Best Sedan in 5-6 lakh category?

RX135 · 18th March 2005, 12:20

I had same question 3-4 months back and I chose Petra after lot of thought. Other cars I thought of, were Baleno and Ford Ikon. Never liked Accent! I found Petra to be the best car in that segment, if you are ready to ignore resale value.

RX135 · 18th March 2005, 12:22

And remember, all those complaining about Fiat A/S/S are non-fiat owners. My car is off for its first servicing, so will make my opinion after it comes back

Buying experience was very pleasant.

Steeroid · 18th March 2005, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

BTW, whatever happened to the Swift??? Where is it??

Shan2nu

I think the USP of the Swift was going to be its common rail engine, called JTD or something like that.

That was to be sourced from Fiat. Now that Fiat have licked $ 5 Billion off GM for NOT buying it (this must be the biggest con-job in history - pay me so that you dont have to buy me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), I would imagine that GM is wary of any more 'deals' with the Italian mafia. Besides they have their own problems at home, having just announced that their 2005 profits may be off target by 80% !!!!! - I wonder who taught them math.

That being the case, the Swift would have to come in with the Esteem or Wagon R engines or a combination of both. Being a newer car, their margins on this car would be much lower than those on their existing models for which they have probably recovered costs many times over - they will make more money selling Esteems than Swifts, for instance. Moreover, once the Swift comes in it will probably canniballise on existing models in the Maruti stable, many of which will be giving Maruti better returns per car than a new vehicle - this is unlike the Getz which is probably skimming off very little from the Santro's sales on account of a very clear differentiation in segmentation.

The cost of promoting this car will also be high, given that they will have to push aggressively to get people to buy the hatchback which costs more than a sedan - Hyundai Getz away with it because they created a new segment altogether and went into a space that was vacant. This wont be the case with the Swift, as we have already seen the Fusion being priced out of the market.

Its a Catch 22 situation, so they will either have to bring it out immediately or wait for the sales of existing models to start tapering off. Its a very good-looking car, and it would be fascinating to see if Toyota brings in their RunX a.k.a XA into the market as well - the Swift looks similar to the XA from the pics that I have seen, though it is allegedly based on the Mini Cooper's looks.

Cheers

Steer

typeOnegative · 18th March 2005, 15:48

You seem to have serious problems with Fiat. LOL.

Regarding Fiat and GM, we do not know who is the Mafia - so there.

Steeroid · 18th March 2005, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

You seem to have serious problems with Fiat. LOL.

Regarding Fiat and GM, we do not know who is the Mafia - so there.

You get me wrong - I admire them for what they did and the Yanks deserve it !!! It may be a con job, but it was brilliant! I run a business myself and I wouldnt complain if someone were to pay me that kind of money for NOT buying my business

I dont have a problem with Fiat - I have a problem with over-rated cars.

Steer

Steeroid · 18th March 2005, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

You seem to have serious problems with Fiat. LOL.

Fiat seems to have more problems with itself than from others - its struggling to stay afloat abroad and its market outside Italy is shrinking thanks to suspect quality across the board and an unviable cost base.

Most European manufacturers are feeling the pinch of the latter, which is why you see many of them looking for overseas production bases. Watch Renault come into India - its not because they want to sell about 20 - 30,000 Logans a year in India. Its more because they want to source cheap components and probably assemble other cars here for sale elsewhere.

Steer

typeOnegative · 18th March 2005, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

You get me wrong - I admire them for what they did and the Yanks deserve it !!! It may be a con job, but it was brilliant! I run a business myself and I wouldnt complain if someone were to pay me that kind of money for NOT buying my business

The fundamental point is that GM made a bad deal. They had to pay to get rid of the put option - that is finance for you. And as to whether it was bad for them, I think they got off too cheap. I would have preferred GM taking over the management of Fiat's car business - atleast in India.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I dont have a problem with Fiat - I have a problem with over-rated cars.

Which Fiat car do you think is over-rated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Fiat seems to have more problems with itself than from others - its struggling to stay afloat abroad and its market outside Italy is shrinking thanks to suspect quality across the board and an unviable cost base.

I thought Fiat was doing pretty well in Brazil and South Africa. And regarding the slump in sales, well it is mismanagement I think. More than suspect quality. My statement was that 'you' have a problem with Fiat. Actually it is okay if you do. I am buying a Fiat product.

Steeroid · 18th March 2005, 16:28

1. Move to another thread and get back to topic.

2. In my opinion, the Palios and the Petras are over-rated.

3. I've lived in both the aforementioned countries and what you have said is true for Brazil, where they also prefer the likes of the Opel Corsa and the Seats. However, the Koreans (and the Chinese!!!) are beginning to make inroads in those markets - its a matter of time, since these are markets that were not addressed by the latter two before.

4. Feel free - I do not write to influence your decision making process. I try to be objective and practical, although sometimes you need to oversteer to correct the general direction.

Steeroid · 18th March 2005, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

I would have preferred GM taking over the management of Fiat's car business - atleast in India.

To manage the sale of about 5000 cars in a year? They must be selling those numbers every few minutes around the world...

ADMIN: Sorry, but I just couldnt resist it!!!

Steer

typeOnegative · 18th March 2005, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

To manage the sale of about 5000 cars in a year? They must be selling those numbers every few minutes around the world...

ADMIN: Sorry, but I just couldnt resist it!!!

Steer

No no. To make the sales in India 50,000 odd in a year.

ADMIN: Sorry, but I could not resist that either.

coloneljasi · 18th March 2005, 18:17

Whoah!This seems like a discussion in Parliament (If you can ever call it that!).I think the original question was about buying a car.Not buying shares!!Test drive all the cars that you're considering,weigh your priorities and just go the one that you like best.It's your money and depending on your choice (and luck),you could end up driving your dream or your nightmare.Best of luck and happy shopping!

ajmat · 18th March 2005, 19:18

From the test reports that I have read the Swift is a good drive, however, rear space is a bit tight so the Getz has an advantage. Engine choices are the 1.3 and 1.5. Old Esteem engine is good in itself so who's complaining !

GM wanted to avoid Fiat as they need to close enough facctories temselves due to overcapacity. If they took over Fiat, they would need to close even more factories and take a hit on redundancy costs, lawyers etc. Labour in Italy ain't easy whn it comes to shutting down.

Although they have divorced, some comonent sharing wil still go on. Am not sure whether Suzuki will build the JTD engine in India but Fiat might ...and make more money from this than their cars - go the HM way I guess!

lamborghini · 18th March 2005, 22:57

Hey buddy,
Just go for the petra.
The reasons will be found in other threads.
SPECIALLY THE OVERRATED ONE.

nmdeccanet · 20th March 2005, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

If you prefer Fords then pick up the Anniversary edition Flair. It comes loaded and for around 5.5 - 5.7 On road in Mumbai. The new Baleno (EIII) will work out closer to 6.2. The Petra is 5.06 on road.

Petra 5.06 on road, where pal? Bangalore dealer hiked the ex showroom to 4.96 as per the price sheet (from 4.75 a couple of month back). On road is 5.68 in bangalore. if EL is 5.06 on road then fully loaded ELX should be 5.6, but ELX isnt out is it? With petrol prices shooting up, Fiat could get rid of their exsiting diesel engine and get the famous 1.9 JTD which delivers a cool 100+ bhp. Atleast they can claim, that they got the top dog diesel plants in their steel can. :-)

lamborghini · 20th March 2005, 15:55

The petrol ELX isnt out as yet.
The car costs 5.06L on road after discount.
You should consider coming to bombay and buying the car.
It will still be cheaper.

18th March 2005, 12:20	#16
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	I had same question 3-4 months back and I chose Petra after lot of thought. Other cars I thought of, were Baleno and Ford Ikon. Never liked Accent! I found Petra to be the best car in that segment, if you are ready to ignore resale value.
	() Thanks

18th March 2005, 12:22	#17
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	And remember, all those complaining about Fiat A/S/S are non-fiat owners. My car is off for its first servicing, so will make my opinion after it comes back Buying experience was very pleasant.
	() Thanks

18th March 2005, 15:48	#19
typeOnegative Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India Posts: 1,503 Thanked: 27 Times	You seem to have serious problems with Fiat. LOL. Regarding Fiat and GM, we do not know who is the Mafia - so there.
	() Thanks

18th March 2005, 16:28	#23
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	1. Move to another thread and get back to topic. 2. In my opinion, the Palios and the Petras are over-rated. 3. I've lived in both the aforementioned countries and what you have said is true for Brazil, where they also prefer the likes of the Opel Corsa and the Seats. However, the Koreans (and the Chinese!!!) are beginning to make inroads in those markets - its a matter of time, since these are markets that were not addressed by the latter two before. 4. Feel free - I do not write to influence your decision making process. I try to be objective and practical, although sometimes you need to oversteer to correct the general direction.
	() Thanks

18th March 2005, 18:17	#26
coloneljasi BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KL-11 Posts: 686 Thanked: 251 Times View My Garage	Whoah!This seems like a discussion in Parliament (If you can ever call it that!).I think the original question was about buying a car.Not buying shares!!Test drive all the cars that you're considering,weigh your priorities and just go the one that you like best.It's your money and depending on your choice (and luck),you could end up driving your dream or your nightmare.Best of luck and happy shopping!
	() Thanks

18th March 2005, 19:18	#27
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,858 Thanked: 27,925 Times View My Garage	From the test reports that I have read the Swift is a good drive, however, rear space is a bit tight so the Getz has an advantage. Engine choices are the 1.3 and 1.5. Old Esteem engine is good in itself so who's complaining ! GM wanted to avoid Fiat as they need to close enough facctories temselves due to overcapacity. If they took over Fiat, they would need to close even more factories and take a hit on redundancy costs, lawyers etc. Labour in Italy ain't easy whn it comes to shutting down. Although they have divorced, some comonent sharing wil still go on. Am not sure whether Suzuki will build the JTD engine in India but Fiat might ...and make more money from this than their cars - go the HM way I guess! Last edited by ajmat : 18th March 2005 at 19:20.
	() Thanks

18th March 2005, 22:57	#28
lamborghini Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,112 Thanked: 5,760 Times View My Garage	Hey buddy, Just go for the petra. The reasons will be found in other threads. SPECIALLY THE OVERRATED ONE.
	() Thanks

20th March 2005, 15:55	#30
lamborghini Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,112 Thanked: 5,760 Times View My Garage	The petrol ELX isnt out as yet. The car costs 5.06L on road after discount. You should consider coming to bombay and buying the car. It will still be cheaper.
	() Thanks