[sachinj12]

This is just turning out to be more like the pro honda vs anti honda thread.
Maruti loyalist vs Tata loyalist. Keep dishing out guys.

[akhilesh51]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

4) Would still give Dzire an edge here. Its based on a hatch that was designed keeping in mind a wider market base and different markets.

6) Again refer to Ponit 1. K12M is modern, much lighter. The A-star unit weight in at 47 kg dry. So K12M is lighter and is a livelier unit than Tata. K12M is one of the best motor below 1.5 ltr units offered in our country.

7) Keep nano aside. Its not a full fledged test and was done after certain modifications were done in the body.
I would give Manza equal safety if Vista undergoes Euro NCAP test.

4) This is not a comparison between Vista and Swift. Please don't relate these vehicles in light of their hatch counterparts. A lot has been lost when building a sedan from a hatchback design.

6) I am not too sure Dzire has K12 engine. I may be wrong here, though!

7) I know Nano is not in the same league and comparison is pointless but so is comparing these two vehicles on the basis of Vista and Swift.

Originally Posted by sanjubaba

Can you elaborate this please? Any links or basis for this?

--Sanju

Some threads on this forum itself have quoted senior management from Maruti admitting that Dzire production could not be brought to full throttle due to shortage of engine parts supply.

Any case 6+ months of waiting is history. Since Manza launch, most dealerships now quote a maximum of 2 months waiting. Infact, some dealerships actually have Dzire in stock for ready supply. Can this be attributed to Manza effect.

Originally Posted by rjalihal

Once a Tata, always a Tata. No offence.

That leaves no point for discussion now, Does it ??? Tata is Tata. Bad. No sorry, Pathetic and would stay like that no matter how hard they try. Right.

Actually, Government should pass a law banning Tata altogether and show mercy on Indian public. I mean how can Government be so blind and even allow a company with such a shoddy standards be even passed fit to manufacture vehicles.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by rjalihal

I would rate Dzire as a more superior car. Tata cars build quality is questionable. Maruti has a better name for itself and the car is of superior quality. However, after i searched for Manza online, i was shocked to see the features it comes with! I wouldnt be surprised if the climatronic A/C switch or the electric boot lever come off within a few months of driving! Once a Tata, always a Tata. No offence.

Reminds me of an ostrich.

[vista_qjd]

@aaggoswami and @dushmish, why dont both of you go to a tata showroom and take a drive in the manza and then write about it. Seeing and driving is believing. And i am sure that you would swallow your pride and write otherwise.
And also: Swift = Claustrophobia, Vista = airy/fresh/spacious and to top it all, its 50K cheaper. Think outside the box - think beyond Maruti and realize what you have been missing.

[sachinj12]

Originally Posted by vista_qjd

. And i am sure that you would swallow your pride and write otherwise.

That was really uncalled for. Please do read dushmish's travelouge to know how the car has fared under testing conditions.

[anmol2k4]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

The only data I have right now is that the Swift body was tested in EuroNCAP.
Vista was not tested here.
Swift did use 6 airbags, but the body shell was found tough enough.
Vista with or without airbags, is not having any EuroNCAP score.

Next, I read in ACI that Vista body shell was to be modified to score good in EuroNCAP.
So cant say that Manza is equal to Dzire.

Can you put down some data about Dzire being more unsafe than Manza ? Any crash test results by an Internationally accalimed body like EuroNCAP ? Crash test results for Vista would do.

And my feelings and thoughts are relative to me, not others.

And for that 5 star ratings, GP used more than 2 airbags. I am not asking others to swallow down my thoughts.
Also, for me, beyond an extent, I have to be my own expert when it comes to making decision.

Is the Swift sold in Europe identical to the one sold in India ? It probably is not. Is EuroNCAP test a regulatory requirement in India ? It is not. So, the only reason Tata tested Vista for EuroNCAP, would be due to the prospective launch of IndicaEV in Scandinavian and UK market.

My point is that both Suzuki and Tata sell beefed vehicles in Europe therefore calling just one as "modified" is ridiculous.

Also I remember many Suzuki fans calling 800 as a safer car because it is heavier and yet when it comes to Dzire vs Manza, they are calling the lighter sedan as safer even when neither of the sedans have been tested for EuroNCAP rating. Also is it wise to base opinion on Vista's crash test result when the information is not available from reliable sources like EuroNCAP itself or the
car maker ?

So in the present scenario when we don't have enough information about the vehicle's crash test result, I will base my opinion on the the vehicles design characteristics.

Vista and Manza are safer. Because both are having egg shell design compared to less safer boxy design of Swift/Dzire. And eggshell design is considered the safest design for any vehicles which have to survive under severe stress. Case in point :- Space Shuttle,Soyuz,Buran, Space Re-entry vehicles, Rockets / Missiles, Aircrafts and Cars. And going by the logic of 800 fans who called it safer in comparison with Nano, Manza and Vista should also be considered safer as both are bulgier.

p.s. In the Tata's Hall in autoexpo I remember that the display screen behind the three Arias had various Tata Motors videos running in a loop and I remember it also had the video of Vista's crash test and from what I saw, I think it did very well.

@SCH,

Manza is a much better sedan while Dzire is an unDzirable compromise in comparison.

[deepclutch]

Originally Posted by akhilesh51

That leaves no point for discussion now, Does it ??? Tata is Tata. Bad. No sorry, Pathetic and would stay like that no matter how hard they try. Right.

Actually, Government should pass a law banning Tata altogether and show mercy on Indian public. I mean how can Government be so blind and even allow a company with such a shoddy standards be even passed fit to manufacture vehicles.

Being a Tata car owner ,I will not deny these as outright biased comments.these type of comments come when many a Car owners(Count in thousands) gets totally frustrated with the Quality of the Car(Agreed ,Quality did improved) , possible chance of getting a lemon(No two cars similar in quality),After Sales Service Issues etc.When Counted in Specifications ,these car may be a winner.but there are things which are to be proved! real ownership experiences- Frankly!
PS: My point is Not in particular to Manza.

[sivadas]

This thread calls for a Poll!! And my vote would be for Manza.

From Indigo era, Tata has come a long way; they have designed a proper sedan in Manza whereas Dzire is still a boot attached hatch.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by akhilesh51

If the competitor was Honda City, I would completely agree with you but you are comparing Manza to DZire for god sake. It ain't no benchmark of quality either. And how can we judge Manza on the basis of old Indigo.

I'm sure you'll agree that buying a car isn't everything. Just leave the car to the service at A.S.S, you'll understand what I mean.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by aargee

I'm sure you'll agree that buying a car isn't everything. Just leave the car to the service at A.S.S, you'll understand what I mean.

Ostriches are fast becoming my favourite birds.

Jokes apart, you might consider going to the service station again, the Tata-Fiat team is trying hard to change this perception. They surely goofed up earlier but they are definitely trying to make amends.

[vinaydas]

resale is another major factor imo.
tata's age very badly a car which is 1 or 2 year old will feel like its close to 5-6 years old.
the japs age very gracefully in this matter.
Regarding the looks of the vehicle.
almost every one agrees that if the Dzire was released before the swift then you might have felt the swift being awkward.
But the manza looks like it was designed by a bunch of dyslexic school kids.
The side view of the manza is horrible and the boot looks like it has been pasted on just for namesake.

The one and only advantage the Manza has over the Dzire is "space" and nothing else.
forget all the gizmos and stuff.


Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Abusive language and personal attacks – whether used directly or indirectly - are STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP. A decent communication protocol must be adhered to.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by vinaydas

...almost every one agrees that if the Dzire was released before the swift then you might have felt the swift being awkward.
But the manza looks like it was designed by a bunch of dyslexic school kids.

Come on man, I think you can be more objective than that. I remember in another thread you said that "a little criticism never hurt anybody" (this too was a Tata thread, don't remember which one though) and I totally agreed that constructive criticism is always helpful.

I am sorry to say, this post reeks of your having an inherent bias. I find the bit about dyslexic kids designing the car particularly offensive. You can simply say that you hate the Manza and liked the way the Dezire looks (totally fine with that, it's your personal opinion after all).

[WindRide]

Originally Posted by vinaydas

....
But the manza looks like it was designed by a bunch of dyslexic school kids.
.....

Completely uncalled for and sickening to see a reference made to a physical condition of the less-fortunate among us.
Please take back what you said.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Amartya

Jokes apart, you might consider going to the service station again, the Tata-Fiat team is trying hard to change this perception. They surely goofed up earlier but they are definitely trying to make amends.

Yes, they're trying "real hard"

[sachinj12]

@ aargee,

Those pictures made my day. ROFLMAO