[raghav135]

If I had to buy a diesel sedan, seems like skoda rapid DSG automatic seems to be the way forward.

I am reading in many places about positive changes in skoda management and customer focus, and they have the best product (IMHO), so would definitely prefer this over the others.

I recently test drove skoda rapid (manual) diesel and was completely blown away by the performance of this car, never expected so much power and so much response to the throttle input in any gear.

[neethi_raj]

Originally Posted by imp!

I would chose the Rapid diesel DSG if I were buying a diesel. I'd buy the Vento 1.2 TSI if I were buying a petrol, but I'd still by the Rapid if it were available with a competent Petrol automatic.

Thank you imp! for such insights. I will definitely consider your views while deciding. You have also told that the steering mounted audio controls are better in the Rapid. Could you please elaborate in it? Because, the Vento seems to have more controls (on both sides) and the Rapid seems to have only a few controls on one side only.

Originally Posted by Gannu_1

The facelifted Vento gets a new BCM which would support the cruise control addon which is merely a new stalk for the left side. Open the steering airbag, remove the old stalk, replace the new stalk, enable the cruise control setting on VCDS.

Thank you for your input. I am sure some Bhpian would attempt this shortly.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by neethi_raj

Thank you for your input. I am sure some Bhpian would attempt this shortly.

Wait for a while and Mr Gannu_1 himself will attempt this may be on his car.

What say Gannu?!

Originally Posted by Gannu_1

The facelifted Vento gets a new BCM which would support the cruise control addon which is merely a new stalk for the left side. Open the steering airbag, remove the old stalk, replace the new stalk, enable the cruise control setting on VCDS.

Anurag.

[magikrider]

Hello guys,

I am currently driving Mahindra XUV 500 (W8) and need a sedan mostly for city use. XUV will be mostly used for long highway trips. and its a bit cumbersome to drive in the city. spacially in bumper to bumper traffic. so I have narrowed mainly 3 cars. they are:

1. Honda City I-VTEC (Petrol) V/VX MT
2. VW Vento 1.5 TDI DSG Highline
3. SKODA Rapid 1.5 TDI DSG Elegance

Now I know the list has 1 Petrol and 2 Diesels. let me explain. I will be taking the car OTR Panvel, which is Octroi less. and the Price difference between the Honda City V-MT and the VW twins is roughly 2 lacs. the germans obviously being the costly ones. and the amount saved on petrol-diesel price difference will be approx 1.5 lacs, according to the current rate of fuels, if the car is driven for say 60,000 kms, which will take around 5-6 years at least as this is the second car. the average taken for calculation for petrol city is 11.5 kmpl (70% city, 30% highway) and the VW twins average taken for calculation is around 13.5 kmpl with similar city-highway use. I have taken the least possible average for all the cars for their lifetime use. 13.5 kmpl some might say is too less but i live in Mumbai and the traffic is pretty bad at peak time and a cousins Hyundai verna diesel MT gives him approx similar average so I have taken 13.5 kmpl for calculation. the Vento TSI was very refined and was reasonably quick but didn't find it as much fun to drive as the 1.6 TDI MT when I took a test drive sometime back. the torque in the diesel car is just addictive! plus the TSI, if driven with a heavy foot, can give the average in single digit. had seen the test drive car with avg of around 6.5 kmpl on the MID! so I better stick to diesels, which are fun to drive and fuel efficient as well. so won't be guilty for those fun long drives!

so 5-7 years down the line, after say around 60,000 kms, the cost of these cars (price and running cost) would come to similar amount. the Honda being cheaper initially but expensive to run and the VW twins command a premium initially but are cheaper to run. hence I have taken these 3 cars. they are reasonably fun to drive, comfortable and the best 3 options in their segment. haven't considered the verna. have driven cousins car and the handling didn't feel as good as the VW twins or even the city. plus the rear seat is too low. though its very refined and feels like a petrol to drive almost. haven't considered the fiesta as the diesel seems pretty underpowered and I want a car which has performance on tap and is comfortable, easy to maintain and reliable as well. though I know that VW and skoda with their DSG tranny are anything but reliable but I am thinking that the company might have sorted the issue now.

the advantage I have with the twins is that its equipped with a DSG tranny. which is a boon in city traffic. but as per the review, its not as explosive as the old 1.6 TDI! so is the performance as good or has it mellowed down now with 1.5 TDI? coz I had really enjoyed the TD of the vento 1.6 TDI. the dynamics are also good and was more fun to drive compared to the city, which I didn't find as good in handling dept. comparatively. also the car seemed better built compared to the city. city seemed too lightly built with a very thin sheet metal. and between the vento and rapid, which one would be a better bet? some say the rapid somehow seems better to drive and is more quite comparatively. also the suspension setup is better I read. haven't driven rapid yet.

with the city the advantage is that its very refined and the city MT is a reasonable fast and fun car to drive and since its a petrol, even the Manual transmission might not be much difficult to drive in traffic, with the clutch being light. plus you get the honda reliability and you don't have to worry for at least 5-7 years with a honda. the DSG might be a risk comparatively if the car is used for 6-7 years as the additional warranty is also for 2-3 years only. the city AT is not considered here as inspite being a petrol its more expensive than the VW-skoda diesel ATs and plus the CVT might not be as much fun to drive. am not considering the SV-CVT model coz its stripped down model with hardly any features plus not much interested in cvt.

So what do you guys think and suggest. I will again take a test drive of the City Petrol MT, Vento 1.6 TDI MT (the 1.5 TDI MT and DSG are yet not available for TD at the VW Downtown, worli in mumbai!!) and the Rapid 1.5 TDI DSG sometime soon.

[D4D]

Do you really need a full sized sedan with the boot just to keep going in Mumbai's B2B traffic?

If you don't need the boot, a hatch will do just fine. You could wait for Elite i20 AT which is supposed to come out soon.Also Jazz is going to be launched in early 2015.

If you need the boot, you could try the Amaze AT and the Zest diesel AMT. They are pretty impressive options and they are far cheaper.

Your options are good. Since you're keeping your car for 5 years, I would suggest the Skoda Rapid/VW Vento. 5 years hopefully shouldn't pose any problem.

Also may I add Nissan Sunny CVT to the list? It's a pretty good car and must be cheaper. (Though you'll spend a little extra for running)

Originally Posted by magikrider

Need a sedan mostly for city use. XUV will be mostly used for long highway trips. and its a bit cumbersome to drive in the city. Specially in bumper to bumper traffic.

[imp!]

Originally Posted by neethi_raj

Thank you imp! for such insights. I will definitely consider your views while deciding. You have also told that the steering mounted audio controls are better in the Rapid. Could you please elaborate in it? Because, the Vento seems to have more controls (on both sides) and the Rapid seems to have only a few controls on one side only.

Hi Neethi,

The steering mounted controls on the rapid feel more premium; I think that the Vento has bluetooth control on one side and media on the other whilst on the Rapid, they are both integrated on one side. As far as I remember, there is no loss of functionality for the Rapid controls.

[alavandar]

Hi, I will put across this way. City petrol is good and luxurious but I never had the planted feeling on road vis a vis the European siblings like Vento/ Linea/ Rapid. The later three Euro cars are good to drive. If you are going for diesel, please rule out Amaze / City Diesel since they are not as refined as Rapid or Vento. The build quality of Vento/ Rapid (and even the latest Linea) are good.Features wise, Rapid would score over Vento. As regards DSG, in the past failures/ recalls were reported earlier but VW stated that they have resolved the issues. Although DSG is being sold aggressively, for city stop and go traffic, I would still have gone for a manual option, looking at the history of DSG. So, my first choice would be Rapid 1.5L Diesel 5 speed Manual with black pack (projector lamps black grill etc) and second, if we are not risk averse Rapid 1.5 Diesel 7 speed DSG (projector lamp black grill etc).

[Rajeevraj]

With 70% City use, I would recommend an AT. Which means from your list it has to be the Vento or Rapid. Among them, since both are essentially the same cars, it depends on your personal preference on looks and feature differences.

Couple of other thoughts, since it primarily for city use, why not a hatch like the polo gt tsi. You save an additional couple of lakh's over the sedans and than can offset your petrol cost for a long time.

If it has to be a sedan, I would suggest a relook at the Vento TSI. Compare with the 1.5 TDI on performance and Fun to Drive factor. On efficiency, With 70% city driving, you are anyway not going to be driving extensively with a heavy foot. So you should get 10-12 in the City comfortably in D mode.

Another point to note: The S mode does not drop mileage drastically, I find driving in S mode with a light foot a good balance of performance and efficiency.

[lalittalwar]

Hi, looking at the kind of traffic you shall be encountering, I would say and automatic is a must. you may choose either a petrol or a diesel. I would go for the Vento TDI DSG personally. The difference in the 1.6 and 1.5 is not that noticeable, and is easily addressed by slotting the DSG in S mode, which always keeps the power ready to be unleashed at the slightest touch of the throttle.
also, do not get swayed by the MID figures for the TSI. I am assuming that your test drive would have lasted for about 10 mins only, which would include the startup and pedal to the metal drive to check the engine response. In such conditions, you will get only 6-7 kmpl. But, if you have a mix of driving style, including some spirited driving, you can expect the mileage to be upwards of 10. I have its sibling, the GT TSI and the lifetime mileage is about 12.5 kmpl in the first 2000 kms driven. I also drive through the traffic in delhi. On good days i also get about 15 kmpl from the car.

[magikrider]

Originally Posted by D4D

Do you really need a full sized sedan with the boot just to keep going in Mumbai's B2B traffic?

Yup. I need a Sedan only. don't want to go for a hatch as this may also be used as a chauffeured car down the line. and DSG with a chauffeur is a risk I know but might take that chance here. also the suspension setup, ride quality and everything in general are also usually better in sedans compared to their smaller siblings. like vento might be better than polo. I may be wrong here but I'd rather buy a sedan. though I must admit that the i20 elite is fully loaded and some more. but I love driving and hence would not prefer a hyundai. also not interested in Amaze or Zest. want a proper sedan. want something which I can use for long distance also once in a while. as who's knows, with a comfy DSG that city to highway ratio might just go from 70-30 to 60-40 or 55-45!

Originally Posted by alavandar

Hi, I will put across this way. City petrol is good and luxurious but I never had the planted feeling on road vis a vis the European siblings like Vento/ Linea/ Rapid. The later three Euro cars are good to drive. If you are going for diesel, please rule out Amaze / City Diesel since they are not as refined as Rapid or Vento. The build quality of Vento/ Rapid (and even the latest Linea) are good.Features wise, Rapid would score over Vento. As regards DSG, in the past failures/ recalls were reported earlier but VW stated that they have resolved the issues. Although DSG is being sold aggressively, for city stop and go traffic, I would still have gone for a manual option, looking at the history of DSG. So, my first choice would be Rapid 1.5L Diesel 5 speed Manual with black pack (projector lamps black grill etc) and second, if we are not risk averse Rapid 1.5 Diesel 7 speed DSG (projector lamp black grill etc).

Exactly my thoughts. I was a fan of the City. and now since I have test driven the Vento once, that has changed and now am more leaned towards Vento/Rapid. would not like to take a chance with Fiat. plus they don't have a nice powerful diesel AT sedan. and I want a easy to drive car hence the DSG. so I am taking my chances here.

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

If it has to be a sedan, I would suggest a relook at the Vento TSI. Compare with the 1.5 TDI on performance and Fun to Drive factor. On efficiency, With 70% city driving, you are anyway not going to be driving extensively with a heavy foot. So you should get 10-12 in the City comfortably in D mode.

Another point to note: The S mode does not drop mileage drastically, I find driving in S mode with a light foot a good balance of performance and efficiency.

Originally Posted by lalittalwar

also, do not get swayed by the MID figures for the TSI. I am assuming that your test drive would have lasted for about 10 mins only, which would include the startup and pedal to the metal drive to check the engine response. In such conditions, you will get only 6-7 kmpl. But, if you have a mix of driving style, including some spirited driving, you can expect the mileage to be upwards of 10. I have its sibling, the GT TSI and the lifetime mileage is about 12.5 kmpl in the first 2000 kms driven. I also drive through the traffic in delhi. On good days i also get about 15 kmpl from the car.

I would definitely take one more TD of the Vento TSI. though I really loved the torque of the 1.6 TDI. also I am thinking if its a petrol car, than Honda city is a better bet. its more reliable. but will test drive the TDI DSG, TSI DSG and the City MT and see how it goes.

also the MID showed the average of 6-7 kmpl which I am guessing must be either lifetime or since someone did the last reset. but it had a few test drives before mine and the milage was pretty scary! and the sports mode was really fun and I think will be addictive and so with that milage it would be a disaster. but I think it cannot be that bad. has to be something wrong there.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by magikrider

I would definitely take one more TD of the Vento TSI. though I really loved the torque of the 1.6 TDI. also I am thinking if its a petrol car, than Honda city is a better bet. its more reliable. but will test drive the TDI DSG, TSI DSG and the City MT and see how it goes.

also the MID showed the average of 6-7 kmpl which I am guessing must be either lifetime or since someone did the last reset. but it had a few test drives before mine and the milage was pretty scary! and the sports mode was really fun and I think will be addictive and so with that milage it would be a disaster. but I think it cannot be that bad. has to be something wrong there.

The default MID (indicated by a 1) in the Vento is for a single trip. It resets automatically if the time between 2 engine starts is > 2 hours. So what you are seeing will at max be that day's average.

The 2nd longer mid resets after 9 hrs of driving time (or maybe 19)

[alavandar]

Originally Posted by magikrider

Yup. I need a Sedan only. don't want to go for a hatch as this may also be used as a chauffeured car down the line. and DSG with a chauffeur is a risk I know but might take that chance here.....

I think letting a DSG be driven by paid driver or multiple family members is not a good idea. I was off and on speaking to one paid driver, who used to drive anything from Manza to VW/Audi/BMW/Merc time to time. Many a times paid drivers do not understand the machine and try to treat all of them equally. (And some people say the DSG "learns" the driving style and adapts and cite this as a reason to avoid multiple users. It is not correct. It does not have the capability to learn.) All the same, multiple user is best avoided.

Originally Posted by magikrider

also the MID showed the average of 6-7 kmpl which I am guessing must be either lifetime or since someone did the last reset. but it had a few test drives before mine and the milage was pretty scary! and the sports mode was really fun and I think will be addictive and so with that milage it would be a disaster. but I think it cannot be that bad. has to be something wrong there.

You need not worry. My 2.0L TDI DSG, on Jetta, a 387 distance night drive on S mode with 5 adult pax including the driver ie me, gave an average of 17.3 kpl (that to during multiple stops for tea/ toilet breaks I did not bother to switch off the engine to keep the AC on) (see photo attached).

And, I find that a thread on mytubodiesel.com is very informative on VW DSG, dos and donts etc. Please follow the links.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/vw...i-stronic-faq/

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/vw...stronic-faq-2/

[magikrider]

Originally Posted by alavandar

I think letting a DSG be driven by paid driver or multiple family members is not a good idea. I was off and on speaking to one paid driver, who used to drive anything from Manza to VW/Audi/BMW/Merc time to time. Many a times paid drivers do not understand the machine and try to treat all of them equally. (And some people say the DSG "learns" the driving style and adapts and cite this as a reason to avoid multiple users. It is not correct. It does not have the capability to learn.) All the same, multiple user is best avoided.

I know it is a risk but I am think I might take that risk given the convenience of the DSG. also the car will be used by me and my dad. but incase we hire a driver in future then it might be used by the driver.

Originally Posted by alavandar

You need not worry. My 2.0L TDI DSG, on Jetta, a 387 distance night drive on S mode with 5 adult pax including the driver ie me, gave an average of 17.3 kpl (that to during multiple stops for tea/ toilet breaks I did not bother to switch off the engine to keep the AC on) (see photo attached).

And, I find that a thread on mytubodiesel.com is very informative on VW DSG, dos and donts etc. Please follow the links.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/vw...i-stronic-faq/

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/vw...stronic-faq-2/

well that 6-7 kmpl average I mentioned earlier was on a Vento TSI DSG and not on TDI DSG. have not tried the TDI DSG yet. thats why I am considering a TDI as the TSI, when driven hard in S mode can give an average of even 6-7 kmpl and thanks for the link.

[D4D]

Originally Posted by magikrider

want a proper sedan. want something which I can use for long distance also once in a while. as who's knows, with a comfy DSG that city to highway ratio might just go from 70-30 to 60-40 or 55-45!

Then just look at the Vento and Rapid diesel DSG. No two ways about it.

Also consider the Vento TSI, you're running is not that much.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by magikrider

I know it is a risk but I am think I might take that risk given the convenience of the DSG. also the car will be used by me and my dad. but incase we hire a driver in future then it might be used by the driver.

If you are planning on letting the driver drive the DSG, be very careful about the choice since drivers in general would not be hesitant about using the DSG to full potential unlike owners who worry about reliability down the line every time they shift to S mode.

If FE is the only reason you are thinking of TDI DSG, why not consider City CVT? That is fuel efficient and supposedly more reliable too if you are okay with a fuel efficient petrol.