[BleueNinja]

Hi folks ,

I booked the Virtus 1.0 Topline AT today. However, I am in a bit of a dilemma and I would appreciate feedback from learned folks on this forum.

I really want to go for the GT variant but is the DSG gearbox really that bad as it’s made out to be? I frequently travel during nights on highway, so is there a decent enough chance I might be left stranded? there was an option to book 1.5 MT but, I didn’t want to splurge huge money on car yet miss out on creature comforts.

My second query is, should I go for XUV700 AX5 MT? or Tata harrier XT ? I am not comfortable waiting for a year for a car and with TATA again reliability is in question over here. I am a sedan guy and the only reason why SUV is in picture over here is because of my frequent highway travel and to be honest the peer pressure being created by family and friends to go for a SUV.

Head says to go for 1.0 TSI AT or Book harrier/xuv 700 but, I really want to own a DSG / TSI combo considering this might be my last ICE car.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

I really want to go for the GT variant but is the DSG gearbox really that bad as it’s made out to be?

The DQ200 DSG has a high failure rate and is inherently a flawed design. VW-Skoda can keeping harping about improvements & magical new "oils" all day long, but I reckon 6 - 7 out of 10 DQ200s will fail in the long run. The only reason we don't hear of many failures of the current crop of DSGs is they're not old enough (or have as many km on the odometer). Let these DQ200s cross 3 - 4 years of ownership and you'll see complaint threads come up all over the place on our forum.

If you buy the DSG, do so with your eyes open. Take the max extended warranty. We bought a DSG car last year (but the supposedly more durable DQ381 DSG), and are mentally prepared for 2 DSG failures over our typical 10-year ownership period. I've even told my brother that one failure will be within the 6-year warranty period (no cost) and one outside of it (1+ lakh).

Some of us have made peace with the occasional headaches of owning European / German cars, as few others can match their driving pleasure, premium quality, stability, safety etc.

I really want to own a DSG / TSI combo considering this might be my last ICE car.

Go for it. YOLO (you-only-live-once) and all that. I am personally okay with enjoying a German car for 361 days of the year and enduring a headache for 4 days. It's still a 99 : 1 ratio of joy : pain.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

I really want to go for the GT variant but is the DSG gearbox really that bad as it’s made out to be? I frequently travel during nights on highway, so is there a decent enough chance I might be left stranded? there was an option to book 1.5 MT but, I didn’t want to splurge huge money on car yet miss out on creature comforts.

Head says to go for 1.0 TSI AT or Book harrier/xuv 700 but, I really want to own a DSG / TSI combo considering this might be my last ICE car.

This has been a dilemma for folks ever since the dsg dq200 made its first appearance in a relatively mass market car in the form of the Polo TSI and then the Vento TSI back in 2013.

As GTO said, there is no concrete answer to this question. The DSG does have a higher failure probability and there is a good chance it will fail at some point. Having said that, if you like it, there is no reason for not going for it. I have said this multiple times in the past - Atleast in my view the joy of driving the tsi+dsg combo on a daily basis overrides the risk of potential failure. Of course that is just my personal view and it has worked out for me. My Vento TSI is into its 9th year and close to 70k km so far and have not had any issues. Of course, I know that it can and probably will fail at some point.

In addition since both VW and Skoda are now putting it in all their key models- Kushaq, Taigun, Slavia, Virtus, maybe they have done something and have a higher confidence.

Your heart wants it- Go for it. A DSG can only be bought by the heart, never by the mind

[androdev]

Not taking calculated risks in life is as unwise as being reckless. GTO's assessment is spot on, if you have stomach for it, you should go for it by all means. For the right driver, DSG is super special and you will thank your decision everytime you drive it
More than the risks of failure, don't buy DSG if your driving is mostly within city crawling traffic. It's meant to for enthusiastic driving with bursts of accel/deceleration - if you know what i mean. It is worth all the risks and headache for such drives. Look elsewhere for sedate cruising or urban congested commute.

[bhushan08]

I've the infamous DSG dq200 in my Polo. ~20K on ODO. No issues so far but there is a nagging fear every day as the car gets older. Irrespective, the pleasure of driving the car every day makes up for the fear.

Go for it, knowing fully well that there is a chance the gearbox will die on you. Just hope it does not die far away from civilisation

[noopster]

My advice is simple: don't touch a DSG with a barge pole. Virtually everyone who has owned one has had mechatronics failures. While some are easily fixed, others will cost you time, money and peace of mind.

In fact I'm mistrustful of all double-clutch units, even settling for a diesel Seltos with 25 BHP less than the turbo petrol just because mine came with a conventional torque convertor instead of the 7-DCT. Its just not worth the hassle in my opinion. A car should start every time and never break down, and having a low-reliability piece in the mix really messes up things!

[shifu]

Originally Posted by noopster

A car should start every time and never break down, and having a low-reliability piece in the mix really messes up things!

In an utpoian world, I would agree with this statement. But practically, there is no car that never breaks down. Some breakdown more often than others.

I own a DSG since 2016, and hence my opinion might be biased. But in the last 42k kms, I have never repented buying my Vento TSI. Driving this car is an auto enthusiasts pure delight. I take all precautions (including nimbu+mirchi) and pray/hope for the best. Have taken extended warranty all through out and plan to take it till the 7th year. Beyond that life is unpredictable to plan for every thing.

My 2 cents to the OP - buy what your heart wants and prepare for the worst. Rest will fall in place

[arindambasu13]

Personally speaking, while I like the looks and engines etc of the VW/Skoda cars, any car in that stable equipped with a DSG transmission is a no-no for me. Would not go near them notwithstanding extended warranty and what not. May be a coincidence or otherwise, but all of the 5 people in my immediate circle who own these cars have suffered transmission breakdowns at inopportune moments, and only served to increase my apprehension about the matter.

End of the day, it is my personal opinion about DSG transmissions, but it is certainly born out of live examples that I have personally seen and otherwise heard or read about. I would suggest that you consider the CVT or manual options if that is a possibility.

[EV NXT]

Reproducing my post in another thread:

It’s better to refer to it as the Direct Stress Generator

And add the following to the cost and ownership experience:

1. 1.5 - 2 lakhs for one more DSG

2. A month or two to wait for parts to arrive, so the cost of hiring another car in the interim.

3. The stress of dealing with VW ASC the numerous back and forth, rejection of your representations by Skoda and the feeling of being shortchanged.

4. The likelihood of other damage to the car while waiting in the ASC.

5. The bitter experience will put paid to your dream of driving the car like an enthusiast as you would be scared of going through the Skoda ordeal all over again.

As a bonus you could count the number of times you kick yourself for having knowingly bought a DSG.

[ike]

Would have been an easier decision to make if there were affordable leasing plans. Currently leasing a car is expensive but hopefully the prices will be rationalized with time as more people show interest in leasing cars, just like how cellular and data plans became affordable. The biggest advantage I see is that it addresses the reliability concerns if the maintenance is done by the lessor and owning potentially unreliable cars will become easier to manage.

[giri1.8]

1L Tsi with remap will take the numbers close to 130bhp & 220nm(stage 1), TC automatic also has better response off the line, so this might be a decent compromise to consider.

1.5L won't be mod friendly due the DSG.

[audioholic]

I was worried about this. Then I spoke to a cousin who owned a Polo GT TSi(first gen) and covered 60k kms in it and then brought a Tiguan DSG. To be honest he did have one DSG failure in Polo which he paid for and got replaced. Yet he swears by the driving experience. For me there are no alternatives to a product like the Virtus or Slavia. And I have been repeatedly assured from multiple sources that the DSG has been worked upon heavily both in terms of hardware and software. The transmission might not last as long as a TC automatic. But I do not think it would let you down randomly unless one is very unlucky. Hence I decided to go ahead with the Slavia DSG. Mostly would be going for BH registration where on a 15 year basis I would still save more than a lakh. This money would be parked in an investment fund earmarked for the DSG Hence, while there still might be an issue with it, let’s listen to the owners and hear their experiences.

We got a TC AT Innova at home just because I wanted something reliable for my parents to take it anywhere without fearing a breakdown. And with that we also compromised with features v/s pricing just for the reputation the car carries. But as a car I would primarily use, I will mentally prepare myself for a failure or two of the DSG. Like I said elsewhere, this would be the case with any German car ownership.

Originally Posted by giri1.8

1L Tsi with remap will take the numbers close to 130bhp & 220nm(stage 1), TC automatic also has better response off the line, so this might be a decent compromise to consider.

1.5L won't be mod friendly due the DSG.

Then that would be a race between whether you face an engine failure or a transmission failure. The 1.0 AT is already on an aggressive state of tune. Pushing it further is taking things too far IMO.

[sunikkat]

Well if in your place Slavia / Virtus 1.5 DSG would have been my default choice. For me few lakhs more OTR for 1.5 is totally worth over 1 TSI if you are planning to keep it for long.
As others mentioned there is a almost certain risk with DSG, depends on whether you are ready to take it for the driving pleasure. I would totally go for it, as life itself is uncertain, and do not want to repent my decision of not going with the heart.

Originally Posted by giri1.8

1L Tsi with remap will take the numbers close to 130bhp & 220nm(stage 1), TC automatic also has better response off the line, so this might be a decent compromise to consider.

1.5L won't be mod friendly due the DSG.

If I am not wrong, DSG is more mod friendly with TCU tune. Also there are many last gen Octavia’s 1.8 with high state tune > 250 torque running without any issues.

[AKSarkar1]

It depends on many many factors. I know people who have hooned around in their DSG from day 1 of owning the car and then acting confused as to why the gearbox failed. As GTO pointed out yes the gearbox combo is inherently flawed but that is not the only reason behind DSG failures.

I used to own a Polo GT and didn't experience any problem with it until I sold it at the 5 year mark. The next owner who is a close friend of mine encountered DSG issues around 1.5 years later.

However, when I picked up a Vento in 2015/16 I didn't want the headache of DSG because I knew I wanted to keep the car for a long time. Got a MT as back in the day there was no AT/AMT option (only DSG).

I personally would say that if you intend to keep the car for longer, the 1.0 TSI is the better bet in terms of reliability.

All the best!

[igemini]

I owned DSG equipped cars and it did not failed after using for 5 years but that ownership was not in India though. Yet, when I wanted to buy a Polo/Vento in India I was seriously concerned about the DSG failure and I waited longer period to get a 1.0TSI AT combo. Partially, I also wanted the 1.0TSI over the 1.2TSI as the 1.0 is a much newer engine.

I take care of my cars really well. And I was also worried about the ABS sensor failures before and after purchase. So I never ever used a pressure washer or drove the car through water clogged areas. Still, I had to replace all the 4 ABS sensors at a mere 5k Kms and 11 months of ownership. I knew it was coming in a span of 4-5 years but never even thought that early. On top the initial service center experience was not that good either. It was troublesome and irritating but once when it's okay, I tend to forget it and started enjoying the drive and that's how it supposed to be. But I can tell you the ownership won't be a butter smooth one for sure.

You cannot expect a car to be never breakdown or trouble free. But with DSG, the chances of failure will be much higher compared to a CVT. Make peace with it if you can and purchase the car if you really want it. Or else every time when you see that 1.5 DSG, you may regret for not buying it when you could.

But if you are seriously worried about the DSG failure every moment while driving then better not to get the DSG. The 1.0 TSI is a very capable engine unlike many thinks. So drive both back to back for extended duration, with full load in various conditions and decide which version you want.

You may also consider Honda City, which can be best of both worlds.

I'm a sedan guy as well. So anyday sedan over SUV, unless you have to deal with really bad roads most of the days.