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Old 30th November 2011, 21:47   #91
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Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
this H is exactly designed to detect the malpractice of the dealers in disconnecting the odo.

"H shows that the ODO is not reset'ed by anybody (Dealer or staff or anybody) as yet.

The 'H' reset be performed only once or it can be done any number of times as long as the ODO reads less than 200 Kms.
Is the technology that display this "H" thing smart enough to know if the odo has been physically disconnected?

Confused again. So you can keep hitting the reset button as long as the car is under 200km and the H will stay ON in the MID? This is not a great idea. If this is the case, how will you ever know how much the car has run? The car can be driven right from the Pune factory to the stock yard and all you need to do to keep the "H" from not disappearing is to reset when the odo is just under 199km.
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Old 30th November 2011, 21:55   #92
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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Is the technology that display this "H" thing smart enough to know if the odo has been physically disconnected?

Confused again. So you can keep hitting the reset button as long as the car is under 200km and the H will stay ON in the MID? This is not a great idea. If this is the case, how will you ever know how much the car has run? The car can be driven right from the Pune factory to the stock yard and all you need to do to keep the "H" from not disappearing is to reset when the odo is just under 199km.
From what I have read and understood, the ODO can be reset JUST ONCE in the car's lifetime before the counter reaches 200. And if you really are doubtful, as I suggested, you can ask the dealer to connect the OBD scanner and get details of how much the car has run (it will also tell you whether the odo has been reset).

Honestly, I have NEVER heard of a odo reset in any Fiat cars yet.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 00:20   #93
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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Is the technology that display this "H" thing smart enough to know if the odo has been physically disconnected?

Confused again. So you can keep hitting the reset button as long as the car is under 200km and the H will stay ON in the MID? This is not a great idea. If this is the case, how will you ever know how much the car has run? The car can be driven right from the Pune factory to the stock yard and all you need to do to keep the "H" from not disappearing is to reset when the odo is just under 199km.
Nishant is right. The odo can be reset if there is 'H' and can be done only once. Resetting the odo again and again is not possible.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 21:08   #94
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The excitement of my new car got me going to the stock yard today. It was not for a pre delivery inspection. I just wanted to see the one car that has been assigned to me. I spoke to Tauceef, who is my sales person and asked if we could visit the stock yard. He was wondering why as I was anyways going to go tomorrow to do the pre delivery inspection. I told Tauceef that all I need is 5 minutes. Tauceef agreed and got a gate pass for the stock yard from the showroom. The biggest blessing is that the stock yard is just half a kilometer from the showroom. Tauceef accompanied me to the stock yard. We drove in a colleagues car.

At the stock yard, there were about 50 cars. A good mix of Tata and Fiat cars. Not many Nano cars. The Tata line up was ruled by Indica. I noticed 4 T Jets. One fox trot azure, two white and my sun beam beige. It looked good. A quick glance did not reveal any kinks on the outside. I will be doing a very detailed pre delivery inspection tomorrow with team bhp member KarthikK, my father and another couple of friends. Karthikk owns a black T Jet. I asked Tauceef to turn on the ignition and noticed there was no "H" to be see on the odometer. I asked Tauceef about this. He did not know anything about the "H" or its existence. The odometer read 3km. Good sign or bad sign? The 3km sounds good but what about the missing "H"? The plastic seat covers on the front seats was not covering the seat entirely. I will update this thread in more detail about how the pre delivery inspection goes tomorrow. I just wanted a glance of what is going to be my new car.

Before the stock yard visit, I made a trip to SBI to collect the demand draft for my loan. Yes, it was ready. Ms. Shivani was on leave. I was attended to by a Ms. Vasantha who was not very familiar with my case. I was supposed to take the demand draft. As Vasantha was not sure if she could hand over the demand draft, she consulted with the branch manager. The branch manager advised me that they don't normally hand out the loan demand draft to the customer and that there could have been some wrong information given by Ms. Shivani that I could take it. This is normally issued to the dealer. If there were concerns with the car post pre delivery inspection, I can always hold back my down payment and also instruct the bank not to issue the demand draft over the phone. I was good with this, thanked the branch manager and left. Once again, I was impressed with how my little conversation went with the branch manager. She was very polite and got right to the point of my case.

Gentlemen, how do the steps for payment work? Lets say my pre delivery inspection goes well and I ask the dealer to proceed with registration. Will they do it without me giving them the balance down payment?

Some images attached from the stock yard visit. The gentleman wearing a tie is Mr. Tauceef. Very kind and soft spoken.
Attached Thumbnails
To buy or not to buy a T Jet+. NOW BOUGHT.-img2011120200084_resize.jpg  

To buy or not to buy a T Jet+. NOW BOUGHT.-img2011120200085_resize.jpg  

To buy or not to buy a T Jet+. NOW BOUGHT.-img2011120200086_resize.jpg  

To buy or not to buy a T Jet+. NOW BOUGHT.-img2011120200087_resize.jpg  

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Old 2nd December 2011, 23:18   #95
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Awesome. Looking like this machine is waiting to rule the road.
Congratulations Sandeep. Happy driving and Drive Safe.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 23:35   #96
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It is quite a feeling to see the allotted car in the dealer's stockyard. Akin to stealing sometime with the betrothed before the wedding.

She is quite a looker and with some nice tints she can win beauty pageants in the mean streets of Bengaluru. All the best with the PDI and happy motoring!
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Old 3rd December 2011, 00:55   #97
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Sandeep - the absence of H on the odo and just 3 km is worrying. It seems that the odo might have been reset. Did you enquire from where was the car transported to this stockyard, and how? If it was brought in a truck, then maybe 3 km is fine (but then why is the H missing?)

However, if it was driven some distance (which it MUST have, atleast to get it from assembly line to the truck, in the factory, in the stockyard etc) then 3 km sounds too little to me.

Do question these points in the PDI. Karthik is a learned man and it's good you have him for company.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:34   #98
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Haven't been able to login to team-bhp for almost a month now due to office work , so I have missed this thread totally! Glad to be back and see so many posts on this topic, very nice discussion on this thread.

Out of the many informative replies, I agree with Cranky's earlier post on the 6 points that you should keep in mind. The T-Jet is certainly going to serve you well and give you many smiles for miles, however you have to mentally prepared for any niggles that come up. I am yet to see any niggles, touchwood. A few unlucky ones have had to make repeated trips to the service station (Speed_pujari being one example) but that could very well be the problem with KHT's servicing expertise, or rather the lack of it.

For those who are talking about used T-Jet(s), ask any used car showroom if they have any. I doubt the search will be successful. There are very few Fiats for sale in the used car market, and T-Jets are non-existent. While the resale value could be a reason, another is that Fiat owners don't sell their cars easily. In fact I myself was looking at used Palio GTXs / 1.6 Sport models as a second, within-city car. Even those are not available anywhere easily. @sandeep - If this is going to be a long term car and resale is not a concern, or if you use it for highway runs and travelling, there is no better choice.

Looking forward to your PDI now.

From the pics, the panel gaps look acceptable to me. Most lineas on the road seem to suffer from uneven gaps between the bonnet and headlights, for some reason. Even mine had some gap between the co-driver side headlight and bonnet. See this picture from my thread - The co-driver side gap is noticeably more when viewed closely from the front.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...view-front.jpg

It is a minor job to correct it with the adjustment of the bonnet hinges and bushes (I will be getting it done during my service), but these minor, cosmetic imperfections should be taken care of during production, in my opinion, and not when the car is sold, no matter how small/irrelevant the imperfection is. Another common gap area was the one between the boot lid and tail lamps. Both areas look good to me in your car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
Sandeep - the absence of H on the odo and just 3 km is worrying. It seems that the odo might have been reset. Did you enquire from where was the car transported to this stockyard, and how? If it was brought in a truck, then maybe 3 km is fine (but then why is the H missing?)

However, if it was driven some distance (which it MUST have, atleast to get it from assembly line to the truck, in the factory, in the stockyard etc) then 3 km sounds too little to me.

Do question these points in the PDI. Karthik is a learned man and it's good you have him for company.
I too am a bit suspicious about the 'H' not being present on the dash. That's a sureshot sign that the car was used for more than 200km and then reset. I think this practice of using new cars for Test drives is rampant with many brands, especially among the showrooms which don't have dedicated, stickered demo cars. The car might have been used for TDs, it is tough to confirm. A better option would be to get the answer out of the horse's mouth (showroom staff). @nishant - learned man, eh?

Last edited by KarthikK : 3rd December 2011 at 11:54.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 14:23   #99
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Booked the car yesterday with KHT Motors in White field, Bangalore. It was not the best experience. I should have gone to Concorde Motors. Not that I know if the experience would have been better.

There was no way I could get the price some of you have mentioned. The final price was 9.97lac after corporate discounts for a T Jet Plus Premium color.

What annoyed me the most was when I was told by their finance person that their tie up with SBI was no more. I was give the option to take the loan with Axis and HDFC at 12.50% fixed rate of interest and a processing fee of Rs. 5300. I decided to not book and as I started walking out, the sale's person came up to me and asked if I would book if SBI was made available. I said yes and the SBI loan application form popped out of nowhere. This is very annoying. 11.25% floating rate of interest and no processing fee. I was told a savings account with SBI will need to be opened. I refused and said that all I need is the loan and not another savings bank account. Filled all the forms, submitted all the documents and paid Rs. 20k as booking amount. This was not enough according to the sale's chap. They wanted 50k. I said it was not required and 20k is sufficient.

They have a Sun Beam Biege, a black and some other color in their stock yard which is just half a km from the showroom. I did not go to take a look. I have asked for the VIN to be made available at the earliest. The sales chap, Mr. Tauseef was very humble and I got the fastest 5th test drive of the car. The finance chap Mr. Prashanth is the one who pissed me off saying no SBI on offer and did not really care when I started to leave.

There you go. Booked my first new car.
I got a call from Prerana motors that they are now offering additional 25k discount for Tjet+ this month and the ONP after all discounts is 9.34 lacs and for the Emotion-Fire it's 8lacs.
Wanted to check is Tjet+ really worth stretching 1.34lacs extra. I'm on a tight budget and confused if I should really stretch further. What rate did you get the loan finally? Appreciate your advice.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 19:40   #100
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I got a call from Prerana motors that they are now offering additional 25k discount for Tjet+ this month and the ONP after all discounts is 9.34 lacs and for the Emotion-Fire it's 8lacs.
Wanted to check is Tjet+ really worth stretching 1.34lacs extra. I'm on a tight budget and confused if I should really stretch further.
If you crave for performance, you couldn't ask for more. 9.34 lacs OTR is killer pricing, it is sensational, considering some hasty buyers like me bought the T-Jet+ at 11L a few months back, in July this year.

What do you get in the T-Jet+ for 1.34L over the 1.4 EP? 115 PS of power v/s 89 PS of the 1.4 fire, 207 Nm of torque (at as low as 2200 rpm) v/s 115 Nm @ 4500 rpm in the Fire, Leather seats, faster cooling A/C, 16" wheels with meaty 205/55 R16 rubber, all 4 disc brakes, a sporty chrome exhaust, some chrome treatment inside, folding rear seats and last but not the least, addictive turbo acceleration.

Take a call depending on your budget, but the 1.34L extra is more than worth it for the T-Jet+, if performance is the deciding factor.

Last edited by KarthikK : 3rd December 2011 at 19:46.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 22:11   #101
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Originally Posted by nitinr30 View Post
I got a call from Prerana motors that they are now offering additional 25k discount for Tjet+ this month and the ONP after all discounts is 9.34 lacs and for the Emotion-Fire it's 8lacs.
Wanted to check is Tjet+ really worth stretching 1.34lacs extra. I'm on a tight budget and confused if I should really stretch further. What rate did you get the loan finally? Appreciate your advice.
9.34 lacs for TJET, grab it.

what you get over 1.4 fire. you get a nuclear powered engine.

you get a turbo charger factory fitted. you must have seen people spending lacs of rs to fit turbo on their cars and the tooners in india mess it up.

here you get a perfect turbo charged petrol rocket.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 23:28   #102
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Pre Delivery Inspection Update.

I had quite a few people accompany me for this. My father, team bhp member under the handle Karthikk and my child hood pal Anil. We were in the stock yard at 230pm. The pre delivery inspection lasted 10min. We did not cut short the inspection. I caught a small dent on the rear mudguard, Karthik noticed a scuff mark on the boot lid. I have attached images of the location of the defects but it cannot be seen. The points of the fault are circled in red. The dent is something really minor. There is no scratch mark. I was on the verge of ignoring the kink and scuff mark when I over heard Karthik say that this is simply not justified when you are paying so much for a car. Karthik had a point. Money does not really grow on a tree for me. I struggled hard to save up a decent down payment for this car. I deserve a car without any defects. As usual, my sales man Tauceef assured me that the faults will be taken care off. I shot a question back at Tauceef, why should they be there in the first place? On a brand new car dammit. I was very upset. How do I break this news to my wife who is really looking forward to our new car. I finally did and she too turned upset. The car looked so awesome yesterday when I took a quick glance. I must also add that 99.9% of casual car buyers's will accept that the defect's are addressed before delivery of the vehicle. 99.9% may not even catch this defect. I give a thumbs down to the car and inform Tauceef that I need another unit. It can be a white, fox trot azure or another sun beam beige. Just get me another car. Tauceef says he will call me on Monday. Tauceef does appear to understand my plight that a new car straight off the factory should not have a single defect. Another thing I noticed was the furnishing inside the boot had come off its holding clip somewhere near the left rear strut mounting intrusion point. I could not even find the holding clip. The spare wheel tire was not a blackest black. It did hint at being used. I could be wrong here. It appeared alright to Karthik.

I looked at the other three T Jets in the stock yard. All are reserved for other customers. One white was in such a sorry state that it had shrubs grown all around it. You can see the bumper of the white T Jet in the attached photo.

Now for the odometer bit. I checked a black display T Jet Plus at the KHT Showroom. No "H". Then I checked another display Grande Punto. No "H". The Tjet had 3km, the Grande Punto had 2km on the odometer. I asked Tauceef about this. He called up someone and confirmed that KHT reset the odometer for all cars after their own pre delivery inspection. What do I do now? Tauceef assured me that the cars are not run more than 40km. This is the maximum they run if they need to be transported from the truck to stock yard. Cars are also driven directly to the stock yard after un loading. They are never brought to the showroom. This maybe a case specific to KHT Motors in white field. I would believe this to an extent as the road leading to the stock yard cannot accommodate a truck all the way IN. It is a mud road and yeah, all new cars are driven a good 400 meters before they get to take a long nap in the stock yard. A good route for a suspension and ground clearance test.

So these were the events of the day. Sad but True. Downed a few suds to kill the sadness and I am off to bed now.
Attached Thumbnails
To buy or not to buy a T Jet+. NOW BOUGHT.-img2011120200086_resize.jpg  


Last edited by sandeepmohan : 3rd December 2011 at 23:33.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 23:30   #103
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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
I too am a bit suspicious about the 'H' not being present on the dash. That's a sureshot sign that the car was used for more than 200km and then reset. I think this practice of using new cars for Test drives is rampant with many brands, especially among the showrooms which don't have dedicated, stickered demo cars. The car might have been used for TDs, it is tough to confirm. A better option would be to get the answer out of the horse's mouth (showroom staff).
Karthik, the absence of 'H' is really suspicious. But, do remember that 'H' will disappear after 200 Kms and the ODO cannot be reset after the 'H' disappears. Resetting of ODO can be done only once and that too when 'H' is displayed. To put it outright, the ODO cannot start from '0' after the 'H' disappears. If the ODO shows 3KM and if there is no 'H'. This is very peculiar. This needs to be clarified.

Recently, we did a PDI for my friend's Linea MJD Emotion. We noticed that the ODO shows 7 KM with 'H' but, the Trip A and Trip B is showing 9.9 .
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Old 4th December 2011, 00:05   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Pre Delivery Inspection Update.

I had quite a few people accompany me for this. My father, team bhp member under the handle Karthikk and my child hood pal Anil. We were in the stock yard at 230pm. The pre delivery inspection lasted 10min. We did not cut short the inspection. I caught a small dent on the rear mudguard, Karthik noticed a scuff mark on the boot lid. I have attached images of the location of the defects but it cannot be seen. The points of the fault are circled in red. The dent is something really minor. There is no scratch mark. I was on the verge of ignoring the kink and scuff mark when I over heard Karthik say that this is simply not justified when you are paying so much for a car. Karthik had a point. Money does not really grow on a tree for me. I struggled hard to save up a decent down payment for this car. I deserve a car without any defects.
There was yet another issue, the alignment of the driver side front door with the A pillar quarterpanel was skewed a bit. Most likely a bad alignment of the door fitting (where the front door hinges are attached). The panel gap was not only large, it was also crooked; Looked like a good recipe for a door problem later on.

The dent was definitely noticeable from most angles, but the paint wasn't re-done. I am sure some members here will disagree with me and say it was no big deal, you should have gone ahead with the car and got the dents and scratches fixed by KHT at their expense. To me, that can only be possible if the dealer had offered to knock off some massive amount from the OTR price for giving the 'defective' piece.

Quote:
As usual, my sales man Tauceef assured me that the faults will be taken care off. I shot a question back at Tauceef, why should they be there in the first place? On a brand new car dammit. I was very upset.
He was saying this happens to every car. This is no justification at all. These kinds of high headed replies are not going to help either Fiat or KHT get customers, sadly. A dent is unacceptable on a new car, whether it is a 3L alto or a 30L BMW. A minor scratch in a place or two is ok but anything involving dents on the bodywork are a huge letdown. I wanted to ask the sales rep if he would have bought this car had he been the buyer doing the PDI.

Quote:
How do I break this news to my wife who is really looking forward to our new car. I finally did and she too turned upset. The car looked so awesome yesterday when I took a quick glance. I must also add that 99.9% of casual car buyers's will accept that the defect's are addressed before delivery of the vehicle. 99.9% may not even catch this defect.
Sad you both have to wait for another week or so before the new one arrives. The wait will be worth it nonetheless

Quote:
Another thing I noticed was the furnishing inside the boot had come off its holding clip somewhere near the left rear strut mounting intrusion point. I could not even find the holding clip. The spare wheel tire was not a blackest black. It did hint at being used. I could be wrong here. It appeared alright to Karthik.
I didn't notice this boot issue. If it was just about the FIAT logo furnishing coming off the clips, that may not be anything major. The spare tyre seemed to be used once or twice (had a fair bit of dirt) but the tread wear indicators showed almost zero mileage. I think they had just used the tyre once to test it.

Quote:
Now for the odometer bit. I checked a black display T Jet Plus at the KHT Showroom. No "H". Then I checked another display Grande Punto. No "H". The Tjet had 3km, the Grande Punto had 2km on the odometer. I asked Tauceef about this. He called up someone and confirmed that KHT reset the odometer for all cars after their own pre delivery inspection. What do I do now? Tauceef assured me that the cars are not run more than 40km. This is the maximum they run if they need to be transported from the truck to stock yard. Cars are also driven directly to the stock yard after unloading. They are never brought to the showroom. This maybe a case specific to KHT Motors in white field. I would believe this to an extent as the road leading to the stock yard cannot accommodate a truck all the way IN. It is a mud road and yeah, all new cars are driven a good 400 meters before they get to take a long nap in the stock yard. A good route for a suspension and ground clearance test.
This resetting is simply unacceptable to me. How can they have such a policy? It is somewhat sad if you think how new cars (meant for some buyer) are abused by time wasters and test-drivers due to this resetting, and there is no other way for us to check it. An offbeat question - does KHT have dedicated test drive/demo (stickered) vehicles for T-Jet+, or for any other ones? Concorde and Prerana both have dedicated TD cars and will not use buyers' cars for test drives. Also, some information from my purchase - on PDI day - odometer, trip A and trip B showed 4km with a H, and on delivery day all 3 showed 56km with H. (acceptable since the stockyard to RTO distance is some 40-50km)

You can ask KHT to do this now - let them send the new car for you from their maharashtra factory and this time, instruct them NOT to reset the odometer ever. You will collect the car ONLY if it has a H and a low mileage on the odo (under 100km). Instruct them beforehand and check their reaction. I wouldn't be surprised to see them whining and calling you up to give excuses.


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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
Karthik, the absence of 'H' is really suspicious. But, do remember that 'H' will disappear after 200 Kms and the ODO cannot be reset after the 'H' disappears. Resetting of ODO can be done only once and that too when 'H' is displayed. To put it outright, the ODO cannot start from '0' after the 'H' disappears. If the ODO shows 3KM and if there is no 'H'. This is very peculiar. This needs to be clarified.

Recently, we did a PDI for my friend's Linea MJD Emotion. We noticed that the ODO shows 7 KM with 'H' but, the Trip A and Trip B is showing 9.9 .
Since you mentioned that the H appears only during first 200km and the resetting can be done only when the odo is within 'H phase', it should be that actually after the first reset, the H letter disappears and the odo starts counting from 0 now. Anyway the H reset won't work more than once, so it makes no sense to show H after the first (and final) reset is done. In this case, car could have run a maximum of 199km + 3km on fresh reset = 202km worst case.

Your friend's Linea PDI scenario was a superb way to catch the dealer red handed, haha

Last edited by KarthikK : 4th December 2011 at 00:32.
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Old 4th December 2011, 09:06   #105
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I got a call from Prerana motors that they are now offering additional 25k discount for Tjet+ this month and the ONP after all discounts is 9.34 lacs and for the Emotion-Fire it's 8lacs.
Wanted to check is Tjet+ really worth stretching 1.34lacs extra. I'm on a tight budget and confused if I should really stretch further. What rate did you get the loan finally? Appreciate your advice.
What is ONP? An additional 25k discount means an effective 1 lac rupee price drop. Even still, how does it come to 9.34lac. Can you please provide the break up. I have provided the cost break up in a previous post. Is this T Jet Plus Premium color? The premium color will add only 5k.

What is the location of the Prerana Motors you went to?

If there are budget constraints, just buy the top spec Multi Jet Linea. It drives better than the standard petrol. The T Jet is a rocket. If you do not crave the power of the T Jet, the Multi Jet is a satisfying drive.

I got my loan from state bank of india at 11.25% floating rate of interest.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 4th December 2011 at 09:22. Reason: Added another question
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