[.anshuman]

Confused on what Diesel car to buy for ~10 lakh Rupees with so many choices around? Please use this thread for discussion on Diesel cars from this segment.

Volkswagen Vento

Link to official Team-BHP Review: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ve-review.html (Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review)

What you'll like:
• A well-built, robust, European sedan
• Clean and contemporary styling. Boot is superbly integrated
• Stunning diesel engine. New torque king of the C segment
• Mature suspension setup. Balanced ride & handling
• Segment firsts : Reach adjust steering, gear recommender, adjustable driver armrest etc.
• All-rounded nature; Jack of all trades

What you won't:
• 6.99L Trendline (entry) variant is simply too basic
• Petrol engine isn't as impressive as the diesel. Average low rpm response
• Electric power steering. The Vento deserves a pure hydraulic unit
• Quite a loud & clattery diesel engine
• Thin 47 dealer all-India network. After sales has yet to prove itself
• VW's long-term reliability and ownership costs are unknown



Hyundai Verna

Link to official Team-BHP Review:https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ve-review.html

What you'll like:
• A great looking Hyundai sedan
• Well-packaged; sufficient room front & back
• Competent 1.6L powerplants, especially torquey diesel. Wide range of engines & transmissions on offer
• Ride quality & behaviour in the city
• Several segment-first features (reversing camera, keyless entry & go, electric folding mirrors and more)
• Top notch safety equipment including 6 airbags, ABS + EBD, all wheel disc brakes etc.

What you won't:
• Dynamics & high speed handling capability. Softly tuned suspension
• High speed ride quality isn't flat. Suspension, especially on uneven roads, gets wallowy
• 4 speed Automatic gearboxes. This segment calls for a 5 speed
• Under-thigh support of the low rear seat not as good as that of competition



Skoda Rapid

Link to official Team-BHP Review:https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ve-review.html (Skoda Rapid : Test Drive & Review)

What you'll like:
• A well-built European car
• Better package than the Vento at a lower, VFM price
• Superb diesel engine; good driveability and 250 Nm of torque
• Mature ride & handling setup
• Confidence inspiring dynamics, brakes and chassis
• Easy to drive Automatic transmission. Different modes to suit your style of driving

What you won't:
• Skoda's scary after-sales-service
• Not as feature laden as the competition (No steering mounted controls, USB stereo, parking sensors etc.)
• Sluggish "D" mode of the Automatic gearbox. Also, no Automatic option for the diesel engine
• Petrol engine isn't as impressive as the diesel
• Tall rear floor hump makes the Rapid more suited as a 4 seater, than 5



Ford Fiesta

Link to official Team-BHP Review:https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ve-review.html (Ford Fiesta : Test Drive & Review)

What you'll like about the Fiesta:
• Futuristic front-end & stylish dashboard design
• Great feature set including voice activation, auto-fold mirrors, cruise control, and more
• ABS and Dual-airbags are standard across the range, including the entry variants
• Ford’s torquey, fuel-efficient diesel engine
• Excellent driving dynamics and impressive steering feel for an EPS


What you won't:
• Priced significantly higher than its competitors
• Disproportionate rear end due to excessive bulk behind the rear wheel arches
• Interiors at the rear look and feel like they are from a segment lower
• At low speeds, the suspension firmness accentuates the imperfections of the road



Fiat Linea


What you'll like:

• Elegant styling
• Solid build quality
• Fuel-efficient diesel
• Brilliant handling & dynamics
• Mature ride quality
• Top level of equipment

What you won't:

• Compact rear seat confines
• Lack of outright performance
• Interior fit, finish and quality are below average
• Shoddy after-sales support
• Niggling issues

Nissan Sunny

Link to official Team-BHP Review:https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ve-review.html (Nissan Sunny Diesel : Test Drive & Review)

What you'll like:
• Spectacular rear leg room and comfortable rear bench
• Excellent city driveability, great low end torque and the promise of diesel economy
• Mature and compliant ride matched by predictable handling
• Convenience & comfort features such as true keyless-entry & start, rear fan vents, folding mirrors etc.
• Interior quality & cabin fit / finish
• Safety kit is consistent on both variants (ABS, EBD, Brake Assist & 2 Airbags)

What you won't:
• Brakes feel slow to react and aren't confidence-inspiring
• Noticeable road-noise once you get up to highway speeds
• Vague gearbox isn't always keen to slot into gear
• No base (XE) variant offered on the diesel
• Rear head-room & under-thigh support are in short supply
• Nissan's dealer network is still fairly limited, most cities have just one dealer.



Maruti Suzuki SX4

Link to review by Sidindica: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ve-review.html

What you'll like:

• A value oriented, sensible all round diesel sedan
• Great blend of performance and mileage
• Strong mid range
• High GC and balanced ride quality
• Good level of equipment
• Maruti's high calibre after sales service

What you won't:

• Build and quality lacks finesse of Euro rivals
• Price to displacement ratio can raise eyebrows
• Back seat lacks comfort
• Unsorted chassis and handling
• Potential long term threat from upcoming newer entrants

Points taken from respective review threads.

[arununo]

Hi everyone!

Let me put forth in points

Aim: To buy a sedan for my family of three. It will serve my daily needs as well

My predicted usage: In a month, City use-300Kms Highway use - 300Kms. Sedate driving style with occasional sprints. Self driven. I am 6ft tall, so driver seat comfort, under thigh support mean a lot to me.

Fuel: Diesel by choice, Not averse to a petrol

Previous cars: Fiat Uno 45 S, Tata Indica V2 DLS

Budget : 10 lacs, but not exceeding 11

My ideal car:
1. Diesel Manual
2. Good handling and safety. Solid Build.
3. Driver and front passenger comfort. The backbench is rarely occupied.
4. VERY GOOD AIRCONDITIONER
5. Less visits to the workshop and low maintenance
6. Will probably be sold as scrap, as we never sell our cars

Work up: I have read through most of the threads over the last six months and had narrowed down to a list of cars. I have test driven all these cars multiple number of times.

1. Fiat Linea MJD Emotion
2. Skoda Rapid TDI Elegance
3. Honda City S MT
4. Nissan Sunny Diesel XL
5. Toyota Etios
6. Tata Manza Quadrajet

Let me start from the reverse, as by now you must have realized, I have narrowed down to two cars and it is between them, that, I need help choosing.

Excluded:
1. Tata - Have/Had 7 iterations of the Indica/ Indigo / Sumo clan and I am fed up of their unreliability and frequent repairs. So Ta ta.

2. Toyota: Felt very flimsy and was a witness to the "Watergate" scandal. So out it goes

3. Nissan - Very tinny build. Would have bought it otherwise. Makes good sense to buy if you dont consider the build as a major factor

4. Honda City- Most of my friends have this car. Never seen them pushing it on the road or being handed huge bills. Will buy this only if my plans of buying a diesel go awry.

The Contenders:

The Italian Job: Fiat Linea MJD Emotion

Solid, Good driver's seat, Turbo lag doesn't affect me. Very good AC. Maintenance costs from what I have seen in these threads are perhaps nominal.

My wife loves it and fantasizes us going on long drives. Plus I am a lover of all things FIAT ( A.S.S and Clutch Failures not withstanding). Satisfies most conditions of my ideal car. However, most of friends and family are against me buying this car for non-availability of spares.

Skoda Rapid:

Solid, Good Handling, AC was quite ineffective at 12 midday. Took almost 4-5kms for the car to get cooled. on the whole, the rapid seems to be good excepting the interiors and AC, but I can overlook them for a better engine. Skoda has only one dealer here. So, I am skeptical about purchasing from them. I am not so sure about the availability of spare parts with Skoda.


Discussion: Heart says Fiat, Mind says Skoda. What do you have to say?

NB: I almost bought a 2011 Tjet being offered by Fiat at low prices, but, during PDI I found that the car's odometer had been reset and "H" was not to be seen. I asked for a car fresh from the factory, but the dealer has not got back since.

Eagerly waiting for your replies

Arun

[lloydofcochin]

Arun, It has to be the Linea. How can a FIAT guy jump ship and that too for Skoda?? There are many horror stories out here for the Skodas and what I've heard is that the parts & maintenance are expensive compared to a FIAT.

So my suggestion would be to go by the Heart and choose a Linea. The ride, handling and steering feel is just awesome. It is a Tank and I need not say anything about the looks. And since FIAT is serious about the Indian market and are embarking on their own now the spares should not be an issue.

NB: Linea will surely me my next Car. I have been dreaming about that for sometime now.

[sameerg001]

Both linea and rapid are on par with each other, while one excels in one department, other excels in another.

Where linea is segment best in terms of ride and handling, rapid comes second, But when it comes to interior and overall build linea is miles behind from skoda. Rapid and vento are segment best, when it comes to overall build and interior quality.

Rapid also has a edge over linea in terms of engine, rapid's 1.6 unit will dust away puny 1.3 unit in linea on any given day.

If you are ready to live with linea's build quality and you are a Fiat fan, and if you are okay with service backup, go ahead follow your heart and buy a linea.

But if you don't, then go ahead and buy rapid, it is car which will suits all your parameter's pretty well.

If i have to pick one between them, it'll be either rapid or vento, as fiat India still needs a lot to well establish themselves here, they need to work hard to get customer's attention towards them, If they get a success in getting the same, the day isn't far when we will see more and more punto's and linea's on road.


Good luck with your decision, all the best

Cheers
Sameer

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by arununo

Aim: To buy a sedan for my family of three. It will serve my daily needs as well

Fuel: Diesel by choice, Not averse to a petrol

Previous cars: Fiat Uno 45 S, Tata Indica V2 DLS

Budget : 10 lacs, but not exceeding 11

My ideal car:
1. Diesel Manual
2. Good handling and safety. Solid Build.
3. Driver and front passenger comfort. The backbench is rarely occupied.
4. VERY GOOD AIRCONDITIONER
5. Less visits to the workshop and low maintenance
6. Will probably be sold as scrap, as we never sell our cars

1. Fiat Linea MJD Emotion
2. Skoda Rapid TDI Elegance
3. Honda City S MT
4. Nissan Sunny Diesel XL
5. Toyota Etios
6. Tata Manza Quadrajet

Your testdrive observations suggest you liked the Linea. Since resale value does affect you much and if you don't mind the performance go for the Linea. Some dealers are offering huge discounts on this car including Multijet variants.

Maintenance cost is very reasonable for a car of this segment. Though being a owner of a Fiat car i do find parts availability bad despite having access to the vast Tata service network, part of the reason lies in unwilling dealers and not so responsive Fiat management. I do not expect any miracles when Fiat moves on to its own setup in future.

AC again is improved but do not expect it to be a bone chiller. Overall a rugged tried tested car with the familiar MJD engine with top class dynamics. I would have whole-heartedly recommended this car if it had the 1.6MJD engine.

Rapid's trump card is the 1.6 TDI engine, which feels so much more eager and effortless and still returning similar FE. The choice of gear ratios is also more sensible than the Linea, on open roads doing 100kph @ Fifth cog it does feel a lot more relaxed. Ride and Handling are not better than Linea but still are very good compared to others in segment. Cost of maintenance is higher than Linea but part availability is better inspite of a smaller dealer network.

Another car to check out is the new Fiesta. Yes it is overpriced, but the dealers maybe offering good deals. Ride and Handling is class best without any doubts. The engine is not as peppy as Vento and Rapid but still feels more refined than these cars. A good car killed by overpricing and conservative power output. Good thing is even the lower variants come with ABS and Airbags.

[musicmanaman]

One car missed out here because if may be dated is the Logan or Verito, It covers the basics very well, has a strong AC, the back seat is quite confortable, is quite reliable as well, with M&M the service network is also not a problem, in Diesel it’s very fuel efficient too from what I have heard.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by musicmanaman

One car missed out here because if may be dated is the Logan or Verito

Intentionally did not list Manza, Dzire and Verito as they are priced in lower range. Kept the range limited to cars around 10L for opening post, but they can obviously be discussed here.

[DieselDon]

Come Feb 2013, I would complete a good 10 happy yrs with Indica V2 DLS.
A new job with Corporate Car Lease option, put me in precisely the same confusion, a good 8 months ago. Adding fuel to the fire is my flexible budget < 10.5 lakhs(ex-showroom).
@.anshuman / @arununo - I will be glued to this thread.

My priorities :
1. Comfort/Space/Underthigh support: Highway trips are on the higher side. And drive an Indica for 10 yrs and you will know why this comes first.
2. Handling/Safety: No comments.
3. Maintenance Costs: Tend to drive rough & through rough roads.
4. Resale: Was never in the equation. But introduce 'Corporate Lease' tax benefit. Buying a new car on expiry would provide maximum benefits. Will remove 'resale' from the equation if my wife wants a car.

One liners. (My perception, perhaps 'The grapes are sour')
SX4: Neither here nor there. For some reason did not go for even a test drive.
Linea: A little costly for what is offered. Do not want to get pampered yet.
Fiesta: Took two test drives to confirm the lack of space.
Sunny: Would have gone for the Japanese reliability if 'anyone' had good opinion on brakes.
Verna: I was able to take my mind of this beauty only after personally experiencing the highway manners during 2 test drives.

Rapid: Undiluted quality/power. Skoda Hyderabad allowed only shortish test drives. Hope I convince them for my usual 30 min ride to get convinced.
Vento: Should I go for the comfort of VW *** over Skoda *** ? However from what I heard - Vento has lesser highway manners though.
Manza: I have not yet 'Ta-Ta'ed the Manza yet (Close friends who own the recent Tata cars have vouched that the Quality/*** has been getting better by the day).

Between Tata & Skoda - I am worried if Skoda will put me to higher ownership costs. Tata has pampered me(financially) too much I would guess.

Honda might stir up the discussion a bit. Diesel Engine from Honda ? Diwali I hear.

TBHPians - Keep the comments coming.

Due to some personal issues and financial planning. I will have to wait till Jan 2013 to get delivery of my new car. Am hoping to 'decide well'.

[rbarney]

I have been looking to replace my 9 year old Indigo with a new car. Over every 6 months period, my monthly drive is usually around 7000 KMs - highway/city in 60:40 ratio. Given the price differential, I am looking only at diesel cars. I have owned an Indigo for over 9 years and am still reasonably happy with it. Mostly drive alone though weekends / outstation trips are usually 2 adults/2 children. Here are my requirements, in order of preference:

1. Safety - ABS/EBD/Airbags etc absolute must.
2. Build quality and A S S - A car is meant to be on road and I don't need to know every bit of details to keep it running. With my Indigo / Tata A S S, I have been forced to read and invest time much more than I really want to so quality wise, and A S S wise, I should get a top notch car.
3. Ground clearance - My daily route crosses enough bumps that my friend's Jazz scrapes even at a lowly 5 KMPH. Scraping the car scrapes my heart and I don't ever want to be in that situation.
4. Budget < 11 Lakhs though can stretch it by another couple of lakhs.
5. I intend to keep the car for a minimum of 10 years (if I could keep Indgo running this long, the next car must cross that milestone. This means that
5a) the car should be reasonably new - no spare parts issue 7-8 years down the line.
5b) Has to be from manufacturers with reasonably good history of operating in India
6. The new car should feel like an upgrade from my Indigo.
7. This will be the only car in the family so large cars / MUVs like Xylo etc are out of picture.

I had the following short listed and have even TD'ed some of them.

a. Toyota Etios - The interiors/fit/finish/equipment level remind me of Indigo and my wife mentioned - this is no different from our Indigo. Test Drive ticked the other boxes but this just doesn't feel like an upgrade from my then 5.4 lakh Indigo at ~9.4 lakhs on road price.
b. Vento / Rapid - not in contention. Vento - because of long term ownership cost unknown and Rapid - have heard of enough horror stories with Skoda that I will never buy anything from them.
c. Fiat - doesn't meet requirements 2 and 5.
d. SX4 - too old in the tooth now. Most likely will be phased out soon since it's not been a commercial success and hence my 10+ year ownership requirement not met.
e. Ertiga - ticks all the boxes but the 9 month waiting period for ZDi is throwing spanner in the works.
f. Hyundai Verna - am majorly concerned about long term service costs. I have been hearing costly service costs for Hyundai so am really wary and hence haven't really TD'ed it so far.
g. Ford new Fiesta - it's not been a commercial success and hence my 10+ year ownership requirement not met.

Given all of the above, my options at this point of time are either Ertiga, or perhaps wait another 9-10 months for mini Xylo / Renault Duster/ Ford EcoSport / wait another 9-10 months and then decide. My Indigo is still going strong so don't need to replace it immediately.

I guess I am veering towards what I mentioned in the last para - wait till next year and take things from there or, book an Ertiga ZDi now, and if need to cancel if a new car comes that meets all my criteria better, take that 2.5K as booking penalty as sunk cost. Just want to hear from fellow members if I am missing on any options or not.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by rbarney

I guess I am veering towards what I mentioned in the last para - wait till next year and take things from there or, book an Ertiga ZDi now, and if need to cancel if a new car comes that meets all my criteria better, take that 2.5K as booking penalty as sunk cost. Just want to hear from fellow members if I am missing on any options or not.

There is no harm in booking a Ertiga now. You can cancel the booking anytime if you decide to buy another car, 2500 bucks is not a big amount you should be worried about when buying a 10 lakh rupee car.

The practice of selling off cars for a premium is one of the reasons why a common man has to wait much longer for his booked car. A malpractice used by car financing DSAs is to book a newly launched car in bulk and then pass these cars off at a premium to buyers who are not willing to wait and can pay a premium, they usually have a nexus with Dealerships. Though most car companies and dealerships will say this does not exist, but i have seen everything from Fortuner to Swift to XUV delivered in a day for premium. Some dealers try to make quick buck by passing off overpriced useless accessories like bull bars and chrome garnish etc in exchange for a priority delivery, a practice i have mainly seen with Toyota and Mahindra dealers. A big percentage of these cars which have long waiting queues are constantly siphoned off by Dealerships for a fat cash premium and under pressure from people with contacts.

[infotech58]

Originally Posted by rbarney

I had the following short listed and have even TD'ed some of them.

a. Toyota Etios - The interiors/fit/finish/equipment level remind me of Indigo and my wife mentioned - this is no different from our Indigo. Test Drive ticked the other boxes but this just doesn't feel like an upgrade from my then 5.4 lakh Indigo at ~9.4 lakhs on road price.
b. Vento / Rapid - not in contention. Vento - because of long term ownership cost unknown and Rapid - have heard of enough horror stories with Skoda that I will never buy anything from them.
c. Fiat - doesn't meet requirements 2 and 5.
d. SX4 - too old in the tooth now. Most likely will be phased out soon since it's not been a commercial success and hence my 10+ year ownership requirement not met.
e. Ertiga - ticks all the boxes but the 9 month waiting period for ZDi is throwing spanner in the works.
f. Hyundai Verna - am majorly concerned about long term service costs. I have been hearing costly service costs for Hyundai so am really wary and hence haven't really TD'ed it so far.
g. Ford new Fiesta - it's not been a commercial success and hence my 10+ year ownership requirement not met.

Have you considered Nissan Sunny Diesel? At around 9 lac OTR, it is an awesome package.

[rbarney]

Originally Posted by infotech58

Have you considered Nissan Sunny Diesel? At around 9 lac OTR, it is an awesome package.

Thanks infotech58. There is only one dealer in Bangalore and he isn't even willing to provide me a test drive car even to my office which is nearly 10KMs from dealer's office. I must go visit the dealer showroom for test drive. Moreover, I live on the other side of Bangalore and if the behaviour is this during test drive, I don't think regular service will be any better so although I have tried this, I am skipping Nissan Sunny given this limitation as well.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

There is no harm in booking a Ertiga now. You can cancel the booking anytime if you decide to buy another car, 2500 bucks is not a big amount you should be worried about when buying a 10 lakh rupee car.

Thanks Anshuman. It wasn't just about making the booking amount. There were several things that I talked to the dealer who said he will come back but hasn't so far. There were things like:
1. I would be transferring my no claim bonus so that should be accounted for.
2. If the delivery is advanced, I won't take it in late November / December and hence delivery will have to be in 2013.
3. If the delivery is made in 2013 any time, it must be a 2013 model.
4. No forcing down any of the "unnecessary" things in the price list down my throat. For example 337 for some loyalty card / ~2k for a basic accessories package.
5. Complete PDI and will pay up only if PDI passes.

I mentioned that the dealer needs to agree to all of these and in writing/email only then will I do the booking. The sales guy who looked to be a complete newbie on the job because he kept running to his "supervisor" for every question of mine mentioned he will confirm and get back to me in a day but hasn't so far. I probably scared them with these conditions but if I am willing to wait for 9 months, these are absolute must for me. Lets see when the dealer calls. BTW, this dealer is Pratham on Outer Ring Road.

Originally Posted by .anshuman

The practice of selling off cars for a premium is one of the reasons why a common man has to wait much longer for his booked car. A malpractice used by car financing DSAs is to book a newly launched car in bulk and then pass these cars off at a premium to buyers who are not willing to wait and can pay a premium, they usually have a nexus with Dealerships. Though most car companies and dealerships will say this does not exist, but i have seen everything from Fortuner to Swift to XUV delivered in a day for premium. Some dealers try to make quick buck by passing off overpriced useless accessories like bull bars and chrome garnish etc in exchange for a priority delivery, a practice i have mainly seen with Toyota and Mahindra dealers. A big percentage of these cars which have long waiting queues are constantly siphoned off by Dealerships for a fat cash premium and under pressure from people with contacts.

Perhaps the reason sales supervisor kept on asking me if this will be corporate scheme / individual scheme multiple times. When I mentioned individual, he tried selling his own finance guys but backed off when I mentioned I will be paying from my own pockets. This is really sad state of affairs in this day and age. I don't really want to apply any "jack" for getting out of turn allotments because I don't see myself as asking for favours for a car of all things. Lets see how this turns out.

[infotech58]

Originally Posted by rbarney

Thanks infotech58. There is only one dealer in Bangalore and he isn't even willing to provide me a test drive car even to my office which is nearly 10KMs from dealer's office. I must go visit the dealer showroom for test drive. Moreover, I live on the other side of Bangalore and if the behaviour is this during test drive, I don't think regular service will be any better so although I have tried this, I am skipping Nissan Sunny given this limitation as well.

That is true about most Nissan dealerships in country; browse through forums and you shall find each Nissan Sunny owner complaining about bad experience at the dealership. I guess Nissan Dealers are all up to replace TATA/FIAT as worst experience in the country.

[explorer09]

Have a question. I still keep coming across this phrase "Skoda A.S.S horror stories" but is it still relevant/applicable even for the Fabia/Rapid. I can understand it was bad for the Octavia since they had to import every single spare part resulting in large turnaround times and high price. But maybe things have changed/improved for the Fabia/Rapid.

Can someone ( ideally Fabia/Rapid owners ) throw more light on this. It seems many potential Rapid owners are shying away from this car just for this one reason. I personally havent yet bought a Skoda car but sometime back I had test driven the Rapid and had absolutely loved it.

[Concorde]

Originally Posted by arununo

Hi everyone!

My predicted usage: In a month, City use-300Kms Highway use - 300Kms. Sedate driving style with occasional sprints. Self driven. I am 6ft tall, so driver seat comfort, under thigh support mean a lot to me.

The Contenders:

The Italian Job: Fiat Linea MJD Emotion

Skoda Rapid:

Discussion: Heart says Fiat, Mind says Skoda. What do you have to say?

Arun

The Fiat ticks all the boxes for you. Has better front seat support, solid built and safety, good highway manners, much better air conditioning than the Skoda and lower maintenance costs. After Sales can be a pain sometimes but that is true with Skoda as well and a Skoda typically is much more expensive to maintain than its competitors. You could pull off nice discounts and freebies on Fiat till they get things into place and I expect things to get a little better when Fiat goes alone. Fiat is yet to prove that to us though. Fingers crossed. Good luck with your purchase.