich and you can use the Bayern ticket to travel to Salzburg (But cannot use it for local transport).

[woof]

Originally Posted by audioholic

For all train tickets in Germany(or rather Europe unless mentioned) you can use the Deutsche Bahn App - DB Navigator. It will help you find connections from anywhere to anywhere irrespective of mode of transport and also book tickets. Usually day tickets or group tickets are economical compared to single tickets and the more you opt for the economical it gets. Between Munich and Salzburg I feel Flixbus would be a cheaper option unless you get some super saver fare on DB. Flixbus typically starts from 5EUR per person whereas DB trains will be somewhere in the range of 20EUR. Time taken by both is more or less the same, around 2Hrs. Unless you want to specifically take a train ride, the bus is a better option. Same applies for Munich to Nuremberg as well, but if this is company reimbursable then you can choose the train itself.

Great! Thanks - Flixbus sounds good.. will check it out.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Two days for these 3 cities is woefully inadequate.


As for Salzburg or Innsbrucke, both are gorgeous cities where you can spend a week.

The most important rule: enjoy the local food

Okay, thanks for the insights. I will try probably stick to 2 cities only for these two days.

Originally Posted by batterylow

My inputs:

Weather in Munich right now is pretty good and doesn't feel like winter.
...
...

I will be visiting in May 2020 - don't think it will be that cold during that time of the year. I will check out the places you have suggested - thanks for sharing!

[Zed]

- Any interesting place for the kids?

Looking for your inputs

If your kids are in the 3-10 age group and you decide to take them to Nuremberg, playmobile land is a nice play area with indoor and outdoor options.

For your evenings in Nuremberg: If you are interested in history, the documentation center (a museum of sorts) and the zeppelin field (walking distance from the museum) ought to be in your itinerary. Many iconic images of the Nazi era were set to the background of these locales in Nuremberg. Not sure what time the museum closes.

Feel free PM me if you have specific questions.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by woof

- On day 8, I will go to Munich and will receive my family at the airport.
- Planning to spend 2 days in Munich. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- Day 10 - nothing planned yet. Maybe will plan for Neuschwanstein.
- Day 11-12 - Will go to Salzburg, Innsburg & Hallstat. Is it enough? What to do? Which all places are recommended?
- Day 13 to 16 - Will be in Helsinki. Planning to also visit Tallinn in Estonia. Are 3 days enough? What to do? What should not be missed?

If you are on public transport, co-ordinating the same, and your stay plus sightseeing in 2 days wont work out. And if you plan to visit 2 cities in 2 days even then I would say, you would be running around to touch each point and wont enjoy at all. I would say pick one city. May be Salzburg.

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Two days for these 3 cities is woefully inadequate. Are you planning to land and leave within these two days as well? If yes, that'll make it increasingly difficult.

Agreed. Not possible.

First things first: Hallstatt, while gorgeous, recently had a major fire in Dec 2019. The city administration then requested tourists to avoid the city. Check the current state, but tbh, you can avoid this.

This is really sad to hear.

As for Salzburg or Innsbrucke, both are gorgeous cities where you can spend a week. But we are triaging now so:
Salzburg: Schloss Mirabell, Mozart House, Statsbrucke, Hohensalzburg Fortress, Mozartkugel Statue (Do try Mozartkugel: local chocolate)
Innsbrucke: Swarovski Crystal Place, Maria-Theresien Strasse, St. James Cathedral, Golden Roof (avoid this), and walk along the old town savouring local food (hope you eat non-veg), Nordkette Skyline Park: This might be closed due to snowfall in the coming month but if it isn't; the views are to die for from the top of the mountains.


In case you wish to take a drive, go visit the Grossglockner glacier near Salzburg. It is absolutely magnificent and beyond words. The drive there is like a paradise. Near this magnificent place, are also located Krimml waterfalls, the highest in Austria. You can spend a day here easily. There is Eagle's nest near Salzburg which is a sight in itself and warrants another full day. But you can avoid all this if you don't wish to wander off.
The most important rule: enjoy the local food

The problem here is again same. Lets say if some one wants to keep Salzburg as base in 2 days (inclusive of entry exit dates), he/she can at best make a full view of the city and probably one out travel.

For example in case of Salzburg: All the nice natural places (lake district, Hallstat, Werfen, Eagle's Nest are away from city and one needs to spend enough time on commute to these places). They cant be accessed in 2 days for sure.

Add to it Grossglockner and Krimml are better off with Zell-Am See as base rather than Salzburg. Though I know many prefer to do Zell Am see as day trip from Salzburg. (Not a bad idea just to visit the lake town for a day's visit with 90 minute train ride one way). But one cant do Krimml or Kaprun.

So my suggestion: Just stick to one city. (My Pick would be Salzburg). Stay over night. Take one of those bus tours for half day to see around places. And soak in the city life.

If you are more into landscapes, country sides, reduce days in Munich and add the same to Salzburg. Plus if you can drive instead of Public transport you can see even more!

Use this as a reference (An excellent travelogue) : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...k-austria.html (A week in Austria!)