[Captain Haddock]

Originally Posted by srvm

Sir, I own a Zest Revotron for the past 2 years (ODO is about 19000kms). So far I'm happy with the ownership. No niggles or problems so far. Ride quality is good and interior is spacious. These were my requirements apart from safety features such as ABS and Airbags.
I don't think the 4-cylinder Revotron engine used in Zest has quality issues or unreliable. To alleviate concerns of potential customers, I remember Tata conducting a Endurance run with Zest, Bolt and Tiago (see here)

On why the same engine was not used on the Nexon, here is my guess. The engine block in Zest is made of cast-iron and is heavier. The 3-pot engines in Tiago, Tigor and Nexon are All-aluminium and hence lighter. Although, the one in Petrol Nexon seems to be a turbo-charged version of the Tiago petrol engine.

Regarding, usage of fuel with 10 percent ethanol (E10), please read BHPian arindam_xeta's thread on his problems with Zest Revotron misfiring possibly due to E10 fuel. Finally, TML seems to have recommended him to use normal fuel instead of E10.

P.S: As of today, my Zest is getting its rear bumper replaced due to a minor accident on Republic day in Bangalore. For details see here. Thought I would share this info since you place lot of importance on passenger safety while deciding your next car.

Thanks for the information, ZEST seems to be a viable choice for me. I am able to bypass the dealer in Trivandrum. Concorde Kochi has promised to deliver the Car,but regarding the Ethanol blended fuel I am worried. Government is saying 10% etc in near future. If the Revetron is not handling 10% Ethanol it could become useless in near future

Are all other petrol engines meeting E10 norms. I think all engines are BS4 now. Should'nt they handle E10 ? If not ,it would be a disaster.

This is a worstcase scenario, I buy a ZEST paying around 7.6 lakhs onroad and suddenly the goverment comes up with an Ethanol blended fuel and the car cannot run on it. It becomes absolutely useless.

From my limited knowledge Maharashtra has implemented this scheme, then the ZEST owners in that state would be in real trouble. Any info on this ?

On a personal note I feel that all these choices are making it a nightmare to buy a car. Once the dealership issue was sorted out I was feeling relaxed and was mentally prepared to buy a ZEST, I browsed through a previous post on E10 petrol and the ZEST engine and I am back to square one.

Should I write off the ZEST because of the issue. Do other manufacturers face the same issue ?

Is my next best choice the ETIOS compatible with this fuel ? I have written to TATA and TOYOTA but received no replies as of yet.

[yatin]

The 10% ethanol question is answered in the Platinum Etios owner's manual - it is supported, methanol is not. Similar information should be there in the Zest manual as well, if one digs into it.

On another note, I guess you are reconciled to the likely depressing depreciation rate of these 2 cars? I have a 2-month old Etios, so.I know reconciliation is possible

[Captain Haddock]

I searched through the manual of ZEST. It just says BS 4. BALENO, VERNA etc have 10 percentage tolerance to Ethanol and 5 to Methonol. Strange that government is talking about 20 percentage blend of Methanol now. None of the cars seems to meet that target. If such a legislation comes I think it would be game over for most petrol engines. TATA is not providing any confirmation on this.

Is there a chance that blended fuel would fully replace conventional petrol.

Guys I am confused and petrified please provide some insight into this issue, SOS.

[greenhorn]

Captain, Lesser mortals would have been several weeks into that 4 months of the etios by now. I understand you have a lot of goodwill left over for tata from your estate ownership days, but buying a petrol zest is a risk (in terms of what can potentially go wrong - not just the fuel, it's the entire car, and the average TASC does not inspire much confidence in mitigating those risks), and in my opinion, the potential impact of the risk, outweighs the inconvenience of a few months. I am sure you can nurse your wagon R a little longer (heck, fix it up). You'll save a lot more on service alone on the etios!

[Captain Haddock]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Captain, Lesser mortals would have been several weeks into that 4 months of the etios by now. I understand you have a lot of goodwill left over for tata from your estate ownership days, but buying a petrol zest is a risk (in terms of what can potentially go wrong - not just the fuel, it's the entire car, and the average TASC does not inspire much confidence in mitigating those risks), and in my opinion, the potential impact of the risk, outweighs the inconvenience of a few months. I am sure you can nurse your wagon R a little longer (heck, fix it up). You'll save a lot more on service alone on the etios!

I understand the risk of getting a TATA petrol. But now I am worried even about the Etios. A fellow member says that Etios can handle E10 or Ethanol blended petrol but not Methanol.

ZEST became a choice only because a reputed dealer offered end to end support.

Our transportation minister is talking about 20% blending of Methanol.

I am flirting with the idea of ZEST at the expense of time because if ZEST seems unviable at any point of time, I can still get the Etios in white colour in short duration. I would swallow my pride because of the situation.

I am so concerned about the fuel because I use my cars for a long time. 10-15 years is the norm in my family.

Yes, perhaps I had given TATA a long rope because of my previous experiences.

The Wagon R is beyond redemption, too many kilometres, engine almost in its twilight and body generates too many squeaks.Air conditioning needs overhaul, tyres need replacement. It would be a pandora's box to fix. No matter how hard I try I think its incapable of running 500-600 Km a day.

[greenhorn]

In my opinion, the bark of the current government is a lot worse than its bite. The sort of regulatory uncertainty is hanging around diesel engines too, with the end result being that pretty much anything you can buy might be rendered useless or semi functional overnight due to some not so well thought out revolutionary reform or regulation. My hope is that either siam or public backlash will do something about it in the long run, though there may be some short term pain, like demonization. There does not seem to be a future proof car available in the market that suits your requirements, or for that matter, anyone's.

If that's the case, stop worrying about making the right choice, they're all wrong anyway.

[Captain Haddock]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

In my opinion, the bark of the current government is a lot worse than its bite. The sort of regulatory uncertainty is hanging around diesel engines too, with the end result being that pretty much anything you can buy might be rendered useless or semi functional overnight due to some not so well thought out revolutionary reform or regulation. My hope is that either siam or public backlash will do something about it in the long run, though there may be some short term pain, like demonization. There does not seem to be a future proof car available in the market that suits your requirements, or for that matter, anyone's.

If that's the case, stop worrying about making the right choice, they're all wrong anyway.

There is a lot of uncertainities regarding Fuel being blended with Alcohols. BS6 states that its 10 % Ethanol. I have no idea about Transport minister's 20 % Methanol statement.

To get to the crux of the issue I contacted a Malayalee garage owner in New Jersey whom I know well. He has vast experience in servicing old school Mercedes, Fords etc.
He says that the Revetron 1.2 in ZEST or the 1.5 L petrol in the ETIOS would easily handle the E10 mixture as even very old American cars adapted to this fuel. These were cars which were made in the Leaded petrol era.

Any issue made by E10 Petrol on any engine would be because of the debris being set free by the Alcohol, a cleaning of fuel line and tank would fix the issue.

In the long run gaskets and rubber used may have a shorter life but nothing catastrophic. The chance of E10 petrol killing any engine especially BS 4 spec ones is really remote, as per him.
He also says that both these engines are pretty low tech compared to the ones in U.S and should have larger tolerances to the inconsistent fuel supply in India.

The converse can be quite catastrophic, BS 6 sophisticated car meets BS3 or BS 4 Fuel. Very problem making especially for diesel engines.

I think it would be worthwhile to understand how TOYOTA and TATA handled my queries in this regard.

TOYOTA called through Madhuban TOYOTA, Mumbai. The selection of the dealer sounded strange because Nippon is Kerala's dealer but the selection was spot on. BS6 would first hit the metros so dealer in Mumbai was the perfect choice. The gentleman on the phone was very informative and assured me that it would be more dangerous if BS6 cars had BS4 or 3 fuel rather than the other way around. He says that being a non metro state Kerala would switch to BS6 only after its tried and tested in metros.


I really appreciate the dealer for talking to me for half an hour though I am not buying anything from him as I am in Kerala. Hats off to TOYOTA's CRM.

TATA's response was "forwarded to Territory sales manager". No response from him. This person should read his Philip Kotler's chapter on CRM again else read it afresh.

This person had the courage to defend Trivandrum motors before and made false promises to bring the test drive car to Trivandrum. I made no further communication to him and talked directly to Concorde. I need a test drive from a dealer from whom I buy as test drive vehicle's condition is a great way of evaluating the dealer.

If there is anything going in favour of TATA, it is Concorde Motors. Very courteous and had positive experiences with them. The only TATA dealer who can even be compared to Nippon TOYOTA. Last stand for TATA but with volumes they handle, I doubt if their service quality has dropped.

Regarding the ZEST vs ETIOS choice, there is a difference of 1.5 lakhs favouring the ZEST. ZEST XT from Concorde vs ETIOS V with park assistance and touch screen music player. These are my choices.

It all comes down to one fact, can my old Wagon R be made highway worthy without too much expenditure. My mechanic wants to check the car and is preparing an estimate. If it crosses something like 50 K, its ZEST, come what may.
I am prepared to go with TATA ZEST as the margin would be over 2 lakhs, which I cannot afford, in that case.

If we can manage with front tyres change, clutch rectification improving the pickup and AC cooling once the coolant gas is topped up, its the ETIOS without a doubt.

I got extensive trips to Chennai and Coimbatore coming in March.

I have dropped the demand for a Red Etios and is ok with White.
My estimate would be available in two days, the decision would be a pure financial one.

I really feel that after all the comparisons and research TOYOTA ETIOS is a better product because of the corporate integritiy and service trust they command.
I recommend the ETIOS to anyone who wants a safe petrol car in sub 10 lakhs category.

If I buy the ZEST it would be because of financial constraints alone. Hopefully it does not happen.
TATA's engineers have done a good job but sales team and certain dealers have made it almost impossible to buy a TATA these days.

More popular models like JAZZ, BALENO etc were avoided because of lack of information on crash test results for the India specific models. Did not like Aspire and Ecosport is over my budget.

Expect my review thread on the car I buy. I thank Team Bhp for all the support. Team Bhp really empowers the consumer. Dealers and CRM take note of this forum.

[sandeepmohan]

Toyota Etios without a doubt. All you need to do is put up with its dated looks.

All my Etios experiences have been via Uber. I have also spanked a Etios petrol once and it was fun. Reminded me of my old Ford Ikon. Perky engine though not every economical or refined. You will be lucky to get anything more than 10kmpl in the city cycle.

The Etios trumps the TATA in a way that there is no point even considering the latter. That is the brand, the reliability which is almost a given and the service you are going to get which is top rate.

What has also left me stumped is the interior. It all appears very cheap but they don't rattle all that much even after the car has crossed 70k km.

The Etios also offers acres of space, is very comfortable and has a massive boot.

TATA have done a fantastic job with all their new generation cars. I think the interiors are far superior to some of the immediate competition too. However; they are all new cars with brand new mechanical bits. It has been tested too so nothing should happen. Personally; I don't have too much faith in them and with a brand new product. I'd give it a few years before putting my money on a new TATA car.

To be honest, for Etios money, you have quite a number of options such as the Honda Amaze, Suzuki Dzire and Ford Aspire. All are available with an automatic transmission too.

[Captain Haddock]

An update after a long pause, I have ditched both options and all reasonable options as well.

I have opted for a Punto evo powertech and booked the same in September and would take delivery when I am back in November to Trivandrum

Why the Fiat? I felt that I needed to gift my self a car which I really enjoy driving. The steering, heavy weight &handling really delighted me. Heard that these could be the last lot hence booked the same and waiting for the delivery in November once I am back.

It came as a surprise to everyone why I chose a FIAT but my answer would be "I enjoy driving it".

It has all the odds against it poor service, going out of production shortly, not at all a new gen vehicle. But the car has a serene beauty to it and as Keats has rightly said "a thing of beauty is a joy for ever " .

The dealer was Deedi automobile in Trivandrum, they were very candid about the ownership experience.

I fell in love with this car primarily because it reminded me of my old Tata Estate, a diesel without a huge turbo surge, heavy built, rear wipers and a hydraulic power steering.

On a personal note I found the design of most Japanese cars unattractive.

Would update with ownership review of Punto in another thread. Closing this thread from my perspective.

[yatin]

Congrats! As a former Palio Stile (albeit petrol) owner, I know exactly what you're talking about & I miss that in the petrol Etios I drive now.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by yatin

Congrats! As a former Palio Stile (albeit petrol) owner, I know exactly what you're talking about & I miss that in the petrol Etios I drive now.

The 1.5 AT figo aspire is going to be a very interesting alternative that might fit your needs. It is a hoot to drive and decent build quality too, along with ESP, TC, hill hold etc.

I just test drove it on a whim (not buying now) and it was fun. I'd still prefer my 2014 1.5 TDCI Fiesta but then that's incredibly rare now so..

[silverado]

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

An update after a long pause, I have ditched both options and all reasonable options as well.

I have opted for a Punto evo powertech and booked the same in September and would take delivery when I am back in November to Trivandrum

I am surprised you didnt go for NEXON, in my mind NEXON is an improved ZEST on all fronts.
Anyways congratulations on your purchase, looking forward to your ownership report.