[sixthsense2k6]

Originally Posted by mijnoirhammer67

Well why don't you look at the Ecosport? Unless you are strictly looking at a sedan, the Ecosport could be fun. Alternatively, the S-cross 1.6 could stretch your budget but it'd be worth in my opinion. Or, wait for the Baleno RS. Though i think the baleno is a bit too light for the highway commute, I've time and time again felt its build quality is poor. Especially after that car accident in which 5 people died in their new baleno, I've advised anyone looking for the Baleno to look at it only if its a city car.

But my recommendation for sedans would be between the Rapid and Vento and Verna if it appeals to you. The new rapid is due, you can wait for that. That could bring a few new features. And if not, you can expect the current Rapid with extra discounts since its an outgoing model.



Recommendations:

1. S-Cross 1.6

2. Ecosport

3. New Rapid

4. Current gen Rapid or Vento



Happy hunting

Thanks mijnoirhammer67. I did test drive ecosport petrol AT. I was about to zero it to ecosport because of high seating, good ground clearance and 2.5 lakhs cheaper ( ongoing vento is getting at the same rate as ongoing Rapid for me). S Cross is expensive 1.6 costs 14 lakh without any promotions. And no automatic.

I am confused about VENTO DSG vs the commoner City. I hate looks of Ciaz. I need a good suspension as my weekends are spent at my wife's native place with hardly any roads. And my daily commute is half within city and half in highways. Daily I travel 50-60 kms. I need good fuel economy whether its petrol or diesel. And I don't intend to change this car in another 5 yrs.

I am tensed about german brand although i am well satisfied with the drive of DSG diesel. I haven't test driven CITY being petrol and lower FE on papers compared to VENTO DSG TDI. Googled a lot , hardly see any definite reviews of TDI DSG mileage. So I am tensed about the sales person's promise of a 20km/l.

Please help me. I am about to book it on wednesday once bank papers are OK. Thanks!

[ToyotaFan]

Originally Posted by sixthsense2k6

Planning to buy vento highline TDI DSG (Automatic). Didn't think about City Cvt because I am currently using Amaze. F E of city is around 12 and vento TDI around 20. Service intervals are different. I don't like the looks of CIAZ and I cant go beyond 14 Lakhs to buy a Creta. Anyone please advise, will it be a wise decision. I am planning to keep this car for around 5-6 years and my daily commute is around 50-60km (half is highway).

Why don't you look at the AMEO TDI DSG. You will be saving 3L rupees for essentially the same car as the vento except for boot and some rear space. It being a new model in the market further adds to its appeal. Lower weight + 110 bhp should make it better to drive than the vento.

[heydj]

In terms of suspension Vento is on weak side with potholes felt much more. Read suspension views on net.

As for FE user views are there in various threads. In Rapid TDI with heavy traffic I get 10-11, sometimes in bumper to bumper with avg speed 16 km/h around 8-9.

Tankful to tankful under above use avg is 11 km/l.

Only highway with avg trip speed 60-90 km/h FE of 19-22, even as much as 24 rarely.

In mix of city traffic and highways, tankful to tankful avg 14-17 km/l.

[sixthsense2k6]

I was pulled towards vento after test drive mainly because of the solid built, heaviness of steering during drive and the response from engine
Earlier i was against VW, but few of my relatives too answered my woes on maintenance and economy.
Major factor for giving a nod for Vento is the higher exchange rate given by them for my old Amaze.
But when I am on the verge of buying it, my mind feels to test drive the commoner sedan The City !
There are few things good in city, like the engine, after sales, touch screen with rear camera integration and VFM
But my dislikes in city are the sunroof, poor plastic quality unlike Vento, no projectors or DRL ( even vento doesnt )
Another major concern is chance for a recent facelift for City.
Whichever vehicle i opt, the top variant will be chosen so that i get the best in the ongoing model
But friends, are these cars ( vento and City) comparable
I need comparisons on suspension, DSG vs CVT etc

[heydj]

In below thread on very first page CVT & DSG explained along with others.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-c...no-ertiga.html

In below thread AT cars in your budget compared.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-c...ive-guide.html

I would suggest reading reviews and ownership threads of both City & Vento.

If resale is high in value chain for you then City might be better though in day to day driving pleasure DSG is good.

A right balance might be Ameo DSG as you save about 2 lakhs today which to certain extent offset resale loss later in life.

[mijnoirhammer67]

Originally Posted by sixthsense2k6

I need comparisons on suspension, DSG vs CVT etc

All the people here would give suggestions and advice on what you should buy. Consider it, but only buy the car you feel is right. You need to TD them extensively to check it all out. Take both the Vento and City out in the highway and take it over bumper to bumper traffic and potholes. This is your car with your money. Its okay to look at suggestions from Team-BHP and other sites. But if you have zeroed it down to two choices, now it should completely come down to your preference. One mans garbage is another mans gold. So pay heed to this. Moreover, ask around on ownership threads about how the people who own it and drive it daily feel. The wear and tear and A.S.S. is something you should check out from owners, rest the decision of purchase should lie solely on you.

[pathik]

Originally Posted by bosporus

Distances are so short, that the TDI will never get a chance to properly warm up, which means you're constantly reducing engine life and the life of all associated components. People in various international forums opine that it takes at least 10km to come to operating temperatures, and VW spokespersons have cautioned against buying a TDI if your trips, one way, are barely 6-7km. VW, in fact, calls that scenario high stress driving conditions, and recommend that FSI or TSI should be purchased for such conditions.

Sorry for bumping up an old post, but I would like to know t-bhp folks opinion on this. I am considering a Vento TDI DSG for my next purchase but my daily run to office is hardly 4 kms. My monthly running is pretty low (about 800 kms a month currently) and I know that a Petrol is perhaps more suited for my usage but following are my reasons for Diesel -

1. I want to keep the car for 5-7 years and my office location may change after a year and monthly running may go up to 1200 kms
2. Higher Torque
3. Lower running cost (duh!) & higher resale value
3. Piece of mind of not being worried about terrible FE when stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in Mumbai when on Petrol.

Now, as I said, I drive for short runs regularly 3 kms - 4 kms at-least twice every day and longer runs every alternate day, will doing this adversely affect the Diesel engine life? Would I be better off with TSI instead purely from a engine reliability perspective?

[bosporus]

Originally Posted by pathik

I am considering a Vento TDI DSG for my next purchase but my daily run to office is hardly 4 kms.
following are my reasons for Diesel -

1. I want to keep the car for 5-7 years and my office location may change after a year and monthly running may go up to 1200 kms
2. Higher Torque
3. Lower running cost (duh!) & higher resale value
4. Piece of mind of not being worried about terrible FE when stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in Mumbai when on Petrol.

Now, as I said, I drive for short runs regularly 3 kms - 4 kms at-least twice every day and longer runs every alternate day, will doing this adversely affect the Diesel engine life? Would I be better off with TSI instead purely from a engine reliability perspective?

The short version of the answer is, buy the TSI.

Before I elaborate, let mention in advance, that while my daily drive is a Vento 1.6 TDI and we also have a Vento TSI in the family, both of which are maintained by me, and so the answer below contains both the practical lived aspects, as well as the theoretical ones. So, here goes:
1. Engine damage: Diesel engines typically take 6-8km to get warmed up to operating temperature. Before that, the engine is suffering more wear and tear, consuming more oil, and giving lesser mileage. Also, because the engine doesn't get to warm adequately most of the time, you'll also get a fair bit of carbon buildup. Technically, we're talking about everything that compromises engine reliability.

Having said that, the kind of life and tolerances these engines are built for, practically, for you, it's unlikely there would be any effect you will see in your maintenance costs, except for increased engine oil usage - I'm guessing an additional 1-2 litres every year, in top-up costs. Before you get psyched, this is expected behaviour, and VW warns you about it as well, in the manual - your expected driving pattern is labelled by VW as high stress driving. I've personally witnessed this increase in engine oil consumption, in 2 out of my 5.5 years of usage, when work meant I was making a lot of very short trips.


2. Higher Torque: High Torque is just one way to enjoy a car's performance. Arguably, the more popular way has typically been the linear surge of power that petrol engines deliver, and that is especially true of the TSI. Both the TSI engine and the DSG gearbox are individually brilliant, but where they shine in the TSI is in the setup; how VW has paired them together. I've extensively driven a TDI + DSG in both the Jetta & the Ameo, and I promise you, the TDI + DSG is not even half as fun as the TSI + DSG pairing. Of course, you don't have to take my word for it; take both cars for a long enthusiastic drive, and you'll know what I mean. And especially the snarl of the TSI as you rev high, plus that continues wave of power is awesomely addictive.

My point is, both cars deliver fun in their own way, so the engine isn't really a + for the TDI.

In fact, I marginally prefer the TSI, purely from a driving POV, for two reasons: that linear, non-stop surge of power I mentioned earlier, and the fact that it's dead quiet, compared to the TDI, which still makes some noise. When I drive, I mostly like to listen to the engine, and don't put on music, so your mileage may vary here. If you have music on all the time, there's much less of a perceived difference between the two from a refinement POV.


3. Lower running cost (duh!) & higher resale value: I'd like to clarify that you're wrong on both counts here:
In 5.5 years of TDI ownership and nearly 4 years the TSI ownership, I'd say that the TSI is actually slightly more expensive to maintain. Service costs are otherwise very marginally lower for the TSI, but every second year, it's recommended that you change the spark plugs, which is, if I recall correctly, cost ~2.5k. So, pretty much the same.

As far as resale value goes, anecdotally, it seems TSI's lose more value compared to diesel - it's got to do entirely with out national aversion to petrol cars. Also, mind you, you're paying quite a bit of a premium when you're buying the TDI, instead of the TSI.

Of course, fuel costs are lower for the TDI, but considering you barely drive, you'll never recover that additional premium you're paying for diesel when you buy the car.



4. Peace of mind of not being worried about terrible FE when stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in Mumbai when on Petrol.: It's true that diesels deliver better fuel efficiency in bumper to bumper traffic than petrol, but again, given how much you drive, I promise you, it barely matters.

~~~~~~~

In short, as a dispassionate observer, I'd say, logic says, go TSI. Otherwise, both are brilliant cars, and you can't really go wrong with either. So, all the best, and do let me know if I can answer any more of your queries.

[Pedaltothefloor]

That's a brilliant answer Bosporus. I am now going for a TSI test drive today as I want no more diesel clatter in my life.

[Pedaltothefloor]

Please don't come out with your baseball bats after reading this. I have been driving a truck (Fiat Punto 90HP diesel) for 5 years.

I completed a TD of VW Vento TSi this morning. I am completely underwhelmed.

1. The electronic steering felt very disconnected compared to the Hydraulic steering on the Punto. There was no feedback and it felt like a video game. Maybe this will grow on me?
2. I found the suspension did not inspire confidence. On the highway at 100kmph, it was bouncing a lot probably as it is a lot lighter than the Fiats?
3. I felt there was no torque. As I floored it, it moved faster. But I never get any torque. Again, felt like a virtual reality video game.
4. The overal height of the car seems low. Does it scrape on bad roads?

Maybe I should try the TDI DSG and only change one thing instead of both in my new car (auto vs manual and petrol vs diesel). I found the Skoda Rapid top variant is 16L OTR Bangalore with diesel and DSG compared to Vento which is 17.5L
A few people also pointed out that the Rapid DSG has better suspension, projector headlamps and DRLs unlike the Vento.

Bottom line, stick to Vento for TSI and Rapid for TDI; if looking for a DSG version. How true is this?

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by pathik

Sorry for bumping up an old post, but I would like to know t-bhp folks opinion on this.
Now, as I said, I drive for short runs regularly 3 kms - 4 kms at-least twice every day and longer runs every alternate day, will doing this adversely affect the Diesel engine life? Would I be better off with TSI instead purely from a engine reliability perspective?

In my experience, I think the petrol TSI engine is the one for you considering the short runs primarily because the diesel TDI comes at a premium and for you to recover this, there is a certain average minimum distance that you should put on the odo. There are various threads on this but a thumb-rule puts the average daily driving to be atleast 40 km or so.

Money apart, the petrol TSI has lower NVH definitely as compared to the TDI.
On the torque, however, the TDI will win hands-down due to its inherent nature.
So there are both pros and cons of buying either. It just depends on what is your bigger priority or "drive" today or in the near future for your purchase decision.
I own a TDI DSG and have recently put my ownership experience of having driven it for 2 years. Maybe going through it will give you some more answers. Best luck, mate!

Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor

Bottom line, stick to Vento for TSI and Rapid for TDI; if looking for a DSG version. How true is this?

Hello buddy, both the Vento and the Rapid are mechanical twins. The DSG behaves the same on both machines for a diesel. So, I guess nothing much of a difference there unless the dealerships are giving you different experiences or resale if you are planning for an exchange on your Punto.
For torque, the Vento DSG diesel will give you 75Nm more than the Vento TSI petrol engine so there's a significant difference.
The ground clearance of the Vento is around 20 mm less as compared to the Punto so you are naturally anxious about the car scraping. If fully loaded and if you are not careful on that big speed breaker, the Vento's bottom will surely scrape.
As I have mentioned above, I have driven a Vento TDI DSG for about 2 yrs now and I am pretty satisfied with it, but with certain priorities for why I chose that engine or the car.

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor

3. I felt there was no torque. As I floored it, it moved faster. But I never get any torque. Again, felt like a virtual reality video game.

What was the speed? Pray, if you floored it and it moved faster, how could there be no torque? It is torque that causes acceleration, letting one go faster!

[Pedaltothefloor]

Does anybody know if VW is planning to launch a new version of Vento in India? I can hold off my purchase and don't want to be stuck with a older generation model.

[sups]

Originally Posted by Pedaltothefloor

I completed a TD of VW Vento TSi this morning. I am completely underwhelmed.

1. The electronic steering felt very disconnected compared to the Hydraulic steering on the Punto. There was no feedback and it felt like a video game. Maybe this will grow on me?
2. I found the suspension did not inspire confidence. On the highway at 100kmph, it was bouncing a lot probably as it is a lot lighter than the Fiats?
3. I felt there was no torque. As I floored it, it moved faster. But I never get any torque. Again, felt like a virtual reality video game.
4. The overal height of the car seems low. Does it scrape on bad roads?

A few people also pointed out that the Rapid DSG has better suspension, projector headlamps and DRLs unlike the Vento.

It is not surprising that you found high speed ride of Punto more composed than the Vento. Fiat's steering and suspension are fabulous and their high speed ride is hard to beat. The present generation Vento has relatively soft suspension which works better for city roads at low speed. As you would see from official review, Rapid TDI AT has slightly stiffer suspension than Vento and better NVH. I have driven Vento TDI AT and Rapid TDI AT a few times, and I liked Rapid TDI AT every time. The present version of top end LE of Rapid is a looker as well.

For high speed rides, S-Cross is decidedly superior with its stiffer suspension. Unfortunately, after 15-16L bracket, its all the way upto Octavia (leaving Duster AWD) which can give you the solid suspension feel. There is not much option in between in my opinion. Even the mightly Elantra and Altis has softer suspension and may not feel as planted at high speed if the road is not perfect. Ofcourse we have now the new kid in Jeep Compass which fits between Octavias and Rapids and is worth considering.

[Pedaltothefloor]

Originally Posted by sups

Ofcourse we have now the new kid in Jeep Compass which fits between Octavias and Rapids and is worth considering.

Thanks, that's a very helpful response as I had no clue that the Vento has a soft suspension. The trouble with Rapid is that they don't have a TSI. They even discontinued the 1.4 TSI Octavia recently. The Jetta has also been discontinued. Now it's all the way to 25L OTR for a 1.8 TSI Octavia.

Jeep is out of the question. 5 years of living with FCA India and I don't want to do that anymore. Punto is very planted but I haven't found a comfortable seating position. The gear ratios are messed up. Diesel is loud. Funny that Maruti has managed to tune the same engine better.

What we need is a VW Vento 1.4 TSI to launch in India ��