[icemanz]

Now here's the deal...i calld up TATA dealer to get quote for Petra and got to know that the car has been discontinued :(
Well history repeats... I had a gr8 offer for Opel Corsa 1.4 fully loaded with alloy wheels and mp3 systems, 3 yrs warranty,service and insurrance for 4.5L, all my friends, bro n dad ruled against me going for it saying that since car is discontinued- service will b prob, spares r costly n poor resale value.

So now now...Esteem n Indigo DLS.

Regards,
ICEMAN

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by icemanz

Now here's the deal...i calld up TATA dealer to get quote for Petra and got to know that the car has been discontinued :(

Iceman, This is false information! Petra is very much in production and is available for purchase, but it will be sold only by Fiat exclusive dealers. Tata-Fiat dealers won't be selling Petra since it competes with their own product (Indigo). Just check out if there is a Fiat exclusive dealer in Cochin. If you are unable to locate, mail: service@fiat.com and find out.

[revharder]

good luck and good wishes to icemanz for his car selection procedure!

[sujaylahiri]

In case u guys are interested about the Ikon's history, The Ford Ikon is a sedan version of the Ford Fiesta on the Ford B platform. It is manufactured and sold in India, South Africa, Mexico and China.

Check out this link for its entire history. The current Ikon is the Mark V version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fiesta

The Maruti Esteem is based on the Suzuki Swift as we all know. There was a time in North America when Suzuki Swifts sold like Maruti 800s in India.
Here is its history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Swift

I would personally prefer the Esteem for its performance. I just love the way it accelerates in the 3rd and 4th gear. Initial acceleration is a bit sluggish though. It's perfect for a rolling start drag race.
But that's for a person like me who mostly cares about performance in a car.

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@WhiteKnight, definitely a nice idea. But how do we decide what is fact and what is fiction ? Say, you want to know the FE of a particular car and try to checkout the auto-mags, which are supposed to have the facts. You will find that each one has a different FE reported for the same car. Which one will you take as fact ? Same goes to asking actual owners. Before I bought my car, I asked a few owners. One mentioned 11kmpl which seemed like true to me. Another guy who was coming out of the ABT service centre mentioned 15kmpl. I was stunned and till date I am not sure whether he was telling the fact or playing a joke.

Wow, this thread exploded in last few days.

You are right, people tend to play up their ego, when they talk about their car. Only thing we can do is compile all and take weighted average, weightage being the expertise of the person/magazine.
I feel FE figures in ACI are the closest to reality.

Back to the thread. My uncle recently bought Ikon flair, so we did a side by side comparison with my Esteem. New Flair with the 1.6 parts looks much better than the old Flair.

What I couldn't digest is the inclined parcel tray at the rear of the Flair. This is the only car I've seen with an Inclined parcel tray. My take is that the Ford engineers had a tough time in integrating the boot with the rest of the car, which is very evident when you view the car from the side.

Btw, any ideas to make the tray level?

[supremeBaleno]

Looks like over the weekend this thread grew to double its size.

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

supremebaleno, I can understand that you are a Maruti fan

I missed replying to this one earlier. Let me first correct you by saying that I admire Suzuki (MUL is just the local guys churning out cars having Suzuki tech) for their practical and reliable cars. And this admiration did not come by reading about their cars in magazines or surfing the web. This is from actual usage of their cars during the past 20 years. Nitin, your experience with the Flair is just 2 months and already you are pushing it as the best car in the segment. If just 2 months of usage can make you a Ford fan, is it wrong of me being a Suzuki fan after a 20-year long +ve experience with their cars ?

Originally Posted by revharder

you said you never sat in the rear seats of esteem or flair then how can you be so sure of this comparo? whereas esteem feels as if we are sitting on the ground!

If you noticed, I mentioned that both look cramped, which means to a layman, the space available in the rear looks less than what is required to seat 3 people comfortably. I am not a rear seat guy - prefer to drive the car - and thus never felt the need to check out the rear seat. Ofcourse, I agree that the Esteem is kind of low, so you might feel as if sitting on the ground. Had the same feeling in my '85 M800.

Originally Posted by revharder

and why i labelled esteem as scrap coz with so many shortcomings it is nothing better than that, and more so when you have so many better alternatives right in front of you which are also quite cheaper!

It would be better to weigh cars properly before making loaded comments like "scrap" etc. Every car has some negatives for each person and no car is a 100% fit.

Originally Posted by revharder

no doubt, esteem has a nice and peppy engine and being a MUL product it has cheaper-to-own factor playing in its favour, but what about the comfort levels? and what about the safety ? esteems are prone to get damaged seriously even with very small mishaps!

Don't tell me that Ford is safer on the roads. A newer look does not necessarily mean safety. What safety feature does it have that the Esteem does not ??? Safety features like ABS, airbags etc are not present in either car. So, meaningless to talk about safety. And BTW, I do not think that a car that breaks into 2 pieces can qualify as a safe car, by any stretch of imagination.

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

Speedbuster ,thanks for clarifying..
As rightly pointed out by many others - revharder,speedbuster - the argument was not at all based on power...I laughed aloud at you since you tend to live in a dream world of Maruti Udyog Limited and tend to ignore the other grey areas which are very important for an overall package...

To be frank, your sarcastic remark (using a proverb) was in response to @prince's comments on power comparison of the 2 cars. Please check post no.44.

Originally Posted by nitinhegde

I would suggest you go for Esteem if you do not wish to budge from this list..Buy a Car you like and before deciding re-visit your likings/dislikings and priorities...Later on,you must not rue on your decision.

If he goes for Esteem, the only thing he might rue is the fact that the car's looks are dated. Otherwise, he is going to be one happy owner.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Guys after going through all the replies.... i would suggest Icey to close his eyes and go for Indigo Diesel. The reason is, its got the best of both the Ikon and the Esteem. Its safe, looks better (than esteem atleast) , Cheap Spares, Fuel Average wont be a problem, reasonable performance, solid and safe on the highways, well planted feel, lots of space (better both ikon n esteem here)... the only negetive is niggling issues which "may" crop from time to time, else its a completely reliable and a fine car.

Looks wise, I would rate the Flair first, followed by Esteem and finally the Indigo. IMO the Indigo looks different, even awkward and that does not mean better. The way you mention the niggling issues, it would seem it is a normal thing to be taken in one's stride. I don't know about you, but if I am spending 5L of my money on a car, I do not expect any issues atleast for the 1st 5 years, if not more.

Icemanz, testdrive all the cars that fit in your budget. Take a friend along if you are not sure that you will be able to judge the cars due to inexperience. List down all the factors that matter to you and identify the car that matches the most.

[menonrajesh]

..and..wassup there icemanz?? Any updates?? Would love to hear about ur decision..

Cheers
Menon

[revharder]

supremebaleno,
excuse me, and please stop quoting my replies and stop being such a hyperactive person.

esteem is a very good car and much better than Ikon or anything else.
let him buy esteem and let him remain happy with that.

i am unable to repeat my words again and again in every reply to you, i feels no need to give you anymore justifications in support of my views.

if you still wants me to post a reply to you than go back and start reading all my posts once again.

buttttt, please leave me, please.

[nitinhegde]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Looks like over the weekend this thread grew to double its size.

I missed replying to this one earlier. Let me first correct you by saying that I admire Suzuki (MUL is just the local guys churning out cars having Suzuki tech) for their practical and reliable cars. And this admiration did not come by reading about their cars in magazines or surfing the web. This is from actual usage of their cars during the past 20 years. Nitin, your experience with the Flair is just 2 months and already you are pushing it as the best car in the segment. If just 2 months of usage can make you a Ford fan, is it wrong of me being a Suzuki fan after a 20-year long +ve experience with their cars ?

I am neither a Maruti nor a Ford fan...just listed out few other aspects to bring in other cars into contention just in case ICEMANZ missed out on some finer points..I repeat - Its Subjective !

[sivadas]

I wouldn't suggest esteem. It's back seats are one the worst I have ever sat. Also, I hate the shape of it from long time (which is the very basic sedan shape carried over from Maruti 1000 era). Though, both Flair and indigo lacks power compared to esteem, they offer much better comfort.

Eventually ICEMANZ needs to decide. Before choosing , let him test drive these cars and also compare points listed out here.

[supremeBaleno]

O.T. :
@revharder, I am sorry if I offended you, though I fail to understand what was it that offended you. Quoting is done not to irritate anyone - it is done so that people understand the context of an argument. Anyway, I will make sure that I remember not to engage in online conversation with you in the future.

[revharder]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

O.T. :
@revharder, I am sorry if I offended you, though I fail to understand what was it that offended you. Quoting is done not to irritate anyone - it is done so that people understand the context of an argument. Anyway, I will make sure that I remember not to engage in online conversation with you in the future.

thanx for the compliments, and yes, i am taking them positively.

quoting is not done to irritate anyone, i know that, but what is the use of repeating the same thing after every two days?
in all your "quotings", you have asked me things the answer to whom will be the same again. and i hate repeating same things again and again.

for me esteem is scrap on city roads and it'll remain like that only.
no matter how hard you want to argue with me.
it is good only on tracks, the best place for it.
this is MY OPINION and no one can change that.

period. and peace too.

[kpzen]

Hey... Icemanz ...
Whats the latest update...!!!Looks like u are inclined towards Fiat

Anyways dont think after reading this thread he'll buy an esteem ...

KP

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Don't tell me that Ford is safer on the roads. A newer look does not necessarily mean safety. What safety feature does it have that the Esteem does not ??? Safety features like ABS, airbags etc are not present in either car. So, meaningless to talk about safety. And BTW, I do not think that a car that breaks into 2 pieces can qualify as a safe car, by any stretch of imagination.

whoooooa man... are you blindly supporting esteem or what!
Do you know the ABC of car safety.... for Airbags to work you need to have a strong body shell first... Esteem isnt even as safe as a Santro!

I have seen people shouting how good esteem's performance is... but what abt accesible performance.. Which car would be more safer at 120-130 kph... an Indigo, Petra, Ikon or Esteem!
Grow Up dude!

[icemanz]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Iceman, This is false information! Petra is very much in production and is available for purchase, but it will be sold only by Fiat exclusive dealers. Tata-Fiat dealers won't be selling Petra since it competes with their own product (Indigo). Just check out if there is a Fiat exclusive dealer in Cochin. If you are unable to locate, mail: service@fiat.com and find out.

Thanks for the info Finneyp. I will surely checkput for fiat exclusive dealers. Will keep u posted on the same!!

Thanks for the best wishes revharder!!
GOD bless all my BHPian pals !!

Regards,
ICEMAN