[RX135]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

No they won't. Car manufacturers put wrong data about their competitors on their websites all the time with a silly disclaimer.

I quoted a source. There are few others floating around other than Fiat's data, which come to similar conclusion. Why don't you a post ANY source which proves otherwise (including ACI source that is being talked about)?

I fail to understand why are you so keen on rubbishing the data as incorrect even when there is no other source to compare with or prove otherwise? Just because it also points to the fact that AHNC spares are most expensive around?

[ImmortalZ]

You incorrectly assume I want to sell an ANHC. I don't own a dealership neither do I have a stake in Honda. I've never disputed that Honda has expensive spares. I never even used the word Honda or ANHC in a post in this thread until this one. What is your problem?

I dispute the data posted on manufacturer sites because every service bill I have has a small section on the right where they tell you how expensive oft-required consumables are. Optra Magnum's website has a comparative chart where the amounts they list are two to three times the real prices. ACI's print mag data is also catastrophically wrong in places, as was proved in one of the service cost comparison threads (one in those million). Search for it yourself if you are so hell bent on starting a ANHC vs. Linea fanboy catfight on a diesel sedan thread.

I have absolutely no reason to trust FIAT or any other manufacturer on this obvious marketing bovine excreta. I'll be taking the car to Honda for the scheduled 3M repolish at which time I'll compare the data on FIAT's website with HSIL CRM system and see what's what.

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Not sure what you are trying to say. Diesels are inherently more unsafe, so ABS+airbags are a must? Or Swift diesels/all diesels have poorer brakes?

Yes Diesels are more powerful (torquey) and hence with similar brake setup of a petrol will be unsafe, so I recommend ABS+Airbags!

Most of the diesel's share the same brakes+caplipers as their petrol siblings, the problem with a diesel is when you try to reduce speed by downshifting, the car instead surges forward due to engine RPM is within the meaty turbo range, so you will have anxious moments as the car picks up speed when you want to slow down and in panic might have to zig-zag and that's when an ABS will kick-in.

[opendro]

If you don't care about the features of Linea, the Verna is an equally good option (less looks and older model but powerful engine).

But the price difference is 80 lakh, Verna being costlier. Fiat Linea Dynamic Pk 1.3 MJD vs Hyundai Verna VGT CRDi SX ABS | Car Comparisons - CarWale.com=

At least for that price difference and Verna's poorer handling I would go for Linea (I have indeed ). But yeah, seriously, without Airbags and ABS, Linea's power itself is too much!

Ah! Yeah. I forgot to mention. I hate the oil change for every six months. That put me off when I wanted to go for Fiesta S petrol.

[djay99]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Who says you cannot use the power of the verna everyday? Dude, the Verna has an awesome lower rpm power spread. Aalap's friend will enjoy powering out of traffic signals and brisk runarounds in the city, as much as he will enjoy the good highway jaunt.

FYI, I've debated almost 9 cars before deciding on the Verna. I thought the Verna was the best Value for Money when one compares its features offered to its price.

Dude i own a Getz CRDi (with verna diesel engine) and its been almost one year.
Think practically can you use all the 110 horses everyday?
Its not that you can rip your car every time in the city. I am not aware of traffic conditions in kolkatta but here in bangalore its possible rarely.

I am not saying verna is a bad car. But its definitely not worth the money.
In bangalore when i was planning to buy by 2nd car, Verna Crdi was costing 8.75 lacs for base model and 9 lacs for the base model with ABS. Its worth investing one more lac and buying an Optra which is one class above verna.
Probably becuase of lower road tax in WB, you find it to be VFM.
How much did you pay for your car?

[djay99]

Originally Posted by opendro

But the price difference is 80 lakh, Verna being costlier. Fiat Linea Dynamic Pk 1.3 MJD vs Hyundai Verna VGT CRDi SX ABS | Car Comparisons - CarWale.com=

80lakh
I think you tried to mention 80K.

[opendro]

Originally Posted by djay99

80lakh
I think you tried to mention 80K.

Oh! Thank you I have not even dreamt of buying a car worth that much.

[loving_alaap]

Thank you all guys, for your wonderful response & suggestions.

Let me tell you, my friend is not that much tech savy like all you guys, & he want to decide by the crude measures.


As, his daily drive in city is around 30 km, & once or twice weekly his highway drive is around 100km / trip, so effective daily drive is around 60 Km, now that's definitely a diesel territory.

He is currently having Indica V2, and he is fairly satisfied with it. Of course he had frequently faced small small issues with it.

He is not having a F1 mid set, so a decent car is OK with him.

I'll tell you what he said after having test drive of both of the.


Verna: a good car, but looks average.

Linea: looks great, but being a new car, he is concerning about reliability issue. He is fairly satisfied with engine also.

Overall, he is more willing for Linea but having concern of reliability.

He is not having enough budget for emotion pack, so, forget about airbags. (selling his indica also)

So, he might opt for Linea. but you all guys please continue the discussion on it, will give him a better idea, & a valid reason to choose his car.

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by djay99

Dude i own a Getz CRDi (with verna diesel engine) and its been almost one year.
Think practically can you use all the 110 horses everyday?
Its not that you can rip your car every time in the city. I am not aware of traffic conditions in kolkatta but here in bangalore its possible rarely.

I am not saying verna is a bad car. But its definitely not worth the money.
In bangalore when i was planning to buy by 2nd car, Verna Crdi was costing 8.75 lacs for base model and 9 lacs for the base model with ABS. Its worth investing one more lac and buying an Optra which is one class above verna.
Probably becuase of lower road tax in WB, you find it to be VFM.
How much did you pay for your car?

Eh? You live in Bangalore? You commute in office hours? Well then I take back my statement! No offence meant against the city (some of my best friends are Bangaloreans, and I love places like 13th Floor, HRC and those quaint places selling Bheja Kababs near Koramangla). But every time I've travelled to Bangalore for work/leisure, I've met traffic which stands for hours at an end. If you're in a situation where you move 6 inches an hour, a Verna is definitely overpowered!

I bought the CRDI SX ABS model in September 08. It cost me 8.75 lakhs. When I say Value for Money, I dont mean absolute price. I mean the features it offers against the money I pay. Of the 8/9 cars I tested, the Verna was the only one offering me such a powerful engine, an all-round disc package, automatic climate control, the cheapest extended warranty package and promised peace of mind regarding A.S.S. That is why I said the car is VFM.

Anyway, I support Immortalz in not making this a thread for personal mud-slinging. Aalap wanted an opinion, and the more we get the merrier!

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by RX135

I quoted a source. There are few others floating around other than Fiat's data, which come to similar conclusion. Why don't you a post ANY source which proves otherwise (including ACI source that is being talked about)?

Ok - here's a not-too-good partial scan of data pertaining to Verna, Palio Stile and Palio MJD from the ACI survey, but the main info is legible. Can't post the whole survey because it's ACI's intellectual property, and mods will have my hide for it - they already deleted a link to the whole ACI survey posted by me once. I hope I am not breaking any rules by doing this.


I hope this will suffice. Anywhere that Fiat is quoting a lesser price for Linea parts than Palio MJD parts (such as fuel filter, timing belt, radiator hose set, light assemblies, body panels etc.), I am inclined to accept it with a pinch of salt. Some parts are the same for both cars (e.g. timing belt, 50% lesser price in Linea (Rs.1042) than Palio MJD (Rs.2036)), so the prices posted by Fiat may well be a marketing stunt.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Ok - here's a not-too-good partial scan of data pertaining to Verna, Palio Stile and Palio MJD from the ACI survey, but the main info is legible. Anywhere that Fiat is quoting a lesser price for Linea parts than Palio MJD parts (such as fuel filter, timing belt, radiator hose set, light assemblies, body panels etc.), I am inclined to accept it with a pinch of salt. Some parts are the same for both cars (e.g. timing belt, 50% lesser price in Linea (Rs.1042) than Palio MJD (Rs.2036)), so the prices posted by Fiat may well be a marketing stunt.

Why are we talking about Palio spares when the comparison is between Verna Diesel and Linea Diesel? I am not sure how old is ACI data, and hence its relevance, but Fiat had recently cut down even Palio spare prices by almost 40% as posted in another thread. If you don't trust Fiat's own data for parts on their own cars, who else do you trust then?

BTW, talking of marketing stunts, Hyundai is more known for such cheap tactics than Fiat. (Remember, Santro is 5 seater v/s 4 seater Wagon-R because it has extra seat belt).

@ImmortalZ, why don't you post correct data then, if Fiat's data is wrong? Just going on harping about how it is marketing stunt etc. doesn't help prospective buyer much, as much as blindly claiming that XYZ car is cheaper than other.

[djay99]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

Eh? You live in Bangalore? You commute in office hours? Well then I take back my statement! No offence meant against the city (some of my best friends are Bangaloreans, and I love places like 13th Floor, HRC and those quaint places selling Bheja Kababs near Koramangla). But every time I've travelled to Bangalore for work/leisure, I've met traffic which stands for hours at an end. If you're in a situation where you move 6 inches an hour, a Verna is definitely overpowered!

I bought the CRDI SX ABS model in September 08. It cost me 8.75 lakhs. When I say Value for Money, I dont mean absolute price. I mean the features it offers against the money I pay. Of the 8/9 cars I tested, the Verna was the only one offering me such a powerful engine, an all-round disc package, automatic climate control, the cheapest extended warranty package and promised peace of mind regarding A.S.S. That is why I said the car is VFM.

Anyway, I support Immortalz in not making this a thread for personal mud-slinging. Aalap wanted an opinion, and the more we get the merrier!

Yes i do live in bangalore and commute in office hours but i have not come across a route where the vehicles move at 6 inches per hour . Common yaar i think you were travelling in some part of majestic area.
8.75 lacs for SX with ABS is really cheap man. In bangalore it costs around 10 lacs. Now tell me do you think Verna CRDi SX with ABS is VFM if price tag is 10 lacs?
Thats the reason i said in WB the car is cheaper becuase of lower road tax.
I agree with you regarding all round dics package, ABS, CC AC and powerful engine.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

His comparison was to point out that even the Palio's basket of spares is priced more than the Verna, so Linea obviously would be more so!

[quote=SS-Traveller;1250268]Do you mean to say a Palio would be more expensive to maintain than a Linea?
quote]

Don't speculate & derive convenient conclusion. Go & Check Linea spare prices yourself if you do not trust a manufacturer Website. If some posts here are to be believed on veracity of MFR data, do we believe all the Car brochures published by MFR's? We do or we do not?

Originally Posted by RX135

I quoted a source. There are few others floating around other than Fiat's data, which come to similar conclusion. Why don't you a post ANY source which proves otherwise (including ACI source that is being talked about)?

I fail to understand why are you so keen on rubbishing the data as incorrect even when there is no other source to compare with or prove otherwise?

Agreed, if anybody has ANY other source stating Linea spares are costlier, post it.

Originally Posted by djay99

Dude i own a Getz CRDi (with verna diesel engine) and its been almost one year.

I am not saying verna is a bad car. But its definitely not worth the money.

+1 to that. Verna is definitely an over-proced car for the features it offers.

Originally Posted by RX135

Why are we talking about Palio spares when the comparison is between Verna Diesel and Linea Diesel? I am not sure how old is ACI data, and hence its relevance, but Fiat had recently cut down even Palio spare prices by almost 40% as posted in another thread. If you don't trust Fiat's own data for parts on their own cars, who else do you trust then?

BTW, talking of marketing stunts, Hyundai is more known for such cheap tactics than Fiat. (Remember, Santro is 5 seater v/s 4 seater Wagon-R because it has extra seat belt).

The reason is to try to derive a conclusion which is convenient & suited to drive a non-existant point.

Originally Posted by loving_alaap

As, his daily drive in city is around 30 km, & once or twice weekly his highway drive is around 100km / trip, so effective daily drive is around 60 Km, now that's definitely a diesel territory.

Loving_aalap
I would still suggest your friend to calculate again. As I understand, his monthly running is around 1700 km & he has a budget for C seg Diesel car (not the higher variant) i.e. around 7.75 to 8 Lacs

Petrol: 1700 km/11 FE = 154 litres * Rs. 44.55 = Rs. 6885/month
Diesel: 1700 km/14 FE = 121 litres * Rs. 34.45 = Rs. 4168/month

i.e. difference of Rs. 2716/month savings

Against this saving, diesel car price is say higher by 1.20 Lacs than petrol car. After 4 yrs this addl "investment" of 1.20 Lacs will become 1.75 Lacs @ 10% compunded interest. To cover this cost of 1.75 Lacs, it would have taken 64 months (Rs. 1.75 Lacs/ Rs. 2716 per month saving) to breakeven i.e. he will cover addl cost of diesel engine in 5 years & 4 months. After 5 yrs in all probability, he would change the car anyways so why not to enjoy Petrol ride?

Within his budget of "not-top line diesel" variant, he can get a top of the line variant of Petrol sedan (not sure about verna top variant which is costlier).

Reg Airbags also, see we won't need it, probably will never need it (pray). But its like just in case___ . Like an Insurance, but better than Insurance as Insurance is not a preventive/precaution (still we all have insurance, right?) but Airbag is a precaution & a preventive measure, you know just in case__. & unlike insurance, the payout is not every year but one-off.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by djay99

8.75 lacs for SX with ABS is really cheap man. In bangalore it costs around 10 lacs. Now tell me do you think Verna CRDi SX with ABS is VFM if price tag is 10 lacs?

Its not even cheaper or VFM even if it's for 9 Lacs for the features it CAN offer at the maximum.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by RX135

@ImmortalZ, why don't you post correct data then, if Fiat's data is wrong? Just going on harping about how it is marketing stunt etc. doesn't help prospective buyer much, as much as blindly claiming that XYZ car is cheaper than other.

I told you - my car will be going in for a 3M coating soon. I'll cross check FIAT's claimed numbers with their CRM and post any info I get. Do read before going mental at me.