[keyurshah]

As one of our fellow BHPian mentioned, Fiat lovers would recommend Fiat, Hyundai lovers would recommend Hyundai, Honda lovers would recommend Honda.

What you need to figure out is which amongst them fit your bill the best, in terms of space, boot, legroom, price, mileage, experience of other owners, A.S.S.

Perhaps you can make a excel sheet and then rate each parameter on a scale of 1 to 5 for each car. Then take a total and you have your answer!!

Hope this helps

[RX135]

@HammerHead, this is about the quote that you posted from GTO's thread. It is mostly seen that, the vehicle, which has had frontal impact, is more damaged than the one having rear impact. The reason is mainly crumple zone, which deforms more. Not necessarily build quality!

Having said that, Fiats are indeed well built and age very well. I own one, so I know that.

Regarding question asked by OP, I would suggest not to go for Punto since he is already worried about A/S/S as well as resale. Well, not until he is mentally prepared to take that risk.

[mkh]

Originally Posted by HammerHead

@ mkh

Regarding Hyundai build quality, I don't think it matches any European car. I'm not saying that Hyundai's are badly build but that's one difference between the Japs/Koreans and the Europeans.

This is from GTO's Punto test drive thread.I would think i10 is as good as i20 when it comes to build quality.

So you will certify that "Fiat Punto" does not worth considering if they did not turn up for a TD?

You will find more Fiat owners bringing out -Ve's then any other car owners There are hell lot of owners here trying to defend the brand they own then the specific car they own from that brand!!!

I had this question for long time now. Since you own a i20 though of asking it to you. Does i20 have engine guard?

I am not comparing build quality of punto and i20, and i think that build quality cannot ONLY be measured by what GTO mentioned. I am saying that i20 is not that bad in build quality as mentioned(like a tin can etc).Punto body build is surely a notch above the rest.
What about parts falling off and bad plastics? Also GTO gave HIS thought, cannot be taken as the absolute truth and reflect on the build quality of the ENTIRE car.
BTW with "bad build quality" if i10 almost sells equal to the alto, maybe thats what the customers are happy with!! I agree thats not the STRONGEST point of the car, but its not something that is a huge negative too.( enough to deter a potential buyer). I own an i10 and i will rate its build quality to be lower than a punto anyday and even maybe lower than a FIGO but better than a swift.

I say that buying a FIAT is a RISK, since they hardly care BEFORE selling the car, wonder what attitude they show up post sales. This is my experience and many of my friends who had NONE come to give them a TD for punto or linea. Does not reflect at all on the product quality.
How come the Punto sells 700-800 if its THAT great a buy? Only because of lack of proper support from the TATA dealers, if you give the SAME product to a maruti,hyundai or even FORD, it will sell MIN double. Product is great, in the hands of some incompetent people.

Only those who have access to a forum and are active on the net will post, there are many more who are suffering due to bad *** from FIAT. The numbers here do not reflect the real picture, it varies from city to city.

I do not own an i20, 2 of my close friends do, maybe you can post on the i20 ownership threads here.

[Mevtec]

My vote goes to ANHC.Its a fabulous car.I would suggest S MT.If you like the ICE go for the S MT.I consider the ICE the second best feature after the engine in ANHC.

From my limited experience I think iVTEC is more fun to drive than our 1.3 DDiS in the Swift.Many may claim handling advantage for Punto,but I feel DDiS/Multijet is not that exciting always.

ANHC is stable even at 130 km/Hr (maximum I have gone).But the way ANHC accelarated from 90km/hr to 130km/hr in fifth gear with a small squeeze of the gas pedal is amazing.But friends drive safe.

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by mkh

I am not comparing build quality of punto and i20, and i clearly said that build quality cannot ONLY be measured by what GTO mentioned. I am saying that i20 is not that bad in build quality as mentioned(like a tin can etc).Punto body build is surely a notch above the rest.
What about parts falling off and bad plastics? Also GTO gave HIS thought, cannot be taken as the absolute truth and reflect on the build quality of the ENTIRE car.
BTW with "bad build quality" if i10 almost sells equal to the alto, maybe thats what the customers are happy with!! I agree thats not the STRONGEST point of the car, but its not something that is a huge negative too.( enough to deter a potential buyer)

I say that buying a FIAT is a RISK, since they hardly care BEFORE selling the car, wonder what attitude they show up post sales. This is my experience and many of my friends who had NONE come to give them a TD for punto or linea. Does not reflect at all on the product quality.
How come the Punto sells 700-800 if its THAT great a buy? Only because of lack of proper support from the TATA dealers, if you give the SAME product to a maruti,hyundai or even FORD, it will sell MIN double. Product is great, in the hands of some incompetent people.

Only those who have access to a forum and are active on the net will post, there are many more who are suffering due to bad *** from FIAT. The numbers here do not reflect the real picture, it varies from city to city.

I do not own an i20, 2 of my close friends do, maybe you can post on the i20 ownership threads here.

Oh I though you own i20 that's the reason you confidently talked about its build quality. Never mind will ask that question to some one who owns one.

When I say build quality I mean more of the structural rigidity and less of stuff made up of plastic and rubber. As far as "GTO's thought" is concerned, I know for sure that its not something which came out of his mind, its something he experienced!! Agreed, that small incident cannot prove the build quality.

How come the Punto sells 700-800 if its THAT great a buy?

I really don't know what to reply!! So you mean if Sales = High = Great Product? So Alto is the greatest car we ever had???

[clevermax]

If I have 10L to spend on a car, I won't go for any of the three cars that you've mentioned in the poll. I am not suggesting any car. I'd say go with what your heart says!

Originally Posted by mkh

How come the Punto sells 700-800 if its THAT great a buy?

I figure that 'Great Buy' for you means something which sells in great numbers. But not for all.

[mkh]

Originally Posted by HammerHead

Oh I though you own i20 that's the reason you confidently talked about its build quality. Never mind will ask that question to some one who owns one.

When I say build quality I mean more of the structural rigidity and less of stuff made up of plastic and rubber. As far as "GTO's thought" is concerned, I know for sure that its not something which came out of his mind, its something he experienced!! Agreed, that small incident cannot prove the build quality.


I really don't know what to reply!! So you mean if Sales = High = Great Product? So Alto is the greatest car we ever had???

Yep- in the SEGMENT that alto rules- none better ever! High sales may not always mean the best but CONSISTENTLY low sales clearly means that something is really wrong( even with a good product).
Sales high= great product +great marketing+great support to customers(dealer network, spares avail, ***)
for FIAT last two are low(lowest that any manufacturer has who is competing in the sub 10 lacs segment).I rest my case, since you are happy with FIAT, great.I wish to buy a FIAT car too, just cant take the risk, maybe will one day!

[Silverfire]

Originally Posted by mkh

I am not comparing build quality of punto and i20, and i think that build quality cannot ONLY be measured by what GTO mentioned. I am saying that i20 is not that bad in build quality as mentioned(like a tin can etc).Punto body build is surely a notch above the rest.
What about parts falling off and bad plastics? Also GTO gave HIS thought, cannot be taken as the absolute truth and reflect on the build quality of the ENTIRE car.
BTW with "bad build quality" if i10 almost sells equal to the alto, maybe thats what the customers are happy with!! I agree thats not the STRONGEST point of the car, but its not something that is a huge negative too.( enough to deter a potential buyer). I own an i10 and i will rate its build quality to be lower than a punto anyday and even maybe lower than a FIGO but better than a swift.

When i said that the Hyundai i20 has a tin can like body i meant that the exterior shell is quite flimsy.

My Dad has an i10 and I once had the misfortune to sniff up a trucks backside The speed was just 10 kmph and i got out expecting a scratch on the bonnet.... instead the whole bonnet had disfigured & there was a huge gaping hole/gash

Also the bumpers etc are very thin. If you check the back bumpers you can stetch/move them with 1 finger.

With the Punto i felt that the the thickness of the shell was twice that of the Hyundai. It felt very very solid.

Originally Posted by HammerHead

If I were you, I would go in for Linea Emotion Pk (D).

1. Fun of driving : Linea is for sure fun to drive and handles very well.
2. Prestige value : In India Sedan = Prestige. Park a Linea next to any sub 10Lakh sedan and see the difference for you self.
3. Resale Value: It may not fetch you same amount as a Honda during resale, but a diesel + lesser initial cost will surely compensate it to some extent.

These are purely my thoughts, it may differ person to person. By the way I would also suggest you to wait till Linea T-Jet is launched.

Is the Linea MJD faster than the Punto MJD ?

[car-dent]

Originally Posted by Silverfire

The Jazz has great space, the fastest engine i have driven of all the hatches & a nice premium feel about it.
Available for 7.7 OTR through CSDwith the active package being offered for 10k more.
The City is available through CSD for 8.8 OTR for the E MT version.

these are exactly the three cars i am looking at.. and i too have to buy through CSD. i had almost bought jazz but just stoped at the last moment.
the OTR cost of jazz in gurgaon thru csd is something Around 6.7 lakhs. and Honda City S-MT is approx 8.1 lakhs.
i am impressed by the jazz but for its poor sales. want the snob value of city (seems bit off budget) and want the features and diesel economy of i20.
if i have to buy i20 from outside market , i would prefer to spend 70 k more and buy city SMT from the CSD.
BTW i20 is expected to be available through CSD in first week of may.
i am too confused. will make a final decision in june.

[Silverfire]

Originally Posted by car-dent

these are exactly the three cars i am looking at.. and i too have to buy through CSD. i had almost bought jazz but just stoped at the last moment.
the OTR cost of jazz in gurgaon thru csd is something Around 6.7 lakhs. and Honda City S-MT is approx 8.1 lakhs.
i am impressed by the jazz but for its poor sales. want the snob value of city (seems bit off budget) and want the features and diesel economy of i20.
if i have to buy i20 from outside market , i would prefer to spend 70 k more and buy city SMT from the CSD.
BTW i20 is expected to be available through CSD in first week of may.
i am too confused. will make a final decision in june.

Wow, thats a huge price difference between Pune & Gurgaon !
The S MT costs 9.3 through CSD in Pune

The Hyundai fellows in Pune said don't expect the i20 to come to the CSD as even i10 is not available yet


I am worried that by stretching the budget to the max and buying the City, leaves you with very little cash to modify it or Pay for repairs etc if some unfortunate incident happens with the car.

[amulu10]

Originally Posted by mkh

I am not comparing build quality of punto and i20, and i think that build quality cannot ONLY be measured by what GTO mentioned. I am saying that i20 is not that bad in build quality as mentioned(like a tin can etc).Punto body build is surely a notch above the rest.
What about parts falling off and bad plastics? Also GTO gave HIS thought, cannot be taken as the absolute truth and reflect on the build quality of the ENTIRE car.
BTW with "bad build quality" if i10 almost sells equal to the alto, maybe thats what the customers are happy with!! I agree thats not the STRONGEST point of the car, but its not something that is a huge negative too.( enough to deter a potential buyer). I own an i10 and i will rate its build quality to be lower than a punto anyday and even maybe lower than a FIGO but better than a swift.

I say that buying a FIAT is a RISK, since they hardly care BEFORE selling the car, wonder what attitude they show up post sales. This is my experience and many of my friends who had NONE come to give them a TD for punto or linea. Does not reflect at all on the product quality.
How come the Punto sells 700-800 if its THAT great a buy? Only because of lack of proper support from the TATA dealers, if you give the SAME product to a maruti,hyundai or even FORD, it will sell MIN double. Product is great, in the hands of some incompetent people.

Only those who have access to a forum and are active on the net will post, there are many more who are suffering due to bad *** from FIAT. The numbers here do not reflect the real picture, it varies from city to city.

I do not own an i20, 2 of my close friends do, maybe you can post on the i20 ownership threads here.

bro i dont understand why every one keeps talking about punto selling 700-800 FYI it sold 956 and sold around 1400 in the previous months!
10 months since its launched, the sales have dipped below 1000 only once ,i.e the last month ( it was 500 something in December due to plant shutdown for annual maintenance )

Originally Posted by Silverfire

Hullo BHPians,

My journey with Cars started 10 years ago since when i have been reading at least 2 car magazines every month.
As a self confessed passionate automobile enthusiast Team-Bhp was a dream come true when i discovered it some 4 years ago.
And now finally the time has come when i have finished my MBA and it is time to buy a car for myself...
my very first 4-wheeler... my own baby !!

When i started off my criteria for buying a car was:

1. Fun of driving : The car has to have a great engine & good handling characteristics
2. Prestige value : The car should be aspirational. viz its something you desire to buy & envy if your neighbor has it, rather than a car that is sensible & logical but doesn't have the wow factor.
3. Resale Value: The car should hold its value in the used car market so you can upgrade with a time frame of around 4 years in mind.

With these in mind, i started off my hunt in the hatchback segment. Since my budget initially was around 6 lakh INR and the car was to be used in heavy mumbai traffic a hatchback seemed a logical choice.

With the Premium criteria in mind i focussed my attention on the B+ segment, where i saw the following option:

1)great engine-honda city, handling- punto
2)this is subjective ,for some the HONDA brand means premium! for me the awe and satisfaction i get when people look at my punto, the envy of my neighbour looking at my car is more than enough to offset the premium of honda brand( punto selling at 1000 per month is not a bad thing)
Punto might not be logical or sensible to some, but it does have that wow factor! especially since not many puntos are on road !
so prestige - HONDA
wow factor-punto/linea
3)resale value is no brainer! get a honda city, Jazz will probably depreciate a lot since there will be a price/feature correction somewhere down the line . The city's got the best resale value among the sub 10 lakh sedans in india

so looking at your requirements , i say if u have the moolah go for the Honda city! ( better resale and A S S tilting the scales to its side)

[car-dent]

Originally Posted by Silverfire

Wow, thats a huge price difference between Pune & Gurgaon !
The S MT costs 9.3 through CSD in Pune

The Hyundai fellows in Pune said don't expect the i20 to come to the CSD as even i10 is not available yet


I am worried that by stretching the budget to the max and buying the City, leaves you with very little cash to modify it or Pay for repairs etc if some unfortunate incident happens with the car.

ya, thats what i was wondering, thats a whopping 1.20 lakhs difference. ANHC SMT in normal market in Delhi is something 8.8 L(MY BIL bought it last month).
i had checked with hyundai customer care, they sent me an email that i20 will be available in may for sure. dont know about pune though.
getting i20 crdi asta for 7.5L and ANHC SMT for 8.2L, really a tough decision.

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by Silverfire

Is the Linea MJD faster than the Punto MJD ?

To be frank I haven't driven Linea MJD on highway to comment on "fastness" I have driven Linea FIRE and Punto FIRE and just a typical TD of both MJD's.

Looking at the specs. I would think that Linea MJD won't be as "sluggish" as Punto MJD. Here are the specs for your reference.

Linea
Max. Power (ps/rpm) 93 @ 4000
Max. Torque (Nm/rpm) 209 @ 2000

Punto
Max. Power (ps/rpm) 76 @ 4000
Max. Torque (Nm/rpm) 197 @ 1750

Fast for me may be sluggish for you!!! Why don't you test drive Linea MJD? I would say it worth a TD

By the way among the three cars you listed, my vote is for Honda City. It has everything that one would "normally" wish in a sedan. Reliability, Snob Value, Resale value, Effortless to drive and so on.

Originally Posted by mkh

Yep- in the SEGMENT that alto rules- none better ever! High sales may not always mean the best but CONSISTENTLY low sales clearly means that something is really wrong( even with a good product).
Sales high= great product +great marketing+great support to customers(dealer network, spares avail, ***)
for FIAT last two are low(lowest that any manufacturer has who is competing in the sub 10 lacs segment).I rest my case, since you are happy with FIAT, great.I wish to buy a FIAT car too, just cant take the risk, maybe will one day!

I would love to know what you mean by "Great Product".

FYI, I never said I'm happy or sad with FIAT, but yeah I'm happy with Punto. I'm not a guy who goes by the "Brand" but by specific product from a brand!! I'm looking forward to own a Maruti Car, but till now they are unsuccessful fulfilling my requirements!!

Till the time VW launches Polo 1.6 with pricing neck to neck with Punto 1.4, its worth taking the risk that you are talking about.

[clevermax]

HammerHead: +1
Linea MJD is definitely not sluggish compared to Punto MJD - We had a road trip with these two cars with 4 people each, and we experienced it.

[mkh]

Originally Posted by clevermax

I figure that 'Great Buy' for you means something which sells in great numbers. But not for all.

You figured out wrong, a great buy surely caters to the popular demand and what most people want, not necessarily the reverse. Does not matter what it means etc, finally what people like is what sells the most. A great buy is one which YOU like and suits your need, the rest does not matter.

Originally Posted by HammerHead

I would love to know what you mean by "Great Product".

FYI, I never said I'm happy or sad with FIAT, but yeah I'm happy with Punto. I'm not a guy who goes by the "Brand" but by specific product from a brand!! I'm looking forward to own a Maruti Car, but till now they are unsuccessful fulfilling my requirements!!

Till the time VW launches Polo 1.6 with pricing neck to neck with Punto 1.4, its worth taking the risk that you are talking about.

Does it really matter what i mean by a great product? I think this discussion has gone too long and its a waste to go on and on. I simply feel that a product offering needs to be backed by adequate support to have customers trust the brand. There are cases aplenty of good/great products not making it with customers because of bad positioning etc etc. None is "brand loyal"- do they pay me for using a hyundai/fiat/maruti etc? NO- so i also hardly care.
All i want is what a "normal" customer wants, decent car with adequate support in sales and service, thats all. This is what makes the OVERALL package great and hence sells more, simple. Obviously we all look for what suits our need and as mentioned above, what is best is what fits our need, the rest does not matter.
Lets carry on with the main topic of this thread if we have any value to add, i have nothing more to say.