[noopster]

Hi Mohit,

I just TDed the Sunny Diesel XV and these are my impressions:

• Looks and feels GOOD. Chrome door handles in and out look nice. Interiors especially at the back are good. The beige shade on the doors and seats is quite becoming and won't be quite the dirt-magnet that the Vento's extremely light and delicate shade is. The fine vision meters as the brochure calls them- fancy name for the dashboard dials- are very good. The only thing that stood out like a sore thumb was the greige front console plastic and the circular AC dials- not to my taste.
• The doors shut with a reassuring thunk. I was pleasantly surprised that build quality is pretty solid since Germans usually have a clear advantage here.
• Rear seat comfort is unbelievable. If you are chauffer-driven most of the time, you will love the Sunny. Vento is not uncomfortable by any stretch but for older people/thoise with bad backs, it may pose problems. And seating three in comfort is definitely a cinch in the Sunny.
• Front storage space is definitely an issue: the Vento has a nice big glove compartment and the storage under the centre armrest.
• Driving comfort- overall I would have to pump for the Vento. The front armrest is sorely missed, plus the Sunny's steering has no telescopic reach adjustment; even the rake adjustment is a little unwieldy. I found it a little difficult to get comfortable in the seats vis-a-vis the gearshift lever but managed to after a while. In the Vento, you have to sit a little further back than normal because the hard central console hits your knees: this is beautifully designed in the Sunny so you can go as far upfront as you want and not have smarting knees.
• Sunny has ABS with EBD and brake assist- these are lacking in the Vento (I think! ). But in all honesty I wasn't happy with the braking: seemed a little vague and slow to respond.
• NVH is a bit much in the Sunny- I didn't like it. There is a lot of cabin noise. The Vento feels silky silent in comparison- better cladding I guess.
• Steering-mounted controls, auto-AC, front airbags, speed-sensing autolock etc. are common to both. The Sunny's rear blowers have 0,1,2 speed controls which is good.
• One feature that I felt was an utter waste: the keyless stop-start. You really don't know what to do with the key once you've entered the car and chances are you will leave it behind when you get out. In which case the damn thing auto-locks after 5 minutes and the sales rep told me it's advisable to carry a spare key at all times . Don't they test a feature before putting it in?
• Biggest surprise for me was how awesome the 1.5L diesel engine feels: no perceptible turbo lag and fairly linear in delivery. I accelerated to about 80 in 5th before encountering truck traffic and could easily decelerate back down to 30 without downshifting. It's no stonker like the VW 1.6 TDI but more than adequate for city/highway usage.
• Gear shift lever is so-so. The Vento's is certainly slicker and easier to slot. But this is not a dealbreaker in my opinion.
• I couldn't really put the handling capabilities to test but assume the German has the advantage here. Felt quite stable on the highway and in one or two of the curves I threw it into. The lower seating position in the Vento gives it a more grounded feel, which the Sunny lacks.
• Electric folding ORVMs is a nice addition over the Vento. So is the fact that each door can actually be locked/unlocked individually. No USB in the headunit, though- just AUX in.
• In the final analysis, it's the little things in the VW that you'll miss: soft touch buttons, lovely wiper and lighting stalks, interior lighting (the Veedub lights up like it's Christmas), quality of seat fabric, nice chunky yet light steering wheel etc. That and the badge value of the "German" car. If those are worth the premium for you, go for the Vento. Else you may be pleasantly surprised with the Sunny.

Just saw your last post: I honestly don't think it's advisable to go for a petrol car with 2 diesels in the garage: you will not enjoy seeing the bill top 3K every time you fill up and may end up not using the new car as much! If you're seriously considering the Honda City CE, i would suggest you go for the Sunny diesel instead!

Hope this helps!

[bluevolt]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Somehow the City keeps coming back in the list. After a long discussion yesterday night over dinner, everyone in the house seems to be in favour of the City corp edition. A nice set of alloys and a decent looking HU will cost around 50k taking the OTR price to 8.5L. Thats still almost 2L less then the Vento and mathematically speaking it would be enough to cover up for any Running cost difference over the next 5 years by which time who knows what the car market will be like. Plus its a proven and reliable car, after sales is decent ( though my experience with them hasn't been all that good).

Anyways A visit with the whole family is planned over the weekend to all the 3 dealers. I will update the thread then.

You already have two diesel cars (Innova and Altis). You want a car for city use and with running of 1000-1200 KMs. I guess Honda City CE is the car to go for. Don't worry about the mileage; you will easily get 13-14KMPL in Delhi traffic conditions (I am getting the same in NCR).

This time give Honda a try you will love the free revving petrol unit which is powerful yet fuel efficient.

Go for it. OR at least TD it.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by noopster

The doors shut with a reassuring thunk. I was pleasantly surprised that build quality is pretty solid since Germans usually have a clear advantage here.

I second this observation. I have noticed this in the Nissans here, and the other Japanese which gave a super solid feel was the Mazda

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by noopster

[*]In the final analysis, it's the little things in the VW that you'll miss: soft touch buttons, lovely wiper and lighting stalks, interior lighting (the Veedub lights up like it's Christmas), quality of seat fabric, nice chunky yet light steering wheel etc. That and the badge value of the "German" car. If those are worth the premium for you, go for the Vento. Else you may be pleasantly surprised with the Sunny.[/list]Just saw your last post: I honestly don't think it's advisable to go for a petrol car with 2 diesels in the garage: you will not enjoy seeing the bill top 3K every time you fill up and may end up not using the new car as much! If you're seriously considering the Honda City CE, i would suggest you go for the Sunny diesel instead!

Hope this helps!

Man first of all you Rock! Thanks a ton for taking the time out for that.

The sunny Variant we are considering doesn't come with the Chrome handles on the inside. It also does lose out on a little bit of chrome elsewhere, the Engine start stop button and the smart entry key with those sensors.

Well lets see how things go. Right now all the three cars are right in the mix.

[noopster]

You're welcome. Not like it was an unpleasant chore...and the Nissan showroom is just down the road.

I was going to suggest you get the XL since it eliminates the start stop thingamajig. You won't miss much except the folding ORVMs which are cool. But you can live without those.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[drmohitg]

Took a TD of the Sunny and the Vento today again. Didn't TD the Honda since I kind of know how it drives ( there are so many Honda's and Maruti's in everybody's family ).

The TD have left me more confused than ever.

Sunny:
1.The car is really spacious. The head room at the back is slightly less. There was merely an inch between my head and the Roof. But surprisingly it doesn't feel like that. There is no claustrophobic feeling like the Verna. Anyways my Dad is 5'8" so he has ample room.
2. The interiors are well screwed. The plastics are of good quality all over and I didn't find any fault with the car here.
3. The space between the driver's seat and the door is very less. I had to squeeze in my hand somehow to adjust the seat.
4. The engine is very very silent. When the SA started the TD car, a gentleman came and asked him to start the car since he just wanted to hear the engine noise. The guy didn't realise that the engine is already on. Its that silent. But the sounds do filter inside the cabin when you accelerate. Although I should point out that the stereo was off. With little music on, it should not be a worry.
5. The Turbo lag is minimal. The car easily picks up from low speeds unlike my Altis diesel in which you will need to downshift. So for city driving its great and easy.
6. The gear shift is a little notchy. Its not that smooth as I would expect it to be. Also the lack of a centre arm rest in the front makes it slightly less comfortable. Both the other cars I drive ie the Altis and Innova have the arm rest so I have got used to resting my arm there.
7. The clutch is very very light. Infact it had no feed back and is like a petrol car. I am not too sure that is it the same with every car. But the TD car had just 800 kms on the ODO so I don't expect the clutch to give way so soon. In that case +100 for the ultra smooth clutch.
8. Overall the car is just like any other Jap car. It feels light to drive and should hold its own for good number of years without any rattles and so on.

Vento:
I have TD it before and everyone here is very well familiar with the car's driving characteristics.
1. The engine is ofcourse noisier, much more responsive with all that torque and the lag is surely more then the Sunny.
2. The build quality is typically European although I cannot say better then the Sunny.
3. One main grudge I have with the car is that my knee keeps knocking the central console which is kind of irritating.
4. The car feels smaller from both outside and inside than the Sunny.

So guys those are my impressions of the TD. Its just left me as confused as ever. A part of me wants to get something different and go for the Vento.
Another part of me says that it will be a waste to let the Driver drive it the whole time which kind of negates the benefits of that awesome engine. Also the Vento might prove to be a little more expensive to maintain since my driver is prone to getting scratches and dents on the car. So that way Sunny fits the bill better since it offers more space inside and the smaller engine will mean better FE.
Another small but significant third part wants to go the tried and tested Honda city way with the corp edition. Only thing there is that one cannot predict how the petrol prices will behave in the future. If the difference between the 2 fuels keeps increasing then the running costs will soon start hurting. The 1000 km run is right at the borderline with the current pricing.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Took a TD of the Sunny and the Vento today again. Didn't TD the Honda since I kind of know how it drives ( there are so many Honda's and Maruti's in everybody's family ).

The TD have left me more confused than ever.

After reading through your TD report a couple of times, I feel the Sunny maybe a better bet for you - unless you really want that Non-Japanese car in your garage

[noopster]

This thread is getting more entertaining all the time . Sorry man, don't mean to laugh at your predicament but at some point you just need to go with your heart!

My advice stays the same: if you don't mind paying the premium, go for the Vento. It is a great car, truly VFM (since you get several features that typically only come from a segment above) and will complement your garage nicely.

If you are constrained on budget for heaven's sake get the Sunny over the Honda City. Petrol has already touched 75 (at Shell) in Pune. There is every possibility that it will hit 100 by the end of the year. It seems pretty obvious the government will not go beyond lip service while talking about rationalising diesel prices etc. So make the most of it and get a diesel!

[advaitlele]

Have read thru the thread in one go and it has almost all the contents for making a love triangle with KJo flavor for the petrol-heads.

When in doubt - listen to your heart. You will be at peace.
Reading thru this - I would concur with Noop - go for Sunny pls avoid City looking at the petrol prices.

[dkaile]

Really Mohit, repeat Rs. 2.5 Lacs rupees over and over again in your mind and you will realise that the CE does in fact make sense. Make an FD of this saved amount and put the monthly interest into the debit card a/c from which you will make your petrol payments. You will be pleasantly surprised each month when the free income credits up. It's a petrol-heads car, proven engine and technology, reliability and resale.

If still diesel is the choice then the Skoda Rapid is definitely the better option from the two you have shortlisted. I know it's 'your' money but prudence requires you to give Rapid a second look.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Really Mohit, repeat Rs. 2.5 Lacs rupees over and over again in your mind and you will realise that the CE does in fact make sense.

The saving is huge. I know that. This is the reason why you see the Honda city in my final list of the cars to consider. Only thing holding me back is that the interiors didn't excite me in the corp edition. I have always been a fan of the beige interiors. The fabric used in the corp edition looks a little below the quality one expects to see in a C segment sedan, that too a Honda. The E MT stops making sense since the premium they are charging for it is not justified. Also it then dangerously comes near the Sunny Diesel.

If still diesel is the choice then the Skoda Rapid is definitely the better option from the two you have shortlisted. I know it's 'your' money but prudence requires you to give Rapid a second look.

I don't like Skoda for unknown reasons. Call it the TBHP effect but reading all that negative stuff about there servicing standards has left a lot of bad taste in my mouth. So no Skoda for me.

Right now its more of a fight between the Sunny and the Vento.

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I have always been a fan of the beige interiors. The fabric used in the corp edition looks a little below the quality one expects to see in a C segment sedan, that too a Honda.

I don't like Skoda for unknown reasons.

A Autoform beige interior upgrade will hardly cost anything.

Believe me Skoda is serious about India and is changing.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by dkaile

A Autoform beige interior upgrade will hardly cost anything.

Interior upgrade? What all is covered under that? Can you elaborate a little more?

Believe me Skoda is serious about India and is changing.

No thanks Sir. Let them first change that properly. Till then I am happy putting my money elsewhere. I just don't want to risk it. If something goes wrong in the car then I would not be able to live with it. Anyways looks wise too I feel VW Vento looks much more nicer to me. So No Skoda.

[Relativity]

I just finished reading the Autocar Feb issue and you might want to check the comparison report between Nissan Sunny and Skoda Rapid (AKA Vento). As per the review, Rapid wins hands down.

[antz.bin]

Hello DOCsaab. There is not much I can say here that can add to whatever has already been discussed. I look at that garage of yours and wonder what car is this new one replacing. Apart from the 2003 Lancer, the rest are basically boring cars that your driver will be driving (no offends to any owners, just IMO). I also liked the way you chose the Altis over the competition last year. Its time to get subjective again.

Would you want your driver have all the fun and have you pay for it?
Or would you rather drive yourself?

Word of advice: Since this car won't be going out of city confines, you already know what to do. But if you do intend to keep one for the occasional highway run, the Vento would be a lot of fun by comparison. Actually I would suggest the Vento solely because overall, it complements the garage better.