[revharder]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

And I suppose it is the scrap kind of cars that are selected for track events ? Common guys, be rational. The very fact that it is selected for track events proves the performance edge it has over other cars. True that the Esteem has been here for 12 years or so. But how does it become outdated ? I mean, do we have some cutting-edge engine technology available in the Flair, Indigo etc which makes the Esteem obsolete ? No. All that has become outdated is the looks. If someone is ready to live with that, I would say, Why not?

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I have never been in the rear seat of the Esteem or Flair, but from the looks of it, both seem equally cramped.

haha, you are very quick to just pick some words and then deriving strange meanings out of them!
well, do you think track cars will do better in city conditions?!
well, this is not the proper place to discuss that, so leave it for a while.

and yes, esteem looks and feels and gives outdated feel!
you said you never sat in the rear seats of esteem or flair then how can you be so sure of this comparo?
ikon has the best rear seat with ample legroom and elbowroom in its category.
whereas esteem feels as if we are sitting on the ground!
sit in them for some 2 hour journey and then tell me the difference.

and why i labelled esteem as scrap coz with so many shortcomings it is nothing better than that, and more so when you have so many better alternatives right in front of you which are also quite cheaper!

no doubt, esteem has a nice and peppy engine and being a MUL product it has cheaper-to-own factor playing in its favour, but what about the comfort levels? and what about the safety ? esteems are prone to get damaged seriously even with very small mishaps!

estemm is here for over 12 years, that itself makes it outdated.
it is looking more or less as same as its ancestors!
whereas Ikon looks much more fresh and recently with the introduction of earlier SXi's bumpers, it looks much more better than its earlier avtaar!

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Could you please explain the "safest" part of the Flair with respect to the other cars in 5L category ?
I have never been in the rear seat of the Esteem or Flair, but from the looks of it, both seem equally cramped.

safest meant it is much more safer in terms of investment of money!!
however, ikon are not unbreakable, but still, much more tout build than an esteem. esteem gives very good performance and driving pleasure,no doubt, but being such a low-sitting car, it gives some scary feelings on road while being stuck in traffic jams alongwith trucks and buses!
also it doesnot gives that feeling of being planted-onto-road feel which you gets in ikon.


well, please donot get offended by any of my personal opinions, please.

[nitinhegde]

very well said revharder - BINGO !
You hit the nail on the head

[prince85]

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

sorry to say but yrs is a very biased opinion.

There's famous saying "Monkey praising its own tail"...
and before Mod's warns me of personal attacks - let me be very clear that its a saying and should not be taken in the literal sense

What makes you feel that i am being biased??? I said that the Esteem is more powerful than the Ikon Flair, isn't it true???? Don't tell me you are not aware of that.

And about Esteem giving the Baleno a run for its money,..........For your kind information, Esteem does 0-100 in 11.4secs and Baleno does the same in 11.6 secs according to ACI.

Biased towards what my dear friend???? Heck i own both the esteem and the Baleno and love both my cars equally.... SO how can i be biased comparing both the cars i have????

Infact i can say that you are being biased just because you own an Ikon

I was talking about performance alone and i cannot understand your point at all.

And about your Donkey issue, you type in a certain phrase and that makes you feel you rule(smiley), Wierd!!!. i prefer to be silent and show a bit more maturity on that front atleast

[prince85]

BTW, some one please think of our dear friend ICEMANZ, he is looking for a sedan with a budget of 5L- Esteem, Ikon Flair, Indigo D

He daily usage is very less - Indigo D does not make sense

FE(the more the merrier) - Esteem beats the Ikon Flair

Monthly Maintenence - Esteem beats Flair again since its cheaper to maintain and service

IMHO, Its Esteem all the way for this guy. Look guys, we are trying to help ICEMANZ considering his needs alone, so i think it will be great if we give his needs top priority in this thread atleast. Otherwise this thread is never going to end. Both are not perfect cars. To each his own.

[prince85]

Originally Posted by prince85

And about your Donkey issue, you type in a certain phrase and that makes you feel you rule(smiley), Wierd!!!. i prefer to be silent and show a bit more maturity on that front atleast

Hey Nitin dude i am sorry about that amigo, i accidently put the smiley after the donkey phrase of yours in your quote and thought you typed it that way. My apologies man for the bu-bu man

[panky12345]

IMO, u shd go in for Esteem anyday!!

[nitinhegde]

prince85 chill man ! you get provoked too soon dude.....
have fun...don't take it so literally,its a saying(Proverb) after all ! my dad tells me that when I try to flatter myself

[prince85]

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

prince85 chill man ! you get provoked too soon dude.....
have fun...don't take it so literally,its a saying(Proverb) after all ! my dad tells me that when I try to flatter myself

Cool with me amigo, but in which way do you feel i am trying to flatter myself????. Bro, you were laughing out loud when i said that the Esteem is indeed more powerful than the Ikon Flair, does that sound like a joke to you???? If it does then i guess your knowledge about cars needs a serious crash course before you post here.

For your further education, Ikon Flair 1.3 gives out 70bhp against the Esteem MPFI which gives out 85bhp. Hope that clears your doubts, but if you still feel like i am trying to flatter myself then well.......................

And about getting provoked,, i don't get provoked that easily, i just feel good to spread the little correct knowledge which i possess like the above. Thats what i feel about T-BHP, its a great place to learn and educate ourselves about cars.


Cheers

[speedbuster]

Originally Posted by prince85

Bro, you were laughing out loud when i said that the Esteem is indeed more powerful than the Ikon Flair, does that sound like a joke to you????
For your further education, Ikon Flair 1.3 gives out 70bhp against the Esteem MPFI which gives out 85bhp. Hope that clears your doubts, but if you still feel like i am trying to flatter myself then well.......................
Cheers

pls look below

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

Esteem is cheaper I agree but why drive a car which you don't like ??I did not want to buy an Esteem just because it has cheaper spares/higher FE than Flair/ "RELATIVELY Low cost of ownership"..Overall as per my list of priorities,Flair scored over Esteem and hence I bought it - period

I am still trying to figure out when did nitin said flair is more powerful than esteem?he just said its a better car


It was U who started this power game.

if esteem pumps of 15bhp more than flair, it dosent mean its a better car

there are numerous factors which count when you are buying a car, not just engine.

Ikon flair is better in overall package than esteem.

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by revharder

ikon has the best rear seat with ample legroom and elbowroom in its category.
whereas esteem feels as if we are sitting on the ground!
sit in them for some 2 hour journey and then tell me the difference.

the seats of Ikon are one of the best....Recently did Chail - Delhi flat 8 hours didnt feel a twitch in my whole body....
But beware the brakes of Ikon were pretty scary at times on the highway...

I dont support Esteem either...I feel except the engine there's nothing in this car...Very fragile body... U lean on the fender n it will bend....

Whereas the Ford has great chassis feels very strong n also the handling is superb in the hills.....

KP

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by prince85

He daily usage is very less - Indigo D does not make sense

Not necessarily my friend. Not necessarily.

[prince85]

Originally Posted by speedbuster

if esteem pumps of 15bhp more than flair, it dosent mean its a better car

there are numerous factors which count when you are buying a car, not just engine.

.

Very true my friend, but if you read carefully, nitinhegde and me are arguing over the power difference between the Flair and the Esteem, where he is just laughing out loud when i claimed that the Esteem is more powerful and quicker than the Ikon. Thats it. Last few posts are only to correct Nitin if he ever felt that the Flair was quicker.

I agree i started the power game here but Nitin's disagreement is evident in post No. 44 where he feels i am being biased when i say that the Esteem is quicker and more powerful than the Flair. He ends up quoting a phrase "Donkey praises his own tail"I am just trying to correct misconceptions, thats it!

[icemanz]

Phew!!...let me breath .
Guys, I appreciate your suggestions, comments. Its nice to know all about different cars here. Nitin <-> Supremo....wow...u guys almost got into a tussle for me. thanks guys.

After reading for almost an hr...I can say am completly bowled out. Before posting the thread I was atleast in favor of esteem...now!!!
Would buying a bike be a better idea??

Ok..here's wot I plan to do. I will finish my driving lesons in next few days, will definitely go for test drive for -Esteem vxi, Flair 1.3, Indigo dlx and petra D.
But being a new driver, I somehow feel I won't be able to judge wots best with test drive ( what do u guys have to say on this?)

I got quatations for Esteem Vxi from 3 dealers in Cochin. the best one was
Esteem vxi - 5.08L with alloywheels (instead of accessories worth 10K), 1yr service package(free painting etc etc)

Will check for other cars n keep u guys posted.

Am still inclined to Esteem for following reasons -
FE, low maintenance, inexpensive spares, easy service.

These days hearing alot obout Petra..getting crurious to check out this car as well.

Thanks guys...keep posting.

Regards,
ICEMAN.

[prince85]

Originally Posted by icemanz

Am still inclined to Esteem for following reasons -
FE, low maintenance, inexpensive spares, easy service.
ICEMAN.

Nothing beats the Esteem on those parameters and add to it a wide network of A**.

Also i suggest if you deciede to buy the Esteem,try to get a cash discount in exchange of alloy wheels.. The reason being the variety with the dealership is always limited and also they are known to charge high prices. If you want to go in for alloys, you can always turn to the aftermarket where you can get a variety of designs at much lower prices

Anyways, i suggest you to test-drive the cars you have in mind and then come to the conclusion.

Coming to petra, well it beats the Esteem as well as the Ikon by a country mile. Its a much better car. But Fiat A** is always under the hammer and i hear that the spares are more expensive. The petra is also known to be thirstier compared to the Esteem and the Ikon Flair. But if you consider the Petra D, then its a very econimcal car with regards to FE. And make no mistakes about it coz its strong, very powerful(1.6), build quality is amazing and its much more spacious compared to the Ikon/Esteem. Correct me if i am wrong guys. Take care.

Cheers

[revharder]

Originally Posted by icemanz

Am still inclined to Esteem for following reasons -
FE, low maintenance, inexpensive spares, easy service.

and what about the following aspects:
- comfort,
- legroom, elbowroom, headroom,
- interiors (comapre the dash of esteem to any other car available in its category!)
- ease of entry/exit,
- better looks,
- better safety,
- planted-to-road feel,
- bigger boot,
-
-
etc., etc. ?!!

also, please don't get me wrong, but imho, you'll not be able to distinguish much in these cars as you are not very much into cars. so it is better to take some friend with you to whom you trusts and ask him to take the steering and you try sitting in different seats.
well, its just a suggestion.