15th December 2009, 18:00 | #16 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore
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| Hi Nikhil, You have done the indepth study, isn't it ? I salute you for your very pointed questions, that is a mark of a well read, well informed person. I am not having experience with all those car models you listed, hence i will not try to answer your questions. From your post, I learnt the following, You have been happy driving a M800 for last 9 years, you want to keep your next car for 5 years minimum, probably more. From a 2L car, you have "up"ed your risk to 8L, that is 4X times, that is amazing for a first time upgrader (I only upgraded from a 4.8L car to 10L car = 2X) my suggetion to you is to not to jump to conclusions based on the recommendations here, but actually you should talk to people face to face who owned the cars and collect as many inputs as possible first hand, then you will be able to come to a well informed decision. Generally US companies target shorter product life cycles and change strategies/platforms very offen. hence some times the perviously sold products are hard to support or expensive to support. European Companies develop performance cars, very rugged and full of gadets. they would be expensive as well, European car companies have not yet well understood the need for post sale support in India. Japanese Companies (Toyota, Honda) and thier half cousins (Maruti Suzuki and Hindustan Motors) offer good products, most of the time VALUE for Money (not cheap except Maruti), Reasonably good after sales servcie support, lower cost of maintenance and consistant realibility / quality. Koreans always try to either follow the japs or be one leg up. But they can not command premium still like japs. I10/I20/Verna are great cars from Hyundai, Matiz is still running even though the company Daewoo is closed. I would suggest you to have test drives and filter and arrive at one or two choices. Sorry for the long post, all the best with your car hunting. Last edited by StarVegabond : 15th December 2009 at 18:06. |
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15th December 2009, 18:40 | #17 |
BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chennai
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| Starvegabond: Most of your comments on companies based on their country of origin are very high level comments. Today companies are having localized strategies for products, marketing approach,pricing etc, and we will have to looks things from what is offered in India. |
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15th December 2009, 18:49 | #18 | ||
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Delhi
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About ground clearance, yes, at 160 mm, it is on the lower side, and one cannot be reckless, specially when fully loaded and on a bad road. But having said that, the ground clearances of Fiesta is 168mm and i20 is I think 165mm. So the difference is not all that big. SX4 ZXi is of course in a separate league in this regard. Quote:
However, I have to say that I do not know what happens beyond 140kmph - I have not gone beyond that speed and do not intend to in future. | ||
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15th December 2009, 19:52 | #19 |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bangalore
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| I would suggest a Manza for you, however A$$ may be an issue and you MAY face small niggles here and there. For peace of mind I think Jazz and i20 should fit yr requirements. |
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15th December 2009, 19:53 | #20 |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chennai
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| Why Fiesta? Hi Nikhil, More or less my requirements. And, I decided on the Fiesta SXi. Similar to you, my research was entirely based on TBHP. My needs, in no partcular order: 1. Myself, Wifey and 3 kids (14,10,6 Yrs old) - hence rear legroom space is more than adequate for the next 5-7 yrs. 2. Turning Radius/ Dimensions of car : Very Important. Though at home/office parking is not an issue for me with even a bigger car, needed an all-purpose vehicle which can be used for dropping kids at school, to picking up grocery on the way from roadside supermarket to squeezing thru malls/cineplexes, go to meet my clients etc - 100% self driven, hence ability to park almost at any place and still not draw too much of attention. GC/TR/Dimensions of Fiesta meets those needs perfectly. 3. Interiors more important than exterior looks: Plush Interiors (in line with 8L and not any Merc/BMW) a must. In case, somewhere it falls short by a small margin, can be addressed with aftermarket accessories. 4. Overall Fit & Finish - important becos it speaks of build quality & attention to detail. My appx 7 yr old Ikon - no rattles/creaking noises whatsoever. 5. Frills like Blue&Me/On steering controls- Not a deal clincher, since most of the times kids will have a say on that, a remote will do the job. If required, can be fitted separately. 6. City/Highway : for me it will be 70/30 - hence overall FE of 11-12 is fine with me with 800-1000Km/mth running. Plus in-City driveability factor should be good considering 80% it will be in 2nd/3rd gear. 7. After Sales Service - Have been driving an Ikon since 2003 - no issues faced so far except the A/c evaporator coil & one injector being replaced this year - total bill including labor - appx 10K..highest so far in appx 6.5yrs of ownersip. Absolutely no service related issues. In case you do not expect that the car will be washed/cleaned perfectly everytime you visit the service center or be treated like a royalty or dedicated service personnel etc etc, the main job of looking after/taking care your vehicle will be done. Basically, keep the expectation low and it will be met. Have not faced a situation where I have been taken for a ride with false spare parts etc. Further, promises regarding timeliness made have been kept, give or take a couple of hrs - not days. 8. Total 4 yrs warranty including EW for appx 9K -examples - a) spilled some corrosive material on the front passenger door panel and some rusting observed - replaced full door assembly under warranty. b) 3rd yr rear left door locking issues - replaced full rear left door assembly under warranty - and mind you no excuses of parts not avlbl - all these done within a couple of days. 9. Ford Manufacturing plant - almost between Chennai & Bangalore - hence availabity of parts should be super fast. 10. Safety - all your requirements avlbl in SXi. From your observations, it seems you only have an issue with Fiesta about A.S.S/Spare parts/High labor cost. Autocar India Mar 2009 issue did a comparison and found that for all Ford models there is only a marginal 2-3% difference, sometime cheaper compared to Honda/Fiat/Hyundai/Maruti in the respective segments. In fact, Ford is touting the same study in the form of a brochure titled "THE SUM OF THE PARTS". For Fiesta, taking into account regular Service Parts (like air/oil filter, wiper blades etc), Mechanical parts (like a/c evaporator coil, radiator hose set, clutch plate etc), Accident Repair parts (like front bumper, wheel rim, front fender, radiator, side mirrors etc), the study shows Fiesta Petrol total cost of spare parts as a %age of car price : 9.80 whereas Honda City it is 10.01 and Hyundai Verna as 7.13. This brochure lists down the price of each of these parts (26 parts in total) for Fiesta/City/Verna. All other aspects remaining the same, if I am looking for peace of mind, a 10-20% higher maintenance cost is fine with me. Mind you, I have not done a TD of a single car by driving myself (have sat on the rear though on SXi/S)...gone entirely by TBHP ownership reviews. Booked Silver SXi on 8th Dec - am told vehicle will arrive tomm - dont know why you have to wait for Silver for a month. Good luck on your next car. |
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15th December 2009, 20:07 | #21 |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chennai
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| Why not Manza/Linea? Manza - still to prove itself - good VFM but some compromises required. Linea - Killer Looks but F/T.A.S.S not upto the mark - take any Linea thread here. All Hatchbacks - No Offence meant - Not a particular fan for this design - personal opinion. Last edited by sanjayc : 15th December 2009 at 20:08. |
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15th December 2009, 20:14 | #22 |
BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Bangalore.
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| i think the ford 1.6 Sxi is the right one for you. Also its your first choice. Manza, as Sanjay is pointing, still has a long way to go before it makes a place of itself in the markets I see loads of Fiesta these days. Today i was out on a long drive to meet a client. I was simply blown by the Fiestas on the highway. Great Going ! @Skywalker, Congrats ! i see you are a senior now :-) Last edited by nandans2005 : 15th December 2009 at 20:29. |
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15th December 2009, 20:37 | #23 |
BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chennai
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| +1..There you go. Things going for FORD: a. Was the only US major automaker not bankrupt like GM/Chrysler and no TARP money for them b. With the launch of FIGO, will become a volume player - hence future survivality should not be a concern. c. Mostly localized parts d. FORD has been a master of re-cycling the same model with slight variants - be it Ikon or Fiesta. e. Fiesta price point - 1.5L above Manza & 1.5L below City - enough borderline takers for that f. First 4 years of A.S.S. - zero worry with 3rd/4th year Extended warranty+Insurance - labor cost may be 500-1000 bucks more than others - so? This will get offset by lesser visits to A.S.S;-} g. In Chennai, am seeing the same 2 Ford dealers at least from 2003 onwards - unlinke for HM/Tata A.S.S. who keep jumping ship from one to another h. In the metros, max 2 Ford A.S.S - not fully saturated - thus more business - more chances of survival - less worry - though service may get delayed a wee bit i. Americans are sticklers as far as checklists go (though it is another matter if it makes practical sense or not)..hence the A.S.S are kept on their toes - example being - while deciding on my Fiesta purchase, was getting confused regarding this free insurance offer from FORD, as quoted in some Fiesta threads - called up toll free number of Ford and demanded to know what are the offers in Dec09 directly given by FORD company - was told by the cstr exec to get in touch with the dealer to get details - on telling that I already have but it seems dealers are not providing correct information - named the dealer (MPL) to them- within 30 mins I got a call from MPL sales manager and got clarifications on all doubts - free insurance offer from FORD is for corporate discount cases onyl and blah blah etc. Later on the MPL sales exec called me up and apologised in case I have felt that he was not able to satisfactorily answer all my questions. |
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15th December 2009, 20:58 | #24 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Los Angeles
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| By the looks of it, the general inclination is more towards Fiesta, I don't want to confuse you, just giving my opinion. Why not consider the Dzire top variant, i.e if you are ok with the unbelievably ugly looks of the car? Having owned a Maruti before, you know fully well about its maintenance. |
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15th December 2009, 21:27 | #25 | ||
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore
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If you want to drop Manza, SX4 fits your role better as a capable highway car (and it can also do some offroading ) thanks Nandan! Last edited by SkyWalker : 15th December 2009 at 21:28. | ||
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15th December 2009, 23:44 | #26 |
Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Mumbai
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| The mood in this thread is overwhelmingly in favor of the Fiesta, but let me throw another hat into the ring. How about the Verna 1.6SX? The top end Petrol should be easily on the road under 8 Lacs, and even the top-end Diesel manual shud be available around 8 considering the year-end discounts flying around. I had a drive in it on the way from Karnal to Narkanda last Feb. and honestly it was one of the better highway drives I had for a long time. Lovely smooth engine, with lots of power and great handling. I have not driven the Fiesta myself to compare it to the Verna, but I do feel surprised that Verna has not yet been suggested by any members - yet. Not much idea about maintenance or F.E. - it was the car borrowed by my friend from his cousin |
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16th December 2009, 08:28 | #27 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore
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Verna petrol is no competition for the Fiesta - bet it power, FE or Handling. Diesel has good power - but calling it has great handling is over the top. Its probably at the bottom end in handling of Sedans in that range (SX4,Fiesta). |
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16th December 2009, 11:12 | #28 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bangalore
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I felt the same when I was looking for an upgrade 4 months back. Many of your requirements were same as mine, hence thought of sharing my thought process. I evaluated the following vehicles
Perceived poor mileage, rattles, A-Pillar blindspot, poor visibilty while reversing, driveability in city etc. were concern, but I realized that there is no perfect vehicle and took a chance. I own it for last 4 months. Below are my updates on those.
All the best for your new vehicle and happy motoring. | |
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16th December 2009, 14:44 | #29 | |||
Newbie Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bangalore
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The M800 I bought is a 2nd hand (from a relative) which I bought around 4 years ago. I never felt the need for a car - company bus for office commute, and auto / bus for local commute. And I never had to worry about parking space wherever I went. However, the birth of my daughter changed the equation, and a car became a necessity. The M800 was perfect for city driving. Now that my child has grown from a baby, I need a bigger car capable of weekend excursions. The M800 lacks the features for this, especially on the safety aspect. This makes me look for a fully-loaded car (sedan or hatchback did not matter to me). Since I'm planning to keep the car for min 5 years, I guess it's worth paying 8L one-time and getting a good car, rather than buying a bigger hatch now, and then 3-4 years down the line, upgrading again to a bigger car. Quote:
Sorry about the 5th seat-belt - I was mistaken based on the photographs in the brochure. I went to the showroom again today and took a test drive. The seat belt was there. The short test drive all-in-all was good. The space, interior colour everything appealed to me (and my colleague). The overall feeling was more of a sedan than a hatchback. The power was sufficient for 3 people for a sedate driving, but nowhere as the SX4. The AC was fantastic, and the music system sounded really good as compared to the one on the SX4. The all-round view was good, and was quite a cinch to drive (turning, reversing, braking etc). However, on rough roads (the stage before tarring), I could feel the road noise filter into the car, and the rough road could be felt. But I must add that I'm not the best judge at these things since the only other car I've driven extensively is the M800. Perhaps you can give some inputs here. There were no humps around, so could not see for myself. However, I think I can take it for a fact that there will be problems with humps (the Bangalore special variety) seeing the feedback on tbhp. I was checking the dimensions, and frankly, it's in the league of City and Manza (except length). Don't believe me? Here are the stats: Width Wheelbase Jazz: 1695mm 2500mm ANHC: 1695mm 2550mm Manza: 1703mm 2520mm Fiesta: 1686mm 2486mm SX4: 1735mm 2500mm Ritz: 1680mm 2360mm Width-wise, ANHC and the Jazz have the same width, and the difference between the Manza is just 0.8cm (the width of my little finger). Wheelbase of ANHC and Jazz is the same, and the Jazz has a slightly longer wheelbase as compared to Fiesta, so it was quite a surprise!! It's actually a sedan without separate boot. Quote:
The only problem now is that only colour available is white - the other colours are all sold-out. I'm not very much in favour of white for obvious reasons. So after all the great feedback from you guys, I've reduced the shortlist to Fiesta, Jazz and SX4. | |||
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16th December 2009, 18:39 | #30 | ||
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Delhi
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If you keep the rpm level above 2000, you won't feel it is underpowered. This means, for overtaking etc, you will often have to downshift and accelerate. Most of my highway trips have been with five passangers and boot full of luggage and AC running all the time, and I have never felt any need for more power (ok, not completely correct -- in our first long drive, when I was yet to get the hang of it, I felt it lacks torque, but then I was trying to drive it like my other car - once I made that adjustment, it was all fine). SX4 is the other car I had looked at when buying mine. And it was a difficult decision for us. The specifications say it has more power and torque (which I think is the more important figure) -- what you have to decide is how much of that extra are you going to use. By the way, I have also taken the car to Chail (in HP), where there is a Kali temple on top of a hill, and the climb is very steep. The car did fine there too. Quote:
As for roughness, the suspension is on the stiff side, so if you are on a rough road at slow to moderate speeds, you will feel those bumps. But as speed goes up, the suspension behaves much better, and you don't feel bumps at all. Back seat comfort is something you should look at. They are a bit more upright than a typical sedan. Some people may like this, for some others, the low flung seats may be better. So far I have had three visits to the workshop - two services, and one visit this week for a precautionary underbody check before an upcoming one-week trip. My experience at the workshop has been top class. But this is very dealer/city specific -- so you should find out about the dealers in your city and their service. A couple of owners have reported back problems after using the driver's seat , which they've taken care of by using cushions. But I have not had any issues in that regard. And on occasions, I have driven for 10 hours or so (with toilet/tea/lunch breaks). Again this is specific to the shape/size/condition of an individual, so you'd be the best judge. I do not know whether FE is a consideration for you or not. If it is, you can see my FE figures till about a month back here. Since that post, I have driven solely in the city, and getting FE of about 14.5/15. Also the engine feels more responsive now than earlier. If you need any more specific feedback, I would be happy to give. All in all, I think the three you have shortlisted are all very good cars. They all have their own pluses and minuses. Ultimately it depends on your exact requirements. Gather more info, take more test drives and decide. Wish you all the best in your search, buying and ownership. | ||
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