[imidnightmare]

OK, so I'm facing a bit of a strange dilemma here - which is why I started a new thread rather than post on an existing one.

I have an Octavia 1.8L&K (2018) but my family is in the market for another sedan. I specify sedan (as I have previously done) so that it's clear that I don't want answers asking me to consider SUVs / crossovers. My mother has genuine issues and anything higher than an Octavia is an issue. At the same time, the issue does also mean something as low as the Civic is a no-go. Anyway, on to the details.

We've had Hondas (replacing one of those) and I don't want to touch one. What we are looking for:

Must-have:
1. Look like a proper executive's car - no small cars / C-segment cars
2. Powerful engine / fun to drive (Octavia 1.8 TSI L&K sort of sets the benchmark right now)
3. Ample legroom - mum can't be bending knees much - so even though she's short, legroom has to be massive
4. Safety (kids!) is paramount - so car build quality has to be great - and safety features are a must
5. Parking / driving aids - In a bigger car, these are pretty much non-negotiable now

Nice-to-have:
1. Electronic seat adjustment for the passenger seat (just missed out on this as the 2019 Octavia has it on the L&K)
2. Ventilated seats (not available on Octavia - and can be given a miss if price becomes too much of an issue)
3. Extended warranty / service packs

Now, economy is a concern - would ideally like something around the 30L OTR kind of figure. Used cars are out - as dad will not countenance it.

Given all the study I've done, it seemed once again like the Octavia just was the "only choice" really. There is just no sedan at all below the luxury cars that comes even remotely close to offering the value proposition of the Octavia. Also, I've had a great experience with the car on all fronts. No concerns therefore - aside from having two identical (almost) cars in the garage. Also, there's always the niggling thought of "is there something I'm missing?

Now, checking with the Skoda dealer:
1. Octavia is not discounted at all right now - or so I'm told (no serious discussions yet)
2. Superb however is available with something like 1.5L off (no serious discussions yet, so this is initial stage)
3. Superb though has not received a facelift - so misses out of the newer headlamps, the virtual cockpit and the motion sensors etc. which the Octavia has received in the 2019 avatar
4. New Octavia will only come out by end-2020 (no point waiting) and the facelifted Superb may launch soon (and price could go up / discounts will likely not be offered - this is apart from the issue of "do you want to be the guinea pig for a new Skoda?")

I must admit I'm confused. Should I opt for one of these? Or is there really some other alternative? I'm not the kind to look at a car for "badge-value" and end up over-paying for dross like the A3 (cramped and just doesn't feel right) and the others are well above price budget...

Other details:
1. Looking only at top variants as this is the norm - generally prefer taking the fully-loaded variants; always paid off
2. Not looking at diesel as the distances driven don't warrant it
3. Mix will be 75-25 city-highway - with the highway runs being from Mumbai to adjoining business areas (Pune, Nashik, Daman etc.) as well as the occasional personal trip
4. Won't be used for any manner of even soft-roading (Hexa will go for that)

Any insight / help / advice would be appreciated.

[Axe77]

I believe the Passat had some fabulous deals some time ago. I would definitely check that out. The Highline Connect might be nearly as good as a top of line variant perhaps if that works for you.

IMO, that's the only sedan I can think of that meets your requirements if you did not want to repeat the Octavia.

It will have the same German attributes as your Octavia but yet bring in some freshness as a different product. It might push the budget just a little bit but I feel it should be well worth it. At least start a conversation with them and see what is the best they can do on discounts and pricing, considering how the auto sector is generally in a slump and the Passat is by no means a fast mover.

[Hayek]

You are stuck with very few choices here. Agree the Octavia is good - and presume you are ok with service so far or at least willing to live with any issues given the value offered by the car. The Passat is good, and will have more leg room than an Octavia. Assuming your FTD urge is taken care of by the Octavia, I would consider the Camry - the new car is very well equipped, decently priced and makes immense sense in the city (even if it costs ₹3-4 lakhs more than a Superb, you will likely recover that in the resale value)

[MileCruncher]

As already mentioned, I would certainly look at the Passat and the Camry.



I would also look at the Superb and specifically at the Sportline which is discounted and available at 26.0L ex showroom.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I would consider the Camry - the new car is very well equipped, decently priced and makes immense sense in the city (even if it costs ₹3-4 lakhs more than a Superb, you will likely recover that in the resale value)

Camry certainly is a fabulous option but I was under the impression that when you factor VAG group discounts compared to Toyota, the price delta is MUCH higher.

He has a 30 lakh OTR budget so the discounted Passat / Superb will already stretch it but the Camry will straight away mean a 50% jump at ~45 lakh OTR.

[hrk997]

You could look at the superb, and while the L and K versions are close to 40 on road, the sportline version costs just as much as the Octavia with discounts. The sportline petrol version was at 26 lakhs ex showroom last month with discounts, although I'm not sure if the offer is available this month, but it certainly implies room for negotiation. I believe the biggest miss on the sportline variant would be the audio system, but the vrs like interiors make up for it. Passat is an alternative, but I don't think they offer any kind of service packages, whereas skoda does. Couple all these facts with the slowdown in the market, and the probable end of the 1.8 engine line, you might be able to negotiate a better deal. Used to be a lot of good cars at this price point, but recent price hikes have pushed all cars into absurd pricing, and one is hard pressed to find options under 40 lakhs, which is by no means a small amount, but still shy of being able to get a good German car.

[imidnightmare]

Originally Posted by Axe77

I believe the Passat had some fabulous deals some time ago. I would definitely check that out. The Highline Connect might be nearly as good as a top of line variant perhaps if that works for you.

IMO, that's the only sedan I can think of that meets your requirements if you did not want to repeat the Octavia.

It will have the same German attributes as your Octavia but yet bring in some freshness as a different product. It might push the budget just a little bit but I feel it should be well worth it. At least start a conversation with them and see what is the best they can do on discounts and pricing, considering how the auto sector is generally in a slump and the Passat is by no means a fast mover.

Hmmm... I've had a good experience with the Octavia thus far, but VW scares me. Friend had a Passat and his service woes were not just extreme, he's had to sell it earlier than he'd have liked to - because of routine parts (not gearbox). Am not sure I want to buy something like that just because it's different.

Originally Posted by Hayek

You are stuck with very few choices here. Agree the Octavia is good - and presume you are ok with service so far or at least willing to live with any issues given the value offered by the car. The Passat is good, and will have more leg room than an Octavia. Assuming your FTD urge is taken care of by the Octavia, I would consider the Camry - the new car is very well equipped, decently priced and makes immense sense in the city (even if it costs ₹3-4 lakhs more than a Superb, you will likely recover that in the resale value)

Boring car, I've always thought. Not a looker and not great to drive. The CVT is a gearbox I can't stand. For reference, I like using the S mode even on the Octavia. CVTs just frustrate the life out of me. Also, at that price, it's not only well over the budget, but starts begging the question of, "If I'm spending that much, why not put in a little bit more for a Bimmer which would at least be good to drive!"

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

As already mentioned, I would certainly look at the Passat and the Camry.

I would also look at the Superb and specifically at the Sportline which is discounted and available at 26.0L ex showroom.

Yeah, Superb is appealing, which is what is making me ask this
The lack of options is galling!

Originally Posted by Axe77

Camry certainly is a fabulous option but I was under the impression that when you factor VAG group discounts compared to Toyota, the price delta is MUCH higher.

He has a 30 lakh OTR budget so the discounted Passat / Superb will already stretch it but the Camry will straight away mean a 50% jump at ~45 lakh OTR.

Is it? Premium is (as you've rightly pointed out) something that I don't think is justified - but also because I don't see the Camry as a car I'd ever want to drive myself. "CVT" is the biggest turn-off I can imagine when I see specifications.

Originally Posted by hrk997

You could look at the superb, and while the L and K versions are close to 40 on road, the sportline version costs just as much as the Octavia with discounts. The sportline petrol version was at 26 lakhs ex showroom last month with discounts, although I'm not sure if the offer is available this month, but it certainly implies room for negotiation. I believe the biggest miss on the sportline variant would be the audio system, but the vrs like interiors make up for it. Passat is an alternative, but I don't think they offer any kind of service packages, whereas skoda does. Couple all these facts with the slowdown in the market, and the probable end of the 1.8 engine line, you might be able to negotiate a better deal. Used to be a lot of good cars at this price point, but recent price hikes have pushed all cars into absurd pricing, and one is hard pressed to find options under 40 lakhs, which is by no means a small amount, but still shy of being able to get a good German car.

Interiors seem to have changed from the erstwhile 2-tone (which I am not a fan of) on the Superb. Will be checking out. For now, looks like I should check up on the Passat. That said, the massive difference in warranty terms does make the Superb seem so much more appealing.

Anyone with a view on how the updated Octavia rates against the Superb?

[itwasntme]

I'd say go for the current Superb L&K TSi and negotiate for BS4 engine + upcoming facelift discounts. The LED headlights, virtual cockpit and interior tweaks are really not waiting for in my opinion. The current one's look is timeless and it will age very well.

However, extensively TD it across a range of roads and commutes as it just may not feel as chuckable or as powerful as the Octy (same engine output combined with the heavier weight of the Superb). The softer suspension and longer wheelbase is the culprit here, but it can be partially corrected by upsizing tyres to 225/50 from the existing 215/55.

Avoid the Passat as buying an expensive VW is even more dicey than a expensive Skoda!

[MileCruncher]

My boss drives the Superb L&K TSI while I drive the Laura TSI. Having driven both extensively, what I feel when driving the Superb is a certain lack of aggression on the power delivery front. But then it is a 2Tonne beast. However I love the interiors and the whole understated elegant feel to it. As a matter of fact, it is my next upgrade, just that I won't buy new but a pre-owned where the 1st owner has absorbed the depreciation hit.


I also have the Polo GT and having seen the VW customer service, one thing I can firmly vouch is that Skoda customer care is way more responsive and more customer friendly. Having said that, the Passat is a beautiful car. It looks purposeful and the interiors are very classy.


But for me its Superb over the Passat anyday. Matters of the heart. The Superb design is just perfect!!!

[nikhilthegunner]

What about the Hyundai Elantra? That's the only other car you can look at beyond the Passat, Camry and Superb. It looks pretty fabulous and definitely doesn't have a CVT. Why don't you take a look at that?

[Epic]

You are in quiet a dilemma. You haven't specified whether it should be a Petrol or Diesel.

I can see that you have zeroed down on 03 cars specifically - Skoda Octavia, Skoda Superb and VW Passat.

We own the Skoda Superb TDI L&K and something close (but better) to the Skoda Octavia which is the VW Jetta TDI DSG.

Skoda Superb L&K - Nowhere close to the older generations of Superbs. I honestly do not like the new car. The lighter MQB platform is to blame here. The engine too is not as eager or responsive as the older 2.0 TDI engines. The older VAG cars shared the same 2.0 TDI engines and when we compare our 2010 Skoda Yeti and 2015 VW Jetta; they are waaay more fun to drive than the Superb L&K which is odd considering it's engine is tuned with more power and torque.

Unfortunately for us, we have also had many reliability issues with the car. And this is with the car still under warranty.

Skoda Octavia - Test drove it when I was deciding between the Octavia and the Jetta and chose the Jetta hands down. For some reason the Octavia Petrol does not come with multi-link suspension where the same is present in the Diesel version. And believe me, there is a noticeable difference in ride quality with multi-link suspension. It absorbs the potholes much much better offers much better handling capabilities.

VW Passat - I think this is the car to go for. Its a new design. I personally feel it looks much better than the Superb. Not many seen on the road and when I see one, I can't seem to get my eyes off it. Has those simple yet classy looks.

With regards to the after sales service, I always believe this is dealer dependant. The key is to create a rapport with your service adviser and this has worked very well for us. Even then, I have still found VW to be a tad better than the Skodas in terms of service.

[imidnightmare]

Originally Posted by Epic

You haven't specified whether it should be a Petrol or Diesel.

Skoda Octavia - Test drove it when I was deciding between the Octavia and the Jetta and chose the Jetta hands down. For some reason the Octavia Petrol does not come with multi-link suspension where the same is present in the Diesel version. And believe me, there is a noticeable difference in ride quality with multi-link suspension. It absorbs the potholes much much better offers much better handling capabilities.

I have still found VW to be a tad better than the Skodas in terms of service.

Said petrol - the distances the car will cover don't justify the premium for the diesels I feel - though the Passat of course takes that choice away.

On multi-link you sure about that? Not sure which version you tested, but the current-gen Octavias carry multi-link only on the 1.8 TSIs and not on the diesels from all I have read. The car handles very well (after a change of rubber) in my experience - though I'm not a racer obviously.

On service - can speak only to my experience with Skoda - and my friends' with VW - and the experience is the reverse for me. Of course - as you've said too - this is dealer-dependent. VW however has a much shorter (2 year) warranty, which is a major concern for me. Skoda at least offers 6, so regardless of all else, cost (barring opportunity cost) concerns are mitigated...

[Epic]

Originally Posted by imidnightmare

On multi-link you sure about that? Not sure which version you tested, but the current-gen Octavias carry multi-link only on the 1.8 TSIs and not on the diesels from all I have read.

Yes you are right. Sorry, I mentioned it the other way round. The Skoda Octavia Petrol comes with the multi-link suspension which is omitted in the diesel.

Originally Posted by imidnightmare

The car handles very well (after a change of rubber) in my experience - though I'm not a racer obviously.

That is purely based on the type of rubber provided by OEM. They obviously give harder tyres to last longer rather than handle better. Even our 2017 Mercedes GLC came with Pirellis which were hard. We got them changed to the Michelin and it made a huge difference in the ride quality and handling.

Originally Posted by imidnightmare

On service - can speak only to my experience with Skoda - and my friends' with VW - and the experience is the reverse for me. Of course - as you've said too - this is dealer-dependent. VW however has a much shorter (2 year) warranty, which is a major concern for me. Skoda at least offers 6, so regardless of all else, cost (barring opportunity cost) concerns are mitigated...

We own 03 Skodas and 03 VWs so we have had a taste of both brands in terms of after sales service. Just purchased a VW Polo GT TSI in March and got a 5 year warranty as part of the deal. My Jetta too is running on it's 5th year of extended warranty. Do recheck the warranty part as 5 years seems to be the standard these days even with a brand like Maruti.

[imidnightmare]

Yeah - it's not a great position to be honest. You're one of the few advocating VW after owning one that's not a Polo / Vento, so at least . Still, makes sense to check it out.

The rubber is a major annoyance. Stock tyres are really poor and affect most aspects of performance driving. Anyway, easily addressable at least.

Will check on the warranty and service packages on offer. They go a long way to reassuring me ;-).

[lamborghini]

There are a lot of Passat posts here - and I can see why too.
The car is classy, feature loaded, compact enough for city driving, and feels a lot more premium than the Superb.
Heck, should a tree happen to fall on our Altis / S-Cross : The Passat would be my pick!

That being said : It is FWD with a lot of torque steer which takes away from the experience, and feels a little lower too.

Service in Mumbai seems to be a non-issue, with reputed dealers like Shaman & Autobahn
taking up dealerships.

Yes, you will have to wait for parts at times, but it is something you will have to deal with any car in this segment to be very honest.

If that is 100% out, the Superb is next on the list. It won't be as chuck-able or quick as the Octavia but it is a luxury car at the end of the day and a competent one at that.
That being said you will have two cars that could potentially have the same issues, drive very similarly, and feel very similar as well.

Just some other options:
1) I'd enquire about the deals on the Mercedes Benz B Class. Very easy to get in and out of, inherently practical, has badge value, and is a brilliant car that will complement the Hexa (highways and off roading) and Octavia (fun to drive).
You should be able to manage a solid discount as well!

2)BMW F30 320d / 330i : It will push your budget, but expect great discounts with the new 3 series around the corner. RWD + a fun engine and GB combo! Keep the Octy for the home chores, and slide over to work!

3) Wait for the new Octavia unless you absolutely have to sell the City. It is expected in a year or so.

4) Just get a Corolla for the family duties. It will be one car you will never want to drive, but will have the best backseat in the house - even trumping the Octavia. Both mom & dad like it so much that it's now the second highest running car at home (after the S-Cross), and has seen several trips to Pune, Mahabaleshwar despite there being better cars at home. Mom hates SUVs (even the Tiguan with its relatively ease of ingress and egress), dad hates low slung cars (due to his height and age) - the corolla is the best compromise! I never drive it as much as is possible, and my 328i gives a better FE - but if I am ever driven around, the corolla is my pick just due to the back seat.