[sups]

Originally Posted by aptiwa

So here is another angle to the Jetta vs Octavia question.

Are you getting a new Highline DSG model? I was told by the showroom in Pune that they can only source comfortline manual models and that too only in toffee brown colour.

Incidentally yesterday I spotted a brand new toffee brown colour Jetta just outside our housing society. Waited for the owner to come and he confirmed that its a 2016 Highline DSG model. He was a VW employee and got it from the company free of cost. Lucky guys!

[sameerg]

Advance apologies for a long and confused post

I have been quite confused about which car to buy for over a year now. Have finalized, booked and cancelled twice in past year. I am trying to describe here in detail my requirement and confusion and am hoping to put an end to this car search saga.

Requirements:

I drive a 6.5 yrs. old petrol SX4 right now and looking to upgrade. Total traveling is about 800-1000 Kms a month. 500 odd in city most of which is in bumper to bumper traffic on Bangalore ORR (sarjapur road-marathalli stretch). I do a 600-800 kms odd highway trip every other month.

I am a stickler for rules and safe driving so I don’t really do lane changes or "cut" in slow moving traffic but at the same time i hate it when others try to get into the gaps left between two vehicles and scrap/brush my car, so filling gaps quickly is an important requirement.

Highway trips are with wife and kid so speed rarely crosses 110 with a very hard limit on 120. I typically avoid risky overtaking also. However again at times one needs quick thrust to get ahead of a pack of slow-moving trucks etc. and hence that is important too.

As you may have guessed from my driving style, safety quite importance to me hence I would want as many things in that dept. as much as possible. Also it has to be automatic.


Wife wants equipment/electronics like touch screen/reverse camera/keyless entry/start etc. I have however been successful in getting keyless part in good to have list.

Diesel or petrol both are ok. Since we don’t drive a lot, slightly higher running costs of petrol won’t matter. Any higher upfront costs of diesel can probably be recovered in resale value.

We started with a budget of 20 lakhs and went through a lot of reviews and ownership threads on T-BHP. Everyone said the German siblings are driver's cars and are the way to go. And that if it has to be automatic it has to be DSG etc. So I stretched and booked Jetta diesel. But before I was able to take delivery, some other large expenses came my way and had to cancel the booking.

We went hunting again in October last year and since were tight on budget booked a Vento DSG. But sth in my heart didn't feel right and within 24 hrs, I cancelled the booking. Wife anyways was upset at me booking a car without a reverse camera, so she also happily agreed on cancellation. The car search had gone out of our minds and suddenly news of Vento HL plus with reverse camera came. It ticked the correct boxes for the wife but I am not able to convince myself. Plus the new pricelist has ticked me off further.

Now that Jetta is discontinued and I for some reason don't really like Vento/rapid. I love Octavia but it is too much stretch on my budget. Plus the 'risks' and possible downtime waiting for parts may make the stretch even more painful.

Among others, I absolutely hate (personal opinion, looks are subjective) the thick chrome strip Honda cars have so that is out.

All our cars have been from Maruti stable and wife doesn’t even want to look at them.

SUVs compact or otherwise are not sth we are interested in. So that brings me to the only remaining contenders:

Hyundai Verna: This car was wife's first choice since she liked the looks and equipment list. Test drive experience was not really great. Could be because we tested it just after Jetta DSG. Wife and kids spend most of their time in back seat and she didn’t like the rear seat one bit. So this is out.

Hyundai Elantra: We tested this last week. Now am no expert but to me the car seemed ok. I for one like the 'German style' interiors and lesser fluidic exterior.

So this brings me to my questions:

1) From people who understand cars and especially elantra, is the low end torque enough for comfortable drive in bumper to bumper traffic. Since majority of my driving in terms of time, if not distance will be in city traffic

2) Diesel or petrol? My office is 7-8 kms from my home and lot of people say that short runs are harmful for diesel. Others say NA petrol doesn't have low-end torque so turbo diesel will be better in city traffic.

3) I keep reading that Elantra is not a great handler, one should not push it too hard into the corners etc. Now I am not sure if this will be a problem with my driving style. I have tried describing my driving style in detail so people who understand cars please advise on this.

4) A lot of criticism of CVT/rubber band effect when people compare it with DSG. Now DSG probably a lot better but again I am not sure if it should be a deal breaker especially given my needs. Need inputs on this too.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by sameerg

I am a stickler for rules and safe driving so I don’t really do lane changes or "cut" in slow moving traffic but at the same time i hate it when others try to get into the gaps left between two vehicles and scrap/brush my car, so filling gaps quickly is an important requirement.

First of all, let me be one to say that your driving style should very much be the standard for the country in general, no sudden lane changes, no hogging the median lines and just, a better way for all. I'm much more of a stickler than even this and I can say that proudly.

I believe I can answer your questions, given my driving experiences of Skoda, BMW's and the very Hyundai Elantra Automatic that you have asked about. My opinion may be anything but popular opinion but it does come from my experiences and I've driven (not own) the Skoda and BMW each over 100+km, that would give me a pretty good idea for breaking myths and perhaps, giving new opinions for the both.

The word "German" automobile is overused, these days. Yes in essence any car that has a German owner or is headquartered in Germany should be a German car. Other than that they do vary significantly. For example in terms of stability, quality, brand halo, drivability, road feel, steering etc, the BMW is heads and shoulders above say an Octavia or Jetta, of course the Jetta would be better to drive than the Octavia due to the multi-link suspension but otherwise its a notch below BMW given that its not a rear-wheel drive and steering isn't nearly as good. If Jetta (manual shift) was still on sale this answer would've been rather easy given the pricing and value. Octavia, I'm not quite so sure, infact I'd say given the risks of the DSG transmission and potential problems that might arise out of that, you might need to think really long and hard, our forum chief GTO has posted several links of DSG's failing and there are quite a few of those that have happened

Now onto the Elantra, I've driven that as well but not for very long so I'll best try to describe my experience that lasted about 15 minutes. The steering is an EPS which does mean it will have an inorganic feel, it'll feel artificial in terms of turning and weight but that does apply to most other EPS's I've driven too, in fact I found the Octavia numb at low speeds. The Hyundai is neutral, please all yet excel in none kind of car, it is adequately powered for one thing and the auto-transmission would be reliable as well. I cannot talk about comfort given the limited time spent in it, but if it is like every other Hyundai at the price range then it should be good. The suspension I found more than capable, quiet and stable at normal city speeds, I'm pretty sure it'll more than qualify to fulfill the above stated needs.

As for the question on CVT vs DSG, yes DSG is way, way more superior to CVT, and CVT's rubber-band effect is notorious for showing up all through the rev-cycle, it simply will not do exactly what you want it to do at that very second, 2 ,3 seconds later? Sure but 2-3 secs matter big. However none of the cars in your shortlist come with a CVT anyway,the Elantra comes with a 6 speed slushbox (torque-converter) and since I drove it in peak traffic I can say with confidence that it's good enough bumper to bumper and great with higher torque as well. Diesel vs. Petrol? You will get a biased answer from me, petrol because its less-noisy, less polluting, and better at low-torque, I always favor petrols and I'm admitting it openly.

What I'm writing is only my view-point, in the end nothing beats personal experience and as a result, personal opinion. I firmly believe that when one sits and experiences a car for a few minutes, he/she will know when the vehicle is JUST right for their need, perhaps a last round of consideration/test-drives should be in order, my pick for such needs - Elantra.

[Montee35]

@Sameerg, I was in a similar dilemma like you till a couple of months ago. My choice was between Elantra and Octavia. After a lot of research and head-scratching I finally went ahead and booked the new Elantra (Sx petrol automatic, the top end variant.) Got the delivery on the first day of the new year, and have already driven the car for around 1300 km. Let me share my experiences with all its pros and cons. (Most of them being pros but a few cons as well)

Well, looks wise the car scores a 10 over 10, imo. The Marina blue colour that we chose looks very classy. The first impression from everyone who sees the car is like, 'WOW, it's a beauty!'

Interiors wise too, the fit n finish are very nice. I prefer the sobre yet elegant interiors of the new Elantra rather than more flamboyant design of the previous generation Elantra. The space is quite generous, with good leg room as well as shoulder room, both at the front and at the rear. Having said so, I feel the quality of plastic could have been better- the plastic below the glove box and on the doors tends to get scratches easily (and which are noticeable easily over the underlying black color). It's difficult for me to pinpoint exactly why, but the interiors don't give me the feel of a premiumness that a 20 L car deserves.

The feature list is quite elaborate. All the features listed by you are present, and a few more too. Keyless entry, top notch AVN system with apple carplay (which I use very often and I find it quite handy), reverse parking camera and sensors, decent speakers, electrically adjustable driver's seat with adjustable lumbar support, cooling glove box, auto dimming IRVM, auto head lamps, practical multi-information display, electric sunroof, ventillated seats (this is not a mere fancy addition - once you start using, you realise its value and usefulness), smart boot lid opening (which works flawlessly contrary to what some reviews mention), all truly add to the comfort and convenience. The navigation works very accurately, although some addresses are not listed. Some features which are missing include auto rain sensing wipers, screen mirroring on the AVN display, panoramic sunroof, electrically adjustable passenger seat, memory for seat adjustment, front parking sensors, etc to name a few, most of which are present in Octavia.

Now coming to the driving experience, this is where I was a bit disappointed initially, coz the driving pleasure is nowhere even close to Octavia or Jetta. In fact manual Elantra seemed more nice to drive compared to the automatic. If you are heavy footed, you'll realize that as you hit the accelerator as you begin to drive, the shift from first gear to the second and then to third is pretty slow. You see revs go up in the tachometer but the car just doesn't accelerate as much. This is especially true in Eco n standard modes. In sports mode, this doesn't happen and the things are much more livelier. Over a period of time I have realized that instead of keeping the accelerator pressed continually, if I release the accelerator and then repress it again, the pickup is much better. It just requires getting used to. Once you get used to and overcome the above problem, the car is a good fun to drive. In fact my wife doesn't tire mentioning how easy this one is to drive and that she feels she's driving a toy car or is on a go-karting round!! On the highway even at speeds exceeding 130 kmps, the car cruises effortlessly. The ride quality and suspensions are very good.

Another issue I have always found with Hyundai cars is the mileage. (This is my third Hyundai, following i10 and Xcent). This car is no different, esp during city drives. (My car delivers around 9kmpl in city; but surprisingly I got a mileage of around 15.5 on highway- more than the company stated ARAI figures! At least that is what the car's MID showed.)

Another issue I noticed was noise at high speeds. The NVH levels are pretty good, the car is practically noiseless at start and at low speeds. But the moment the speed picks up, there is some noise. Could tyres be the culprit? Maybe team BHP could answer that.

Now comparing this with the order option, Octavia, let me confess that Octavia has been my first love. It is a fantastic car loaded with features more than Elantra and with a very capable DSG petrol automatic. However this comes at a premium of almost 3.5 L which despite being too high, I was prepared to pay but for me the deal breaker was extremely poor aftersales service in my city. This is something I experienced myself personally as well as got similar feedback from other Skoda users. Plus, there has been a concern about DSG in long term. Also, there is a problem with availability of parts, with long waiting in many cases. For me peace of mind was more important than the driving pleasure and added features. And in terms of all above, Hyundai is miles ahead of Skoda. I have received extremely good pre as well as aftersales service for all my Hyundai cars.

Hope the above helps you in making a right decision. Let me clarify that the cons mentioned above are not deal- breakers and Elantra as an overall package is excellent. Considering all above, and considering your needs, I would strongly recommend Elantra for you.

[SpoiledBratt]

@Sameerg - what I wanted to understand from you is when you are not going after a good drivers cars (Octavia or Jetta) because of not so good ASS then - why Altis is not in your consideration? I feel Altis and Elantra should be a very close to each other in driving terms and there will be few plus'es and minus'es with each of them. Something which Altis assures you off Elantra may not and vice versa. Altis is one heck of a car that can grow old with you with bullet proof reliability.
P.S. When I talk about Altis it is only Petrol.

[varunswnt]

Please check my below post for Jetta at dealer for sale. I am not promoting, I was checking out used cars for a friend and saw this beauty.

Originally Posted by varunswnt

Pune bhpians,
...
I saw the original RC card with above details and cross verified on VAHAAN

[sameerg]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

What I'm writing is only my view-point, in the end nothing beats personal experience and as a result, personal opinion. I firmly believe that when one sits and experiences a car for a few minutes, he/she will know when the vehicle is JUST right for their need, perhaps a last round of consideration/test-drives should be in order, my pick for such needs - Elantra.

Thanks a lot for answering in so much detail. As suggested by you, will test drive once again.

Originally Posted by Montee35

Also, there is a problem with availability of parts, with long waiting in many cases. For me peace of mind was more important than the driving pleasure and added features. And in terms of all above, Hyundai is miles ahead of Skoda. I have received extremely good pre as well as aftersales service for all my Hyundai cars.

Thanks Montee. First-hand feedback always helps. Long wait for parts, is my biggest worry too. One may be OK with higher maintenance costs or frequent preventive check-ups but long downtimes are a definite no.

Originally Posted by SpoiledBratt

@Sameerg - what I wanted to understand from you is when you are not going after a good drivers cars (Octavia or Jetta) because of not so good ASS then - why Altis is not in your consideration?

Its a great car but I personally don't like it. I honestly don't know why but I just don't like it. It's my personal view, no offense to anyone owning the car.

I am very particular and probably strange in this aspect. Every morning when I approach my car its look should make my heart skip a beat. This is the reason, I rejected honda city without even a test drive.

This is probably a major reason, I am still not very convinced about Elantra. I didn't like the earlier design. I am neutral to the current one but I keep thinking that, am I really ok with the current design or is it my desperation for new car fooling me. Plus every time mind starts to think practically, I see a Jetta or Octavia on the road and mind just forgets everything.

PS: Just saw that you are from Faridabad. It is my hometown too.

[samoka91]

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

[khoj]

Why don't you step in to a VW dealership(again) and buy yourself one of the discontinued Jettas at a price that now a days has an official 10% off the ex-showroom value and a fat exchange bonus. In addition to that the dealer may give additional discounts depending on how soon he wants the stocks moved. I know for a fact that some dealers still have a couple of examples from 2015.

I too was in the same dilemma last September and eliminated the Corolla immediately after the first test drive and the Elantra after exhaustive test drives. Rejected the Octavia 1.8TSI due to the 7 sped DSG and Jetta was left standing. Hunted around and located one in Reflex Silver with the reliable and proven 6 speed DSG and bought it at first sight, again with a hefty discount riding on the wave of fear that people have for discontinued models. My last three cars have been bought at hefty discounts on account of discontinuation (TJet+ & Jetta) or calendar year change (Mitsubishi Cedia).

If you are willing to go in that direction I could introduce you to the GM of the dealership in NCR from whom I picked my Jetta. Now before you tell me that you are in Bangalore, let me tell you that I have always bought cars from dealers where I find ready delivery irrespective of the city the dealer is in and of course the best possible 'deal'. Bought my Swift Zxi from Poona; the TJet+ from Kalyan and the Jetta from Noida, U.P. with the Swift registered in Raigad (MH), the other two in Faridabad (HR) and all being primarily used in Dilli.

What I am trying to say is do not hold back and go ahead and hunt down the wind (Jetta) of your dreams. This might literally be the last chance to own this model (at least in India)

Originally Posted by sameerg

Plus every time mind starts to think practically, I see a Jetta or Octavia on the road and mind just forgets everything.

PS: Just saw that you are from Faridabad. It is my hometown too.

[sameerg]

Originally Posted by khoj

Why don't you step in to a VW dealership(again) and buy yourself one of the discontinued Jettas at a price that now a days has an official 10% off the ex-showroom value and a fat exchange bonus. In addition to that the dealer may give additional discounts depending on how soon he wants the stocks moved. I know for a fact that some dealers still have a couple of examples from 2015.



If you are willing to go in that direction I could introduce you to the GM of the dealership in NCR from whom I picked my Jetta. Now before you tell me that you are in Bangalore, let me tell you that I have always bought cars from dealers where I find ready delivery irrespective of the city the dealer is in and of course the best possible 'deal'. Bought my Swift Zxi from Poona; the TJet+ from Kalyan and the Jetta from Noida, U.P. with the Swift registered in Raigad (MH), the other two in Faridabad (HR) and all being primarily used in Dilli.

What I am trying to say is do not hold back and go ahead and hunt down the wind (Jetta) of your dreams. This might literally be the last chance to own this model (at least in India)

I checked in Blr and could only find manual petrols and TD DSGs, hence gave up on jetta. Please connect me with your contact. Thanks a ton man. I had almost given up on getting a new car till i read ur post. Lets see how it goes.

[khoj]

Check your pm, all the best.

Originally Posted by sameerg

I checked in Blr and could only find manual petrols and TD DSGs, hence gave up on jetta. Please connect me with your contact. Thanks a ton man. I had almost given up on getting a new car till i read ur post. Lets see how it goes.

[madnish30]

Hi folks,

Facing an interesting dilemma. Just sold our workhorse C250 CDI, looking to move to something easy on the pocket in terms of maintainance (as compared to the C), naturally looking at the D segment.

Have eliminated Elantra as the car just did not aesthetically or mechanically click with me. Down to Octavia and Altis as options - here is a summary of the scenario: Heart says Octavia, mind (and everyone else) says Altis.

The car is going to have a daily usage of 20-30KMs in city traffic and 70% chauffeur driven (maybe much lesser is I go with the Octavia ).

Now the deal is such that the 2017 Octavia TSI AT Style Plus (top end) is working out to be 24 lacs OTR (down from 25.25 lacs) and the 2017 Octavia TDI AT Style Plus is working out to be 23.8 lacs (down from 27 lacs). I am happy going with both, but want to know which one will be a sensible bet with respect to resale - I found them both to be good drives (I already own an A3 TSI so do have fun with the 1.8 TSI engine). Both offers stand good only till 31st March.

The Altis on the other hand is a fast moving car and has no deals what so ever - the top end Petrol AT costs 23.8 lacs OTR (not considering diesel as it's very underpowered) - but the car is SO boring and bland, OK to drive - it's just mundane, but ticks all the boxes. Plus, me being used to European cars... the Japanese sedan just feels odd with no usual thud in the door and flimsy hinges and questionable material choices.

The Skoda ASS stories scare me, the arrogance and lax attitude of Toyota dealers (no different from the other top 4 brands in India) makes me feel part of a crowd and not give me the satisfaction I deserve in this price bracket.

Off topic: but, someone suggested and I actually am considering it to get the Innvoa which works roughly around 20 lacs OTR which has all the bells and whistles and is perfect for being chauffeur driven. It sounds silly, but it's me thinking out loud.

Sometimes, I also feel that the D segment is just not worth it anymore and I should look at the C Segment and get a VFM Rapid or all rounder City.

Any thoughts?

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by madnish30

Facing an interesting dilemma. Just sold our workhorse C250 CDI, looking to move to something easy on the pocket in terms of maintainance (as compared to the C), naturally looking at the D segment.

You should seriously consider the Innova Crysta. The V & Z variants are fully loaded. Pls avoid the Octy TSi AT, the dq200 is far from being reliable. I am sure your c250 would have fared better than the octy tsi in the reliability dept. Just met a family friend who is planing to replace his last gen Jetta diesel with the Crysta, He is fed up of the VW ASC in Nashik. The new Altis is a safe choice but looking at your requirements- Crysta AT makes a strong case.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by madnish30

Facing an interesting dilemma. Just sold our workhorse C250 CDI, looking to move to something easy on the pocket in terms of maintainance (as compared to the C), naturally looking at the D segment.

Have eliminated Elantra as the car just did not aesthetically or mechanically click with me. Down to Octavia and Altis as options - here is a summary of the scenario: Heart says Octavia, mind (and everyone else) says Altis.

If resale value is a strong parameter the Skoda won’t be ideal. IMO, get the Corolla; all of these will be a downgrade from the Mercedes, but probably the best option in D-segment considering the parameters you have listed. For reasonable driving thrills, you have the A3 1.8 TSI anyway!

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by madnish30

Now the deal is such that the 2017 Octavia TSI AT Style Plus (top end) is working out to be 24 lacs OTR (down from 25.25 lacs) and the 2017 Octavia TDI AT Style Plus is working out to be 23.8 lacs (down from 27 lacs). I am happy going with both, but want to know which one will be a sensible bet with respect to resale - I found them both to be good drives (I already own an A3 TSI so do have fun with the 1.8 TSI engine). Both offers stand good only till 31st March.

Just a comment on the tsi vs tdi. Among the two, since you are ok with both, would suggest the TDI. Just for the reason that the TDI does not use the infamous DQ200 7 speed dsg which has been more prone to failures. The TSI uses this DSG.

Is the TDI cheaper than the TSI?