[konjaril]

Originally Posted by dot

True, it is more of a lateral shift. However, "upgrade" is probably true when you consider that the 8th gen Civic is a better driver's car compared to the 2003 Corolla. As @flipsyde says, he likes driving hard.

I understand what you are saying abhijit, but as he mentioned about driving hard, the civic and corolla again dont have a huge margin of difference between them when it comes to real time engine perfomance. But yes i agree on terms of handling the civic does hold a candle to the corolla.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

considering that the Civic itself is due for a facelift very soon I wouldnt consider this a lateral upgrade.
more sensible frankly would be an used Skoda Laura or even Superb as mentioned by Konjaril.
Else, you could consider the new Altis instead, which in my opinion would be more sensible for Indian road conditions than the Honda Civic - whether the current one or the likely facelifted version - this on account of ground clearance primarily.

Oh yes, how could i forget about the old superb. simply brilliant!

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I will avoid the Skoda family. There are enough tales about really bad service and expensive parts.

Sir, You have rightly pointed out the con aspect of Skoda there. but i felt it had more to do with dealers than the manufacturer. Yes there are many horrer stories on the forum to put you off from buying a skoda but my Father recently brought the New Superb and the dealer experience for us was simply brilliant. although this is kerala i am talking about..

Originally Posted by flipsyde

@camchennai - Yeah even I felt the price for my old car was fair. Though like any other owner I'm greedy for more! The general opinion seems to be working in favour or keeping the Corolla. Lets see!

@konjaril - Very true even after driving a few Civics around I don't get that upgrade feeling. Of course this is purely a lateral upgrade. My intentions of buying the Civic are quite simple - newer car, lower kms on the ODO and satisfying my itch to change the Civic doesn't have too much going in its favour. What I am not sure is whether these 3 factors really is worth 3.5L.

Skodas are yet to win my mind. MY heart really goes out to their quality interiors, brand image etc etc. but fat service bills are not something which I want. The Sonata Embera CRDi is something I might be interested in. But most of them have quite a few kms on them. Besides that car being a diesel it doesn't have too much going for it. Its just not fun.

Fat bill services are something which you have to take a call on. i would still suggest you talking to some laura owners about their experiences. As some magazine once had rightly put it, one should never compare service bills of a maruti to a mercedes. Today you can buy an old gen mercedes at the same price of a brand new maruti but it wont be fair compairing both of them together. the parts are expensive but they seldom fail too. On a lighter note why not a well maintained w124 deisal.he he

Also i am sure most of the people here would agree on me that modern generation diesel engines are far more advanced than what they were. the laura although a diesel is a fun to drive car and can really blow your mind once you get to know of its potential.

Originally Posted by DarkEraser

How about selling current Corolla and buying new pre owned Corolla with less year old and less kms on the clock? This way you will remove 2 cons from your cons list.

BTW, if you want to do this then if possible buy next corolla before selling current one. And then compare and replace it's accessories with the current corolla's better one. For example if your current music system is better than the next corolla's then put it to the new car. Same you can do with tyres. Then sell your current car.

PS: If you have 7L budget then buy car for max 6L only. Keep 1L for additional work as generally all pre owned car need some work within next 6 months after buying..

Wow, dark eraser, your sugession seems far better now.

[shankar.balan]

I agree that the cost of spares is higher and availability + on time procurement could be a bit troublesome at times.
With this particular point of yours in mind, the Japanese vehicles will always have an advantage over the European ones.

Originally Posted by flipsyde

@shankar.balan - My problem mainly is the cost of spares. I don't rely on A S S and go to my trusted independent garage and procure OE parts from the market. And I am quite sure its harder to find these parts for the Skoda and even if I do are going to cost quite a lot in comparison to their Japanese rivals.

[flipsyde]

@mdsaab - Agreed. As a package the Civic is a better car. But is it 3.5L better?

@konjaril - I agree word to word what you say about the Corolla. Its not a great handler but its gr8 to drive in the city and on the highway. Very robust engine which is meant to be a workhorse and not a racer.

Keep in mind the whole idea of the upgrade is to go in for a younger car I will surely not look at a car prior to 2007. I am not sure if I can have the old superb at that price. I like driving Skodas around..... as far as they belong to someone else! Just kidding! Its a genuine opinion and yes I shall take a look at the cost of spares before ruling out Skodas. But I have read on the forum about Lauras with failed AC compressors which was sorted out in the later models. I am not sure if they are bulletproof. Also gearbox niggles seem to be cropping up here and there.

[Abhi_Automobile]

Somehow Sir I feel that the Skoda woes as publicized are slightly on the exaggerated side. Three or four of my pretty close pals own these cars and none of them have reported anything terribly out of the ordinary.
But it is true that the service bills are pretty large and the cost of spares is pretty high - in comparison to other, non-european makes in general.
Overall I like the Skoda attention to superb quality fit and finish. Everything in the vehicles speak volumes about their attention to quality and detail - there's no doubt about it. And the marque is a good way to enter the Euro Car club. I also think their vehicles are priced reasonably well here (even though they are more expensive than abroad) and this, despite all these wicked import duties etc that foreign manufacturers have to contend with in India.

+1 to it. You seem to be one of the few guys on the forum who seem to think as I do too. I think that some of the things talked about on the forum are way exaggerated. I am not saying that anybody is doing it on purpose, but it seems to have become more of trend.

On the other hand, it is true that the general upkeep and spares are costlier for any German car. Its a trade off you for having superior quality and attention to detail.

PS: If anybody thinks that I am prejudiced:--> Please sit inside the competitor car from the most celebrated Jab/Kor brand Toyota Corolla and then sit inside the least celebrated German (Czech) brand Skoda Laura. Feel the difference in each and every material used. On the other hand CIVIC, despite being Jap, has immaculate quality levels.


Coming back to the topic: If I were you, I'd avoid used Euros. They can be expensive to maintain.

[GTO]

It's less than 3 years since you bought your Corolla. RETAIN! For atleast another 30,000 - 50,000 kms, if not more. I don't think selling a Corolla for a newer Civic makes any sense for you. In fact, as your running is primarily within the city, the Corolla is actually far better (especially the low end torque).

Also, you've spent time & $$$ in bringing your Corolla to better health. These cars easily last 2,00,000 kms so please, use your car for a while more and save on big depreciation $$$.

Originally Posted by flipsyde

I should however blame (thank) GTO for his wonderful thread on lateral upgrading.

Well, also go back and see how much I love an EMI-free lifestyle

[Swanand Inamdar]

I know, I am coming back to the same topic - Skoda's. I agree that a lot has been said about the horror stories. but then 90 % of those stories were Dealer related and not the car mainly.

If 7L is the budget, and you WANT a lateral/upgrade, then why not have a look at the Skoda RS? Brilliant piece of car to drive. Getting one in that price would not be that dificult.

On another hand, also consider the Cruze, if you do get one in that price bracket. A lovely zippy car to drive!

[shankar.balan]

about used cars. there's always that percentage of doubt in a country like ours where the used car market is only now getting "corporatized". the mom and pop used car dealer cartels are quite capable of giving one a dodgy car with dodgy mileage on the odo and a whole lot of other stuff despite their high sounding statements and glib sales talk.

personally if I can afford it, I would rather buy brand new always - at least here in India. Or if a particular car is available used, from a person I know well, then I might consider it.

To get to your point. Most used cars, Euro, Jap, Korean or Indian, do tend to become a little expensive to maintain, with spares and replacements becoming due and the general service bills tending to rise after the car has clocked 50000kms and above.

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

+1 to it. Coming back to the topic: If I were you, I'd avoid used Euros. They can be expensive to maintain.

[ACM]

My suggestion

1) Retain the Corolla - A civic is not an upgrade to the Corolla (they are in a parallel/same segment) and in some ways you are likely to find the older corolla to be better than the newer civic.

2) Preowned Corolla Altis - But this is also not an upgrade and you should use your current car longer

3) Earlier Accord (2004-2007)- 2.4MT - Definately an upgrade over the Corolla 1.5 kmpl lesser than that what you have currently. But can be yours for just 2.5L more at the most.

4) Skoda Laura TSI - Also an upgrade of half a segment, Skoda is likely to be more expensive to maintain than the corolla but if you have the right service outlet it is not as bad as it is made out to be either. (The Auto DSG units and the earlier gen Laura had more issues including of the AC.) AC compressor can be replaced outside at private service centre for just about 35K, so even if it goes it is not the end of the world.

You need to choose between 1-4. Practically doing nothing is the most sensible decision but to enjoy life 3/4 may be most fun and 2 reasonable fun but also a lot of peace of mind.

Even if you do go for any of 1-4 above you will be back looking for a change in 3 years time.

[Unknownsatan]

Honda Civic
Pros - Newer car than current + Lower Kms + Better handling
Cons - Lower mileage + Poor low end torque + Low ground clearance + Unknown car history

Toyota Corolla
Cons - 8 year old car + 88k kms on the clock + Poor handling

If ya add and substract the above and is worth 3.5L then go ahead!

[flipsyde]

@abhi_automobile - Euro cars are way superior to Japs in build quality. I totally agree. They come at a price which I am not sure is something I want to pay. Not convinced with Skoda though I am not totally ruling them out.

@GTO - Ahh! Finally!! You are here! Your thread is the primary reason this thought even crossed my mind Glad to know you're enjoying your Civic. So far many who have heard my recent dilemma have asked me to stick with the Corolla for a while longer. Looks like you're rooting for the same.

Off topic, Toyota really seems to be having quite a few fans. The car is good no doubt but many seem to be vouching for its reliability, economy and maintenance on and off the forum. Never thought the Corolla won so many hearts!

@swanand - Skoda RS is a fab car to drive. But its uneconomical and reliability issues with regard to many major components are plenty. Besides I don't really need such a powerful car. I would love to have the Cruze! Its pulls like a train once the turbos spool up but otherwise. Looks good, drives well and the diesel economy. But sadly they are hard to find in the used car market and haven't depreciated to my price bracket.

@shankar.balan - A new car is a new car. Period. No matter who says what its a fact. But some of us dream bigger than our pockets can fork out. Used car is the only solution for us. Its a gamble some of us are willing to take.

@ACM - Join the "shut up and sit" club Seems to be attracting quite a few members this week! I like option 3 more than 4. In fact I would have gone in for it eyes closed if I had a small diesel also at home. This car I am going to buy is going to be the only car at home and need to be economical. With petrol prices at Rs.61.53/lit at the moment every last km counts.

@unknownsatan - Thats where I am having all the trouble!!!! I am not able to decide if its worth it.



The way things are going I just might stick with the Corolla and add another 10-15k kms on it and also save up so that I pick up a car from the next segment. That right now seems to be in favour. But I am not giving up yet

[Unknownsatan]

Originally Posted by flipsyde

@unknownsatan - Thats where I am having all the trouble!!!! I am not able to decide if its worth it.

This might sound a real stupid suggestion, but why dont ya keep the Corolla and then get a VRS? I am sure ya can get it for the price (may be 50k or so more).

Daily use- Corolla and for fun-VRS! (reliability will be guaranteed by Toyota and fun will be guaranteed by Skoda). Your use will be less on VRS and so the maintenance, not sure whether it makes sense.

Reason for me telling this- Ya will never feel happy if ya are in a confused state (unless everything is positive with your new car). Ya will always try to find out a reason or the other and think "why did i buy this" or "why did i sell this".

[flipsyde]

Thanks all for your valuable suggestions. I have decided not to upgrade or change my Corolla for now. I might consider saving up and probably upgrading to the next segment. I recently have set my eyes on the C 220 CDI which goes for around 15L for a 2007 model. If things go well I might get one sometime next year. Wish me luck!