[IshaanIan]

For a growing family, my conscience is never clear recommending a brand new diesel car that fulfills such expectable requirements at the price you stated.

It is simply impossible to find a safe, comfortable, spacious, new diesel car that one can take on roadtrips at this price.

Small hatchbacks/ superminis like the i20, etios, punto etc. will always leave you wanting more when you have a family going on roadtrips, Also, after viewing the latest news and videos, I am pretty sure that apart from the european and american companies every one is cutting corners when it comes to safety, more importantly the structural rigidity of their cars in this segment.
Basic 3 box saloons like the D-Zire, Xcent etc. will solve the issue of boot space but my above fear of how safe they are, still remains.

You simply can't find a more premium diesel car with safety features

If you still think buying a new car is the way to go let me also say that while it has become a LOT easier for an enthusiast to maintain a Ford or Fiat, I think it might do you good to stay away from the two brands as far as ease of maintenance goes.

IF my argument has swayed your decision in any way, do consider a used Corolla Altis Diesel

Cheers and Goodluck
Ishaan

PS: as far as which car you ought to let go if you get a bigger car, it has to be the Ritz since you feel more comfortable driving the Spark in the city which is what the smaller car's purpose ought to be reduced to after your new purchase.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by su1978

Hi friends, although i suggest cars to everyone who comes to me but when it comes to self, it is a nightmare choosing one.

Looking at your requirements I can think of two cars:

1) Maruti Suzuki Ciaz
2) Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDi.

Both the above cars are spacious and do possesses a decent sized boot that will gulp-in the luggage easily. Both run on the proven mill so reliability, FE, spares, service will not be an issue since you are a Maruti Suzuki customer.

Safety being your top priority, it will be seen only in the top-end variant so to add to the budget of 8.5L go to Maruti True Value and get the Ritz evaluated so by selling the Ritz you'll get the money to but the car without spending much. Do pah for some kind of discounts and that should get you one easily IMO.

Keep the Spark for city running.

All the best!

Originally Posted by StepUP!

Any specific reason why you want to retain both cars?

OP has said it already that he is in a dilemma as to which car to retain to make space for the newer one.

Anurag.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by su1978

Need help from experts as to which new vehicle/what make(sedan/hatchback/utility vehicle)/which fuel option will suit me and with which fuel option. I am not averse going for something that drives on CNG as well(something like Ertiga CNG). Last but not the least, vitamin-M constraint is always there and max budget is of 8-8.5 lakhs.

Ertiga seems like a logical choice in that list. ZXi/ZDi depends on how the breakup of your city and highway commute is.

Option 1: Retain Ritz diesel for city driving and go for Ertiga ZXi for highways. This would make sense if your city driving is a considerable fraction of your total running and you'll get the benefit of diesel in that context. For the highways, you'll have the Ertiga. If the highway runs are limited, the fuel cost for petrol Ertiga wouldn't be a big dent on your wallet since you are saving a lot more than that with your Ritz diesel in city trips.

Option 2: Retain Spark and go for Ertiga ZDi. Higher resale value of Ritz would probably ensure a lesser outflow from your pocket in this case. This would make sense if highway running is not a small fraction of your running and you are thinking to use the Ertiga in city driving more frequently. Please remember that the diesel Ertiga would be more economical to run than the petrol Spark even in city if you are okay with the bigger size. Think once more if you really see any value retaining the Spark in this case or sell both cars.

You can rule out CNG since it is typically only available in variant without safety features.

[volkman10]

With the price differential between Petrol Vs Diesel is easing out, suggest you go in for Ertiga ZXI ( facelift in mid 2015) and retain the Ritz .

[Aroy]

Ertiga diesel is your best bet. Lots of space, low running costs and good resale value. As your kids grow you will need more space both for them and for the luggage. That is where the last row and/or luggage space of Ertiga shines.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by zalaps

Hey su1978,
My close buddy is Chevy service adviser. As per his reports, Enjoy is creating quite a few issues as running increases. Enjoy ages too quickly. Sail is good product. But latest recalls & goof ups by Chevy doesn't inspire confidence to me. Enjoy & Sail are out for me.

Quanto is Ok one if you can digest looks & 3 potter.
Theoretically can't deny Linea!

Between Ertiga & Etios. I would advise Etios. Just have a look at maintenance schedule listed by amalji at below link. Toyota is must for high mileage owners!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3042936

Enjoy is doing okay IMHO - again that's the consistent feedback I've heard from cabbies. Having said that, for the OP, Etios is what will give him the safety kit he needs within his price.

Originally Posted by RavSam

Now from your shortlist I would recommend Etios VD for space although it's boring to look at but will go on and on.

Agree on Etios wholeheartedly.

Dear su1978,

Let me ask you a contrarian question - do you REALLY need that new car? Except some possible wear/tear with Spark, your Ritz is actually pretty much in the prime of its health - three years and 43k is nothing. My swift VDi still feels totally FTD after almost 120k on the odo in six years.

Assuming you continue to split across two cars - your per car running is quite low, thus you needn't bother with a diesel at this stage.

To me, your main gripes are:

• Space on highway drives (Once in 3 months a drive of about 1000 kms) - both seating as well as luggage.
• Safety kit.

I hate to say this to you, but you CANNOT greatly improve things in your current budget, period.

You can definitely get a Manza / Etios in that price (just about) which will meet your requirements.

However, if the primary concern is safety on long drives, consider two unique options:
a. Renting a XUV or Ecosport on long drives. Even an XUV comes for 4200/day. That gives you ultimate amount of space for very little extra cost spend for an year or so till you can save up more for a better car. Your two cars can pull for another 3-4 years peacefully.
b. How about the used i20 CRDi? Not FTD but the earlier version had variants with curtain airbags etc. If you truly think of safety then think beyond just the driver airbags since your wife and kids will be sitting in the rear seat. Having said that, most cars in India (non SUV/non Verito) cannot handle two car seats in the rear seat. A bit more could get you early edition used XUVs too!

But again if you're concerned about safety on long drives AND space for kids to jump around, forget everything and just inculcate the habit of car seats in them. Seriously!

[su1978]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Enjoy is doing okay IMHO - again that's the consistent feedback I've heard from cabbies. Having said that, for the OP, Etios is what will give him the safety kit he needs within his price.


Agree on Etios wholeheartedly.

Dear su1978,

Let me ask you a contrarian question - do you REALLY need that new car? Except some possible wear/tear with Spark, your Ritz is actually pretty much in the prime of its health - three years and 43k is nothing. My swift VDi still feels totally FTD after almost 120k on the odo in six years.

Assuming you continue to split across two cars - your per car running is quite low, thus you needn't bother with a diesel at this stage.

To me, your main gripes are:

• Space on highway drives (Once in 3 months a drive of about 1000 kms) - both seating as well as luggage.
• Safety kit.

I hate to say this to you, but you CANNOT greatly improve things in your current budget, period.

You can definitely get a Manza / Etios in that price (just about) which will meet your requirements.

However, if the primary concern is safety on long drives, consider two unique options:
a. Renting a XUV or Ecosport on long drives. Even an XUV comes for 4200/day. That gives you ultimate amount of space for very little extra cost spend for an year or so till you can save up more for a better car. Your two cars can pull for another 3-4 years peacefully.
b. How about the used i20 CRDi? Not FTD but the earlier version had variants with curtain airbags etc. If you truly think of safety then think beyond just the driver airbags since your wife and kids will be sitting in the rear seat. Having said that, most cars in India (non SUV/non Verito) cannot handle two car seats in the rear seat. A bit more could get you early edition used XUVs too!

But again if you're concerned about safety on long drives AND space for kids to jump around, forget everything and just inculcate the habit of car seats in them. Seriously!

@phamilyman- u have hit the nail just on the head. I am also in quite a dilemma whether to actually go for a new car just for some heck of it. Its completely true that my Ritz VDI is in the prime of its youth-Performance and i myself am not able to digest the fact about selling off my car and go for a new one. Spark also feels completely at home other than some minor hiccups that it has given me because of the fact that i had left it parked for quite some time and driving it only around 500 kms in one year or so. Now i know one more reason why cars manufactured in previous year fetch more discount.

As far as saftey is concerned, i can control my speed and also handle others on the road. Rest i leave to God. Buying used stuff never appealed to me right from my college days.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Now if I were to replace it - I would have the following considerations:

• Closely meet or exceed the overall Swift experience - Fun to drive, frugal, competent on the highways (quick to brake, quick to accelerate), mostly reliable in the first 80k of ownership
• Frugal engine - My wife has this one criterion only
• Airbags (and ABS if possible) - You only live once. I may concede on this aspect if I buy the Innova because that is darned expensive on road.
• Should not be too tough to park – Our underground parking is quite narrow and the swift fits in easily. The Innova etc will need much cajoling.
• Long warranty (150k ideally) – the 80k extended warranty from Maruti is NOT enough for me.
• Warranty on repairs – Maruti does NOT give warranty on repairs. I am NOT keen to go back to them for this single reason. Infact, the turbocharger failure is the single cause for my anxiety over the car’s reliability.
• Decent service in Gurgaon (I will fathom this myself). Back in 2008, I had dropped Fiat on this reason itself, all because of Dhingra Motors.

Nice to have stuff:

• Comfortable ride – I would be okay with the ride provided by Duster which is awesome in bad roads as well, unlike Ertiga which is quite swiftlike in its bad road approach and is NOT fun to drive.
• Ability to carry a cycle or two – esp if it’s a SUV/MUV! Can I carry a roadbike with its tyres detached, in the rear boot of a Quanto?
• 4x4. I haven’t thought about it in depth, but I am no tanveer. I have not really done those kinda trips in a long time, nor do I fancy doing them with a kid. I will encounter
• Under body protection. Else I will get it done myself at my contact – just like I did for the swift.
• Lie down / flat bed – I remember pics from the Evalia review, where you can roll up middle/ last row of seats and then Daksh can have a play area to himself. It becomes a veritable camping ground too ! But its not too safe IMHO. You can do this in a way with Ertiga, but not much.

Note that I have excluded the following:

• Good looks
• Good looking interiors (though i love the utalitarian interiors in ertiga and micra for instance, i dont care about i20)
• Tata and associated brands
• Maruti – Because of the warranty angle. I may choose them again, but honestly, their policies and approach to warranty does not inspire one bit of confidence.

SO what am I considering?
Nissan Sunny / Evalia
Renault Duster
Scorpio 4x4 - it will be a good go-anywhere vehicle
Quanto? Its a hatchback on steroids and I need to see whether it gives more value or not.
Ford Figo (if I settle back into a hatch) / Ecosport

The wheel has turned full circle. It is now 4+ years since that post. We kept the swift. It has done duty nicely with zero niggles. It stands at 142k km. I can keep it for longer - it brings a smile on my face everytime, but the NGT order curtailing its registration to 10 years, forces my hand. By now the wife and son are both tired as well. My team-bhp buddies have made a standing joke out of it as well.

My requirements have changed as well. All I care about are (growing old ain't I?):

• Automatic - Having tried a few such cars, and after recent horror jams in Delhi (1.5 hours for 3kms) during peak marriage days - this is a must-have.
• Driver airbag - My son (5.5 yo) sits in the front seat as my co-passenger on most evenings (i pick him up from school). He still loves his car seat and we are contemplating buying another one for him (not a booster which is less comfortable). I am not favoring cars with 2 airbags for this one reason. I am a bit confused and will search more - no car offers easy passenger airbag deactivation.
• Fun to drive - the swift 2008 diesel is a FUN point and shoot vehicle. Frankly even the Creta doesnt come that close to my swift's rowdy nature.
• Good suspension and good ground clearance - Gurgaon roads are horrible. Our PWD is the biggest cheats and thieves in the country - nothing changes irrespective of governments, so I have decided to get a vehicle that tames the terrain. It helps on tours as well. Plus I don't baby my car on speed breakers. I don't want a car that handles an unnoticed gurgaon speed breaker by delivering a right hook to my solar plexus!
• 4x4 - This is a bit of a long wish. With the wife and kid, trips are no longer cross-country. We do the occasional hill run but it is not meant to be used in conditions requiring 4x4. Frankly this is sort of pushed down in the list because there's only one vehicle that meets it - the XUV W10 AWD. I can afford it, but I am not convinced of the value.
• Petrol, if possible. Gurgaon (and most of India in general) becomes an unbreathable polluted wasteland in winters. God has been kind - I'd rather buy a petrol even at my ~15-20k/year running and pollute less. After dieselgate, I don't trust mfrs anymore. But I'm yet to do the math (net particulates/km driven) on this.

I test drove a few cars today. My feedback is summarized below. Please suggest what else I should look for, and any criteria I would add.

[narayans80]

Some thoughts:

1. If you want a petrol automatic, you should also try Vento and Polo TSI. I had test driven the Vento TSI. The suspension is OK, I don't know how it respond if you drive 'I won't baby my car'. Another car in the price band is Ecosport AT.
2. For suspension, only the Fiats, Tatas and the Duster come to mind. Tata has the Zest XTA among automatics. Am not sure you'd look at Hexa.
3. Not knowing your budget, would you look at D1 segment automatics?
4. Verna facelift is coming up in 6 months. Looks are subjective. But if you are seriously considering Verna you might want to wait for it.
5. I can recollect Verito being the only car with good suspension and comes with one airbag. VW cars I think have an option to toggle passenger airbag

[bblost]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

[*]Driver airbag - My son (5.5 yo) sits in the front seat as my co-passenger on most evenings (i pick him up from school). He still loves his car seat and we are contemplating buying another one for him (not a booster which is less comfortable). I am not favoring cars with 2 airbags for this one reason. I am a bit confused and will search more - no car offers easy passenger airbag deactivation.

My daughter is six years old and sits in a booster seat in the rear. It's very comfortable. Our highway drives are quite a lot and she is always strapped in.

I don't think this point of yours makes much sense. Please buy a car with as many airbags as you can afford.

[phamilyman]

Thanks for the replies gents.

Originally Posted by narayans80

Some thoughts:

1. If you want a petrol automatic, you should also try Vento and Polo TSI. I had test driven the Vento TSI. The suspension is OK, I don't know how it respond if you drive 'I won't baby my car'. Another car in the price band is Ecosport AT.
2. For suspension, only the Fiats, Tatas and the Duster come to mind. Tata has the Zest XTA among automatics. Am not sure you'd look at Hexa.
3. Not knowing your budget, would you look at D1 segment automatics?
4. Verna facelift is coming up in 6 months. Looks are subjective. But if you are seriously considering Verna you might want to wait for it.
5. I can recollect Verito being the only car with good suspension and comes with one airbag. VW cars I think have an option to toggle passenger airbag

1. VW family - TSI wasnt available today for TD. Vento TSI is too much money for not enough additional car/space.
Ecosport AT is lovely but lethargic.
2. No Tata or Fiat.
3. Can afford - but see zero value in them to be honest. Frankly I got a wide enough smile pasted on my face with the cars today - I have no desire for an Elantra, besides the higher repair cost / pain in parking.
4. Good point. Maybe I'll get a better deal now itself using it as a bargaining tool
5. VW cars don't have that option - not even Vento.

Originally Posted by bblost

My daughter is six years old and sits in a booster seat in the rear. It's very comfortable. Our highway drives are quite a lot and she is always strapped in.

I don't think this point of yours makes much sense. Please buy a car with as many airbags as you can afford.

Booster seats have no issues when used in the rear. The problem is always in the front. He would want a proper seat (not just the base) which allows him to sit / sleep just fine.

So our constraint is that he strongly likes to sit in the front seat - thats why it was moved in the front permanently.

http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/choo...d-child-seats/ and other sites are a fair bit confusing in this very regard. e.g

If there are other types of airbag in the car, check the vehicle handbook or ask the vehicle manufacturer how far they come out as they deploy and whether it is safe to use a child seat near the airbag.

Of course I've not made my decision but I want to make sure that I'm not inadvertently making the car less safe for him.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Attachment 1601670

Phamilyman - I think you might, with some benefit, check out the new Honda Jazz. The new, well, 2016, model, has dual airbags and ABS. Very car like handling, decent interiors, nippy honda responsiveness (no, not as much as the Amaze or Brio, but still very decent, based on the City after all).

The older generation Jazz I drove as a Myles car some months back had some very decent features even in the SV mid range model - such as a reverse camera. That and/or a reverse parking sensor is invaluable in crowded parking like in Gurgaon.

Or check out the City, or maybe the Amaze CVT if you are ok with a smaller and rather lower powered but very nippy car.

Note - these are very much city and main highway cars, the ground clearance etc aren't all that good if you want to offroad so don't even think about the 4x4 option, rent a Thar or Scorpio or something for those moments.

[blackwasp]

I know you've mentioned no Fiats, but I'd like to point out some points.
1. Passenger airbag can be deactivated
2. Fun to drive - 90hp diesel as well as the Abarth Punto
3. Can gobble up bad roads easily

IIRC, Duster is available in AMT option. That is a good choice as well.

[autorahul]

If I have to summarise your requirements over the year, and merging them, considering that the new ones are on a higher priority, and that you have decided to settle with few of the older ones, we get this list

• Automatic
• Driver airbag
• Fun to drive
• Good suspension and good ground clearance
• 4x4 - This is a bit of a long wish.
• Petrol
• Closely meet or exceed the overall Swift experience - Fun to drive, frugal, competent on the highways (quick to brake, quick to accelerate), mostly reliable in the first 80k of ownership
• Frugal engine
• Should not be too tough to park in narrow space
• Long warranty (150k ideally)
• Warranty on repairs
• Decent service in Gurgaon
• Comfortable ride
• Ability to carry a cycle or two – esp if it’s a SUV/MUV
• Under body protection. Else I will get it done myself at my contact
• Lie down / flat bed

Going by this list,I feel one car that definitely should be on your list is the Honda BR-V.

1. Going over the points you have mentioned:
2. It has a proven reliable automatic, which is amongst the smoothest in the segment, mated to a very reliable and efficient engine, along with paddle shifters.
3. Airbags and ABS are both present in the AT variant.
4. The Team BHP review gave it good marks on the ride and handling departments too. Fun to drive nature of the CVT is on your inspection.
5. The 1.5 iVTec engine continues to be a gem and is extremely smooth with its power delivery.
6. Considering the narrower dimensions when comparing to most other cars in the segment, parking and manoeuvring should not be too difficult either.
7. The BR-V also has unlimited warranty for 3 years, with options to extend it. You may need to check on warranty on repairs part.
8. Honda also has pretty good service, and in my experience, Pearl Honda service opposite Ardee City has been pretty good.
9. Considering the space generated by folding BR-V's third row, I don't think a cycle or 2 will pose much of an issue.
10. You would need to check whether there is underbody protection. If not, as mentioned, you could get it done outside.
11. Flat bed can again be checked in person, though I don't think its available

Additionally, it comes at nearly a lakh lower when compared to Creta.

If you can let go of some MPV/SUV characteristics, there is a new model of City launching in a couple of weeks, and good discounts going on with the current one.

PS: Creating a play area in the third row of seats for your son, might make the back seats more attractive to him. My sister tried the same formula with her son and succeeded.

[hserus]

@phamilyman - yeah, BR-V might actually be better than the Jazz - but well, for majority city use the jazz is going to be just that much more manoeuvrable in heavy traffic, and it'll take a bike rack just fine, is roomy etc.

Try BR-V or CR-V as well, along with the Jazz, see what you decide on finally. I'd say you're looking at / near the top end model of each in any case because of your requirement for an automatic, so the cost difference will be significant between Jazz, BR-V and CR-V. That might be a factor too.