[nma83]

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Not at all bad. I drive one in Bangalore and through roads heavily infested with craters.
I read somewhere that European cars mention the ground clearance as the lowest point whereas japanese cars mention the clearance from a preset mid-point of the underbody - which may not be the actual lowest point.
Not sure if this is true.

I second that. I also drive it through pretty bad roads to escape the jams at my office's gate. The car has handled everything that BBMP or BWSSB diggers leave behind . But this is mostly with 1 or 2 people and no luggage. I think we have to be careful with a fully loaded car.

[imidnightmare]

Originally Posted by sandhyab

As a firmly footed middle class person, realistically I will choose Honda Civic since simply cannot afford the tantrums and prices of servicing a Skoda

I'm middle-class too and there's no way I'm buying another Honda. I have two (City and Brio) and service is a nightmare. I used to hear people talk about it earlier and wonder why they cribbed. Then Linkway became Viva Honda and my word, it's terrible. The cars are almost never fixed completely. The nightmare of "quarterly service" ensures I'm missing a car quite often and their SAs are dumb and inefficient - not to mention that a trip there in person is a complete nightmare. Service costs aren't low either.

By contrast, the Octy (now almost 18 months old) needs just an annual service visit - and that (the once it's gone) too has been seamless. So far, no complaints - and unlike the Hondas, you don't see the car start to develop rattles etc. What most people forget is "total cost of service" that accumulates. The Japanese cars go 4 times a year! And that's in a good year.

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

Purely on the basis of the product, my rankings would be -
1) Octavia
2) Civic
3) Elantra
4) Corolla Altis

But my vote goes to the Civic. The Octavia is the better car, but the Civic is the better package thanks to better after-sales, resale value and ride-handling balance.

Underwhelming powertrain aside, the Civic pretty much does it all. Great looks, comfy cabin, brilliant dynamics and top notch build quality.

As above, the Octavia any day for me. Have one and have never regretted the choice. Am about to buy another D1/D2 and my father's (conservative man if there ever was one) first words were, "Why not just buy another Skoda? Been such a great experience". This from a man who just 18 months ago, wanted to replace his Corolla with an Altis and was deeply suspicious of Skoda / the overall VW stable.

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Not at all bad. I drive one in Bangalore and through roads heavily infested with craters.
I read somewhere that European cars mention the ground clearance as the lowest point whereas japanese cars mention the clearance from a preset mid-point of the underbody - which may not be the actual lowest point.
Not sure if this is true.

This is true. My City has a higher (on paper) GC than the Octy but scrapes anything larger than the odd pebble. The Octy is way better and almost never has such issues. Suspension setting also plays a role of course, but I've had a similar experience with the 330i as well. That too has a lower stated GC than the Japanese cars (Hondas specifically) but is way superior on this front. I was super worried about the GC before my Octavia TD. As I mentioned on my detailed post on that though, was a hoot. Never regretted.

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by imidnightmare

I'm middle-class too and there's no way I'm buying another Honda. I have two (City and Brio) and service is a nightmare. .... Service costs aren't low either.

So far, no complaints - and unlike the Hondas, you don't see the car start to develop rattles etc. What most people forget is "total cost of service" that accumulates. The Japanese cars go 4 times a year! And that's in a good year.

This is true. My City has a higher (on paper) GC than the Octy but scrapes anything larger than the odd pebble.

My experience with the Hondas have been pretty different, thankfully.

I have had a Brio for 7 years and a City for a few months now. Haven't faced any nightmarish service issues with the Brio at all, in fact service has been pretty smooth and costs about as much as my earlier car, the Swift, which I had for another 7 plus years. Which is to say, normal service costs at par with the segment expectations, and pretty reasonable overall. The quality of the service centre in question will also play a part.

No rattles on the Brio at all, and this with regular maintenance and no pussy-footing over the bad roads of Bangalore. On the City, no build quality issues though its quite early days.

The Brio also goes once a year for service, and works absolutely fine with that schedule. The City will be going twice a year to maintain the extended warranty benefits. Never heard of anyone needing to service their cars four times a year for sure, with average yearly running.

Ground clearance wise, I have not faced any instance of the Brio or City scraping the huge speed breakers of Bangalore, except one or two days when there were five full size adults in the car - and that too, only on the most badly constructed of them (only on the Brio, never on the City). As long as you drive at zero speeds over them, the suspension does not bottom out, whether on the Brio or the new gen City. By habit, I ensure that speed breakers are crossed at crawling speeds, and I am good to go with any car, Honda or otherwise.

[imidnightmare]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

My experience with the Hondas have been pretty different, thankfully.

I have had a Brio for 7 years and a City for a few months now. Haven't faced any nightmarish service issues with the Brio at all, in fact service has been pretty smooth and costs about as much as my earlier car, the Swift, which I had for another 7 plus years. Which is to say, normal service costs at par with the segment expectations, and pretty reasonable overall. The quality of the service centre in question will also play a part.

No rattles on the Brio at all, and this with regular maintenance and no pussy-footing over the bad roads of Bangalore. On the City, no build quality issues though its quite early days.

The Brio also goes once a year for service, and works absolutely fine with that schedule. The City will be going twice a year to maintain the extended warranty benefits. Never heard of anyone needing to service their cars four times a year for sure, with average yearly running.

Ground clearance wise, I have not faced any instance of the Brio or City scraping the huge speed breakers of Bangalore, except one or two days when there were five full size adults in the car - and that too, only on the most badly constructed of them. As long as you drive at zero speeds over them, the suspension does not bottom out, whether on the Brio or the new gen City. By habit, I ensure that speed breakers are crossed at crawling speeds, and I am good to go with any car, Honda or otherwise.

Those are the things I said too when with a fully Jap garage. I no longer take bumps at 0 speed (unless in the City / Brio). Also, with an Octavia for example, for 40K, you cover 4 years of service (adding to the 4yr warranty I got it with - they now offer a 6 yr. warranty so I don't know if this amount is different).

When I was selecting a vehicle, I had major doubts about the Skoda. Took me a while and posts / PMs from members of this very forum to make me consider it objectively. Once you drive the Octavia and look at the advantages it offers, you realize that the downsides just aren't worth missing out on it.

Decades of listening to the woes of others have conditioned our thinking I feel. Or maybe I'm just lucky. But most around me with Skodas (not VW, by the bye) seem quite happy - and several have remarked that the stable has indeed upped its game on A.S.S. in the last few years. I genuinely feel that fears over Skoda A.S.S. are just not sufficient to justify opting for a clearly inferior Japanese / Korean car.

PS: There's absolutely no comparison on build quality. None at all.

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by imidnightmare

Decades of listening to the woes of others have conditioned our thinking I feel. Or maybe I'm just lucky. But most around me with Skodas (not VW, by the bye) seem quite happy - and several have remarked that the stable has indeed upped its game on A.S.S. in the last few years. I genuinely feel that fears over Skoda A.S.S. are just not sufficient to justify opting for a clearly inferior Japanese / Korean car.

PS: There's absolutely no comparison on build quality. None at all.

Totally agree with you on this point. I have owned a Skoda Rapid for 7 years and now own an Octavia TSI. We have a Skoda Fabia in our family since 2010. Never faced any service issue and really glad that the service interval is 15k or 1 year.
I often feel irritated when people who have never even driven a Skoda, pass judgements like "Skoda's ASS horror". Come on!

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by imidnightmare

Those are the things I said too when with a fully Jap garage. I no longer take bumps at 0 speed (unless in the City / Brio).
PS: There's absolutely no comparison on build quality. None at all.

Agreed on the build quality, for sure Europeans have a much better build. However much like the majority of us, the absence of that peace of mind factor is just not palatable for me when considering plonking down hard earned money. For instance, even though the Polo/ Vento TSI variants really attracted me, I could not disregard the DSG issues which abound, even on this forum itself. My money thus went to the Honda City. Hence, the compromises that I have to make in terms of lesser build quality etc. when choosing a Jap over a Euro car are overall much smaller considerations.

Performance wise, appropos the subject matter of this thread, no question that the Octavia is a superior machine to the Civic . Maybe one day I'll have the wallet and risk appetite to own the Octy.

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

. For instance, even though the Polo/ Vento TSI variants really attracted me, I could not disregard the DSG issues which abound, even on this forum itself. My money thus went to the Honda City. Hence, the compromises that I have to make in terms of lesser build quality etc. when choosing a Jap over a Euro car /

Typical middle class indian mentality is to preserve things rather than experience it to the fullest. Hence, the aversion to risk.
My aunt bought a great looking sofa but covered it with ugly sofa cover because she didn't want to take risk of stains. She never enjoyed the sofa to the fullest because of that. Last year, floods came and the her covered sofa was destroyed.

Similarly, just because of a perception of risk, people buy lesser build cars and live with lesser performance rather than buying better cars and enjoying it when you can.

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by Lambydude

My aunt bought a great looking sofa but covered it with ugly sofa cover because she didn't want to take risk of stains. She never enjoyed the sofa to the fullest because of that. Last year, floods came and the her covered sofa was destroyed.

Similarly, just because of a perception of risk, people buy lesser build cars and live with lesser performance rather than buying better cars and enjoying it when you can.

Congratulations on your "better car" and of course your finely honed risk perceptions. And due commiserations to your aunt on the loss of her rendered-ugly sofa.

As for me, I'm very happy enjoying the fruits of my "middle class" purchase. As are many other BHPians who share this reprehensible and abhorrent middle class mentality

And oh- I'm sure the wealth of DSG failures are nothing but a collectively imagined paranoia among the said middle class.

[imidnightmare]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

Congratulations on your "better car" and of course your finely honed risk perceptions. And due commiserations to your aunt on the loss of her rendered-ugly sofa.

As for me, I'm very happy enjoying the fruits of my "middle class" purchase. As are many other BHPians who share this reprehensible and abhorrent middle class mentality

And oh- I'm sure the wealth of DSG failures are nothing but a collectively imagined paranoia among the said middle class.

Mate, mate, mate! You seem to have done some study on the DSG but not a comprehensive one. To the uninitiated, there’s just “DSG” and the associated “issues”. But that’s just the surface. For one, there’s two types - wet and dry. There are multiple variants of the DSG (DQ200, DQ220, DQ250...) and cars get a different one based on design. Also, you have to realize that the DQ200 issues cropped up an age ago and manufacturers aren’t complete morons. Even if the initial response was horrific, pressure - perceptions, sales and legal / regulatory - weren’t just in India, but also China and the western markets. This pressure has led to changes.

For the record - unsure if you have studied it but there are a lot of other cars too that use DCT (dual clutch) which is what the DSG is, as well. VW’s DSG was however the forerunner and did face some serious issues when going “dry” with the DQ200. They have since acted to fix it.

I did a huge amount of research on this and realized that making a decision based on a cursory 5-minute study didn’t make sense.

You’re free to make your choices and go for the “safer” option. That said, to me “safety” includes build quality as a critical parameter.

Like I’ve said previously, I have gone through this process. You can read my Octavia thread if you want to check all the stuff I did prior to purchasing. Or you could stick to your views. I’m just giving an opinion here and trying to buttress with what I know. I have no interest in swaying opinion

[pavi]

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Similarly, just because of a perception of risk, people buy lesser build cars and live with lesser performance rather than buying better cars and enjoying it when you can.

Completely
Being at a safer side, does not always warrant a ‘not happy life’ always. It depends on a person’s perceptions about life. Another important factor is family pressure. We all have to make choices in life, it does not be always a ‘enjoy life’ choice. A person owning a European car is also not someone who takes all decisions in life based on the ‘enjoyment factor’. A chronic alcoholic also is enjoying his life as per his perceptions, but he cannot say that a non-alcoholic is not. So let’s respect each other preferences, and keep loving the cars.

No, I did not mean that you are chronic alcoholic

Note: You have a sweet ride in the guise of Octavia 1.8tsi. I wish I had the money to buy and own a Skoda Octavia VRS.

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by pavi

Note: You have a sweet ride in the guise of Octavia 1.8tsi. I wish I had the money to buy and own a Skoda Octavia VRS.

Totally . My point was not at all about buying an expensive car or buying a car which above one's affordability. My point was, given the same budget, there are people who tend to buy cars which are "perceived" as reliable compromising on performance and even safety.

[pavi]

Originally Posted by Lambydude

My point was not at all about buying an expensive car or buying a car which above one's affordability.

So as my point too. I did not consider buying expensive car scenario in any of my previous statements. But what I meant was, selection of a car or even a brand varies from person to person. Otherwise Maruti would not be a market leader in India. Provided Skoda/VW gives a ‘perceived’ better after sales support, many more people would have preferred a Skoda or a VW.

We need to consider one more important point, a perceived average build quality product ‘Toyota Etios’ faired well in crash tests. So we cannot blindly accuse a car as ‘less safe’ just because it’s sheet metal thickness or perceived build quality is average. People have made compromises in every purchase.

[GTO]

Mod Note: Guys, PLEASE ENSURE that you are civil, cordial & respectful, even when debating. It's the Team-BHP way! Thanks for the support & understanding

[vb-saan]

Missed this thread! The Octavia is to its last leg, and the headlight redesign with the facelift was not the best. But even with all that, I feel this is the car to beat in its segment. The Civic is good effort from Honda (probably a proper Honda in India after many years), but for me it still doesn’t have the finesse of the old Octavia. This to Skoda is what the 3-series is for BMW.

[VWAllstar]

Well the decision also depends on what age a person buys them, isn't it?

Me being in the early 30s would always go for the Octavia for the sheer power and fun to drive factor. Add to it the looks and premium feeling the car gives. I own two Volkswagen and their service has been disappointing. But then one must learn about their own cars before it being serviced by others. If you know what are the necessary services to be carried out then it won't turn out to be as expensive as it is said to be. Moreover, their 6 years warranty, service packages and 15k kms /1 year schedule are indeed better than other competing cars.

Personally I love Volkswagen more than Skoda. VW have timeless designs and somehow look and feel more premium. Been told several times that the quality of materials used in VWs is a level higher than the Skodas but cannot conclusively prove it. My Vento itself feels more premium from inside than the Rapid.

For my Father, it will always be the Corolla Altis. It has the best rear seat among all. Fuss free ownership and pliant ride quality. Less features but all useful ones been given. The dashboard although very bland, looks really good to me and easy to use. The petrol automatic is easy to drive around in our overcrowded cities with terrible traffic, reliable than any other brand and not much of complicated engineering as Skoda / VW.

When you have a high maintenance kid, your car better be hassle free and easy on pocket. So for me the Octavia but for my Father it will be Corolla, which won't go wrong most times.