[maheshramaling]

Hi all,

This is my first post here as a new thread. Hope I am not breaching any rule here.

I am actually in a dilemma - thought of seeking advice from fellow BHP'ians. Have been trying to buy a 2nd car since my MUV (Innova) has already done 55K Kms since I picked up in Aug '07 and my need is clear;

1) Diesel - looking at the petrol price scene & good engines coming in diesel too
2) MT - I hate AT's since i think they take away the pleasure & control of the car (AT heads - no offense. This is just my opinion)
3) Sedan which has good legroom & boot space - since I already have a MUV i.e., Innova - which is amazing. My family loves it - so I will retain it by doing some pampering like new tyres, clutches, etc.,.

I first ventured into - Superb or Volvo - but dropped them since Superb did not have a Diesel MT option & Volvo S40 is still not launched in India (then why the hell they post in the India web page about S40 & S60). Even thought about 3 series but dropped it since it was not in line with the price & what we get. (I agree that BMW tag is something which demands something premium - but can't throw away money for what we get in return).

Since - I had no other choice (i hate why guys can't have a diesel MT in all cars!!) Finally - I was forced to look a level lower & researched Laura, Altis Diesel, Cruze, Linea & Optra Magnum.

Of this - as I researched & test drove - Cruze & Optra dropped off simply because of their low resale value & to be honest - I didn't like the looks. Linea looked great & posture of the car was good - but dropped off the list due to it's hard steering & clutch. As well the TATA after sales service was a put off.

At the end - I am left with 2; Laura Elegance 2.0 TDI CR MT & Corolla Altis Diesel HG.

So here is my comparison of these two (only compared the ones which are significantly different from other);

Laura Elegance 2.0 CR TDI Corolla Altis Diesel HG Dimension (Length x width x height) 4569 x 1769 x 1485 mm 4540 x 1760 x 1480 mm Displacement 1968 1364 Transmission 5 Speed MT 6 Speed MT Boot Space 560 liters 475 liters Max Power 110 bhp @ 4200 rpm 88.4 PS @ 3800 rpm Max Torque 250 Nm 205 Nm Mileage (as per Sales folks) 12 to 14 in City 18 to 23 in City Ground Clearance 164 mm 175 mm Tyres 205/ 55 R 16 195/65 R15 Breaks All Discs but only front is ventilated (Inner cooling) All Ventilated Discs Antenna Normal Printed Antenna Audio Single CD with 8 speakers 6 CD changer with 6 speakers Seat Material Leather Fabric On Road Price 1910966 (Includes Insurance, Road Tax, Extended Warranty & Drive Assure) 1595913 (Includes Insurance, Road Tax & Smiles) Discount/ Offer 62167 (Insurance free, Corporate Discount) + Sun Flim + Teflon Coating + double (Fabric & Rubber) mats + mud flaps + IND registration plate) Nil (can give reverse parking sensor free) Net Price 1845489 (by not taking extended warranty) 1595913 Price Difference `+249576 `-249576

There are few other differences which crop up with Laura are resale value, after sales service issues (though i haven't heard recently - hope they are improving). But this car is fully loaded in all aspects & both interiors & exteriors look extremely rich.

When it comes to Toyota - I can vouch their service (being a customer for last 3+ yrs) & resale value is very good. But the car lacks presence in front of Laura on road. 2nd it lacks power technically (88.4 PS Vs 110 PS). However - i didn't felt that while I did a test drive up to 120 kmph. But couldn't go beyond since Hosur road was all barricaded that day.

So - I am confused & need your suggestions. I would like to book the vehicle this week itself since both cars have a good 1 to 2 month waiting period for black color.

[Akshay1234]

Firstly I think you should take a TD of a Skoda with the DSG box. It will change your perception of automatics.

Secondly, between the 2 it has to be the Laura. You seem to enjoy driving (because you want a m/t since it gives more control) and the Laura is miles ahead of the Altis in terms of driving pleasure, whether its high speed stability or handling or power or build quality.

[.anshuman]

Altis Diesel is Spacious and has a great rear seat. The FE is great too but it comes with a 1.4 Diesel which just makes 90 hp with massive lag, mated to 6 speed MT means endless shifting up and down to stay in power band. Surely Toyota has a better reputation for longevity and maintenance cost also is expected to be low. Overall it's not focussed on driving pleasure, it better suited for Chauffeur driven/Family usage where driving pleasure is not an priority.

Laura MT CR 110 comes with the SOHC 110hp/250nm engine unlike the DSG version which gets the 140hp/320nm motor, but this does not mean it's a weak motor. The torque is well spread all throughout the rev range, it makes the peak torque from as low as 1500rpm and pulls all the way to redline. In gear acceleration (Along with Jetta which shares this engine) is something you will never see in any other car. Enough has been discussed about Ride and Handling finesse, easily most driver focussed car in the segment. Now comes with Skoda Shield which is extended warranty till 4 years/1,00,000kms. Downside is spares are expensive.

Also have a look at Chevy Cruze which comes with the blockbuster 150hp engine. Out on open roads this car is hoot to drive, with tall gearing, 320nm torque and super high speed stability this is just the right to hit the highways. Comes at a very good price with fancy gizmos you might like. Downside is the city driveability, more because of super tall gearing(won't take long getting used to).

I have not discussed ATs here as you have already struck off them. But Automatics are no longer uninvolving to drive, I own a Laura CR 140 DSG, i never found it lacking in driving experience. Cruze too comes with a nice 6 Speed AT, which is not as responsive as the DSG but is not bad at all. My Laura ownership thread.

[PlatzdaTurbo]

No-brainer IMHO. Laura all the way. Its just a better vehicle in most areas. Just make sure if the dealer in your vicinity is any good at all. If yes, then without second thoughts i would say you should go for the Laura. Much Much better car.
& yes as akshay stated, please TD the DSG Laura even if you have no plans on buying it. I am sure you will have stories to tell us. LOL.
Good luck!

[camchennai]

I would suggest to stick with Laura; it would be a better choice when compared with Altis. Altis with its 1.4 L engine is under powered and you would not be surprised to see an upgraded engine in Altis post Etios Diesel launch as both will share the same engine. Laura would be better on ride compared to Altis

Altis parts are not cheap either they are as expensive as Laura. And talking about A.S.S., I would say even Toyota A.S.S is going in to dog days, I have used 2 Toyota cars in the past 3 years and their service is becoming worse day by day.

Now, what is the discount you are getting for both cars?? I am sure there should be discounts for Altis, however not sure about Laura.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Firstly I think you should take a TD of a Skoda with the DSG box. It will change your perception of automatics.

Secondly, between the 2 it has to be the Laura. You seem to enjoy driving (because you want a m/t since it gives more control) and the Laura is miles ahead of the Altis in terms of driving pleasure, whether its high speed stability or handling or power or build quality.

Completely agree on this point. And refer to Anshuman's post for the positives of DSG.

If you want a car which communicates back to you, go for the Laura. And if your requirement is to have a commuter vehicle to move you from point A to B, Altis diesel is the option.

[noopster]

Laura DSG all the way! Check out .anshuman's ownership thread if you need more convincing. And that 140 BHP engine is a little monster. The DSG shifts just like a
manual so I doubt you will miss an MT. And the Toyota diesel, forgive me, is a boring car.

[GTO]

NONE!

The Altis D4D is too under-powered for guys like us, and the Laura MT is sold with a lower-spec diesel (unlike the 140 BHP DSG variant). Plus, the Laura isn't exactly a long term reliability champ.

My suggestion : Wait for the new Sonata before you decide; the Hyundai might well be worth it. I love their new designs, Hyundai has fantastic diesels and going by int'l reviews so far, the i45 is a sorted sedan. The launch shouldn't be more than a quarter or two away:

Link to SCOOP pic of i45 being tested

And yes, since the current Sonata Embera diesel is offered with a 6 speed manual, good chance of the new Sonata / i45 having a MT diesel too. Rumour mills insist that the i45 is going to be loaded to the gill with bells & whistles.

[AirWind]

Wait 2 Qtr's as GTO says or if you'll have to choose now, book the VW Vento. Eventhough a notch below, meets your requirement over the Laura/Jetta/Altis combine. Only issues is the endless waiting period... i45 might be launched by the time you get your Vento!

[Abhi_Automobile]

NONE!

The Altis D4D is too under-powered for guys like us, and the Laura MT is sold with a lower-spec diesel (unlike the 140 BHP DSG variant). Plus, the Laura isn't exactly a long term reliability champ.

I somewhat agree with GTO's comments. I don't think the Laura will keep breaking up and the situation is as bad as it is projected to be (no remark on anybody in specific). However, I think the very fact that so much negative has been said about this company makes you sit up and take notice. So, it takes away from the fun of owning an expensive car. Also, the Laura has been around for a while now, so it's not exactly a new model. Corolla, it was old the day it was launched. Just looks boring and somewhat dated.

If I were you, and were not in a hurry to wrap this up quickly, I would wait for the new JETTA. Its almost as big as the current Passat is quality all way around. The US spec model is said to be 'cheapened' a little (interiors) due to cost constraints. However, the Euro spec one is what we should get. However, this could be atleast 3 quarters away. To a lesser extent, you should also look forward to the i45. It has received rave reviews.

If you still intend to pick one of the two cars you have mentioned, it will certainly be the Laura. It is better in each and every aspect to comparison. Toyota isn't any premium brand either. Reliability? Even the M800 is reliable.

[shivir]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Firstly I think you should take a TD of a Skoda with the DSG box. It will change your perception of automatics.

Secondly, between the 2 it has to be the Laura. You seem to enjoy driving (because you want a m/t since it gives more control) and the Laura is miles ahead of the Altis in terms of driving pleasure, whether its high speed stability or handling or power or build quality.

+1 . Between the two it has to be the Laura - purely because the Altis D gets overtaken by most people on bicycles and also the occasional cow.

Yes with Skoda you are always stepping into unfamiliar territory. Also the great mystery around after sales - but from my experience and what I hear these guys are trying to get better. Waiting for the new Jetta wont be a bad idea either - but if you want to go now - it has to be the Laura.

[ajay_satpute]

Like GTO said, man... you gotto wait. There are too many cars to be launched this year. After a few quarters, you will have 3-4 more options to choose from probably.

However, if you really can not wait, here are my preferences in the current available choices:

1) Laura 2.0 DSG: Like many have said already and since I have driven this car for around 50 KMs or so, its a complete monster to drive. "Neck sapping" acceleration! The braking is as amazing as is the pickup. I stopped at a speed of 130 KMPH, as if the car was sucked underground. No screeching, no jerks, just amazing. Also, Skoda cars are very well built. Rear seat is cramped compared to the others cars and the A/C vent and the hump are irritating for the middle passenger. Only issue could be the A.S.S., but I dont think its too bad. My friend owns a Laura TSI since last 1+ year and has had no issues with the dealer or service.

2) Cruze AT: Frankly, I am surprised when you say you were put off by the looks of the Cruze. IMHO, its the best looking in this segment. Plus it has all the features under the Sun. Chevy service is something I can not comment on much and unfortunately, all those 3 years free maintenance offers are not applicable on the Cruze.

3) Altis: I have not driven the Altis D4D, but whatever I have read about it here on TBHP and other sites, is that its lethargic to drive. But, Toyota service and resale value are the best in this class, by far.

[maheshramaling]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Firstly I think you should take a TD of a Skoda with the DSG box. It will change your perception of automatics.

Secondly, between the 2 it has to be the Laura. You seem to enjoy driving (because you want a m/t since it gives more control) and the Laura is miles ahead of the Altis in terms of driving pleasure, whether its high speed stability or handling or power or build quality.

Thanks! I test drove both Laura & Superb AT - and quite didn't like it. So AT is out of the choices.

[maheshramaling]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Altis Diesel is Spacious and has a great rear seat. The FE is great too but it comes with a 1.4 Diesel which just makes 90 hp with massive lag, mated to 6 speed MT means endless shifting up and down to stay in power band. Surely Toyota has a better reputation for longevity and maintenance cost also is expected to be low. Overall it's not focussed on driving pleasure, it better suited for Chauffeur driven/Family usage where driving pleasure is not an priority.

Laura MT CR 110 comes with the SOHC 110hp/250nm engine unlike the DSG version which gets the 140hp/320nm motor, but this does not mean it's a weak motor. The torque is well spread all throughout the rev range, it makes the peak torque from as low as 1500rpm and pulls all the way to redline. In gear acceleration (Along with Jetta which shares this engine) is something you will never see in any other car. Enough has been discussed about Ride and Handling finesse, easily most driver focussed car in the segment. Now comes with Skoda Shield which is extended warranty till 4 years/1,00,000kms. Downside is spares are expensive.

Also have a look at Chevy Cruze which comes with the blockbuster 150hp engine. Out on open roads this car is hoot to drive, with tall gearing, 320nm torque and super high speed stability this is just the right to hit the highways. Comes at a very good price with fancy gizmos you might like. Downside is the city driveability, more because of super tall gearing(won't take long getting used to).

Yes - Cruze is loaded & a much powerful engine - but the looks, after sales service & resale value - made me strike it off the options.

I have not discussed ATs here as you have already struck off them. But Automatics are no longer uninvolving to drive, I own a Laura CR 140 DSG, i never found it lacking in driving experience. Cruze too comes with a nice 6 Speed AT, which is not as responsive as the DSG but is not bad at all. My Laura ownership thread.

As I mentioned earlier - I did a test drive the AT variants in both Laura & Superb - but didn't like it. Guess if I were look for another car in the next segment in next few years - I have no choice but to go the AT way :(. Till then - I will enjoy my MT's!!

Originally Posted by camchennai

I would suggest to stick with Laura; it would be a better choice when compared with Altis. Altis with its 1.4 L engine is under powered and you would not be surprised to see an upgraded engine in Altis post Etios Diesel launch as both will share the same engine. Laura would be better on ride compared to Altis

I spoke to a senior technician in Toyota & he seems to say & of the opinion that Etios will not come with 1.4L Engine & the point he makes it; is the weight of Etios is under a ton - so a 1.4 L engine will make it fly literally. So he says the engine has be less powerful matching the weight, hence both will not share same engine.

Altis parts are not cheap either they are as expensive as Laura. And talking about A.S.S., I would say even Toyota A.S.S is going in to dog days, I have used 2 Toyota cars in the past 3 years and their service is becoming worse day by day.

Now, what is the discount you are getting for both cars?? I am sure there should be discounts for Altis, however not sure about Laura.

Altis - simply refused to give any discount since it is moving very fast (guess in Jan they sold some 600 or 700+ altis units). Whereas Skoda guys are dolling out discounts. They are now giving me a good 80K discount on the on-road price + all accessories (mats, mud flaps, Teflon coating, sun flims, body cover & IND plates).

Originally Posted by GTO

NONE!

The Altis D4D is too under-powered for guys like us, and the Laura MT is sold with a lower-spec diesel (unlike the 140 BHP DSG variant). Plus, the Laura isn't exactly a long term reliability champ.

My suggestion : Wait for the new Sonata before you decide; the Hyundai might well be worth it. I love their new designs, Hyundai has fantastic diesels and going by int'l reviews so far, the i45 is a sorted sedan. The launch shouldn't be more than a quarter or two away:

Link to SCOOP pic of i45 being tested

And yes, since the current Sonata Embera diesel is offered with a 6 speed manual, good chance of the new Sonata / i45 having a MT diesel too. Rumour mills insist that the i45 is going to be loaded to the gill with bells & whistles.

Thanks! After seeing the i45 pics - i was tempted and even called up Advaith Hyundai folks. Unfortunately - they have no clue (or they acting clueless) about the car or it's price/ specification/ launch date. As per them if at all it's getting launched - it not before i30....so minimum of 6 months to 9 months.

Can't wait that long. So basis the recommendation here - I am inclined towards Laura 2.0 MT. Negotiating with 2 Dealers. Already - was able to increase the discount from 60K to 85K + all accessories. Any other suggestions or is there a room to negotiate further?

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Like GTO said, man... you gotto wait. There are too many cars to be launched this year. After a few quarters, you will have 3-4 more options to choose from probably.

However, if you really can not wait, here are my preferences in the current available choices:

1) Laura 2.0 DSG: Like many have said already and since I have driven this car for around 50 KMs or so, its a complete monster to drive. "Neck sapping" acceleration! The braking is as amazing as is the pickup. I stopped at a speed of 130 KMPH, as if the car was sucked underground. No screeching, no jerks, just amazing. Also, Skoda cars are very well built. Rear seat is cramped compared to the others cars and the A/C vent and the hump are irritating for the middle passenger. Only issue could be the A.S.S., but I dont think its too bad. My friend owns a Laura TSI since last 1+ year and has had no issues with the dealer or service.

2) Cruze AT: Frankly, I am surprised when you say you were put off by the looks of the Cruze. IMHO, its the best looking in this segment. Plus it has all the features under the Sun. Chevy service is something I can not comment on much and unfortunately, all those 3 years free maintenance offers are not applicable on the Cruze.

3) Altis: I have not driven the Altis D4D, but whatever I have read about it here on TBHP and other sites, is that its lethargic to drive. But, Toyota service and resale value are the best in this class, by far.

On Cruze - it's big, has good power plant under it's hood, has gizmo's but i was put off by the overall looks, interiors especially the plastic....it looks cheap, *** & their pathetic resale value.

[D1ISTHE1]

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