[Poitive]

Hi Guys,

Need to buy a diesel sedan.

Briefly: Need a spacious sedan, which is reliable, inexpensive and hassle free to maintain. Being fun to drive is a big bonus. Budget: approx 7L (had the Manza in mind), which I can extend to 8L or at-most 9L for something very special (Optra?)

Now in more details:


* Am Bigly built and need a car with lots of leg-room and head-room.


* 90% usage is likely to be alone. In a few years, may be chauffer driven.


* Expect to keep the car for 5-7 years (1.25L to 1.75L kms)


* Approx 2000 kms / month, but may vary considerably. Typical usage will be in the city and city-suburb (Delhi-Gurgaon, Delhi-Noida/Greater Noida). City driving is usually on fairly open roads of Central-South Delhi. 1-3 highway trips of about 600-1200 kms/year. Once in 2-3 years a 3000kms+ trip (hence reliability is important).


* If the car is held up due to parts not being available or something, it can almost paralyze my life. So a car suspect on ***/Parts is worrisome.


* An Airy cabin is preferable.


* Gizmos in the car, though welcome, are not a prime concern.


* Driving Style : Drive on the faster side, but not at all the kind to breathe down the next car's neck. Need to have the confidence that the car would break/swerve aside well enoujgh, if one was in some extreme situation. Like to maintain a steady speed than the "rush to the next car" when on the highway.

Cars checked till now and views on them in the following posts ...

[sidindica]

1. Vento TDI HL
2. Verna RB 1.6 CRDi

[mdsaab]

Sidindica is spot on with the choices
you can also add the new ford fiesta to the list which should be launched shortly.

[SPARKled]

The Verna VGT is on the way out and the Vento TDI HL are unlikely to be available for about 8-9L on the road. The lower variants of the Linea can be got at that price which drives much better than the Manza. But for sheer space Manza is the only choice.

[Highflyer]

Optra Magnum 2.0 TDCI can be good choice.
It is big from inside. Has an airy cabin and is fun to drive.
Since you don't mind having no Gizmos, it has none.
Plane ,simple and a functional cabin.
Engine is a beast with 320 NM torque.
The only con is that it is three years old now and an upgrade may be out soon.
Vento is a more contemporary stuff. I suggest you take a test drive of these cars.

I would suggest that you wait for three months. New Fiesta and new Verna would be launched in next two months. You will have a much wider field to choose from.

[sidindica]

The problem with the optra is that its now an 8 year old product. The engine is 4 years old, but the chassis is the same Daewoo Nubira engineered in 2002. Second, the depreciation rate stinks like anything, even if the car is gonna be kept for 6-7 years. There are newer and better choices available then whats the point of the optra? The car's time has gone and it should be phased out. GM should come out with a stripped down Cruze LS for 2 lakhs less.

[Mustang.101]

From your points i see that space and driving pleasure are most important for you.

Manza : Sheer Space
New Fiesta : Sheer driving pleasure but less backseat space
New Verna : Future Jack of all trades
Vento : Current Jack of all trades but less backseat space

[Poitive]

Guys, had taken a few test drives before posting here and wanted to add that in the next post, however since I am a new member here, had to wait till the mods approved the first one. Am completing what I intented to say then.

Now for the observations about the TD's I had taken:

VW Vento


- Very Good to drive, but not brilliant.


-Found it pretty cramped. Even more so in the rear seat. Could not even sit straight!!! Ingress and Egress was not convenient for a tall guy. (Almost ruled out due to this)


-Cabin didn't feel ariy and felt physically and visually cramped.


- Pretty much like a hatch with a boot.


- Maintainence costs unknown.


- Seems to have a good image.


Pretty much ruled out because I can't even sit straight (am 6') in the back seat. The ingress and egress was terrible too.


Fiat Linea


- Good fun to drive. Good Handling. A bit bumpy.


- The engine vibrations did seem to come through into the cabin and steering.


- Cabin gave a cramped 'feeling'. Attractive looking dash, however overly done up, but nothing one can't live with.


- Admiartion guarenteed! Except for the front, looks like a stunner. Even the inside.


- After Sales from Tata, which seems to give Fiat a step motherly treatment. Tata anyway not known to be too good with ***.


- Moderately good image.


Under consideration, but wonder if it is worth the extra money vis-a-viz a Manza which provides a lot more space


Tata Manza


- Space, Space, Space! Loved the space inside the cabin. VERY comfortable.


- Supposed to be cheap to maintain.


- After Sales Service is suspect. Not known for it's reliablity.


- Fairly good driving experience. The vibrations, though a huge improvement over the Indigo, did come through into the cabin and on the steering.


- Frequent gear changes needed.


- Tata vehicles have a poor image (the Dilli-wala in me coming forward now!). Don't particularly fancy the idea of being in a Tata.


- Is the "logical" from the head choice car, however doesn't appeal to the heart at all.


This has been the base choice, but am looking for better options and the Tata tag isn't something I look forward to.


Ford Fiesta


- Had taken a test drive long back and remember it being very cramped in front. Enough to rule it out. Remember it having a gem of a deisel engine though.

Too cramped, even in the front to be seriously considered.

Hyundai Verna

-Had sat in it when it was launched. Found the cabin pretty much cramped. Was surprised that the old accent had more space.

Again too cramped to be seriously considered.

Maruti SX4 Deisel


- A very practical choice on many fronts.


- Spacious cabin. Easy ingress and egress.


- Don't like the styling of the car on the whole, but nothing I can't live with.


- Engine seems underpowered (1248cc for a large car). May not last the distance. I mean, I expect to keep the car for about 1.5L kms.


- Vibrations do come into the cabin.


- Seems to need a lot of gear changes, which may make city driving a pain.



- The A pillar Blind Spot is a HUGE bother. May be a big issue on hilly roads. Possibly enough to get one into an accident. It makes me wonder if it is prudent to even consider this car, given this issue. Am very seriously concerned about it.



- If one can ignore the problems the A pillar and vision problems it causes, it may be another 'logical-from the head' choice.

A serious choice, however wonder if it it worth the extra bucks over a Manza, with only minor benefits of a slightly better image and probably better reliability, however may not be as rugged. The A-Pillar issue is a serious hindrance to my mind.


Optra Magnum TDCi LS


- Whoooooooooooooo Hooooooooooooooooooooo! What a car to drive! Seriously!!!!! I mean, why, just why didn't this car sell in huge numbers?


- The driving experience was just wonderful. Have taken 2 test drives totalling to about 80 odd kms. Didn't feel tired after the drives, which were largely on open roads. Extreme acceleration. Loved the feeling of the torque and being pushed into the seat. Excellent brakes and straight line composure.


- Stable plaint ride. A bit of body roll and hence may not be the ideal car to be pushed into corners, but very good for everyday driving and more. Seems it would keep me comfortable on days when I need to drive 100 odd kms in a day in the city/city-suburb.


- Dated Cabin. However feels pretty ariy. I like that the dashobard doesn't get onto your face (unlike the newer "modern" cars like the Linea, City etc). The Music system could have surely been better, however those can be changed over time.


- Spacious cabin with ample head and leg room. Very comfortable seats- Front and back. Seems will be good as both- a self driven or as a chauffer driven car. (giving as powerful a car to a young driver does worry me a bit though)


- Not the smartest car on the block, but acceptably good looking.


- Seems to have a good image, though not top of the line. Please correct me here if my perception is wrong.


- Just loved the car and am glad that something like this is available at about 9L after discounts.


- Heart yearns for this car. Head wonders at it's prudence, given that it may be phased out soon. Any idea if it really is going to be phased out?

Now for the questions...



* As you may have guessed, am inclined towards the Optra Magnum TDCi LS. Am reluctant to increase the budget as much, but seems that the vehicle will keep me fresher during long days and hence may pay back by increasing my work effeciency.


* However have concerns about it's after sales service. Any gain in personal time and effeciency would be lost to frustrating After Sales Service.


* My Biggest concern if the parts being available for the next 5-7 years, given this car may be phased out. I think it has been around in some avatar or the other since about 2000.
Guidance and views on this are very much needed.


* Any idea of how long this car may be in production?


* Would Optra be reliable enough for 3000kms (or longer) trips?


* Any other opinions on what car may be suitable are welcome.

Originally Posted by sidindica

1. Vento TDI HL
2. Verna RB 1.6 CRDi

Sidindica, Was very surprised at the space in the Vento. Could not even sit straight on the rear seat. No headroom (am 6').

Verna, when I had seen it on it's launch too was pretty cramped. Even lesser cabin space than the Accent. Also, the Korean cars don't seem rugged enough.

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Sidindica is spot on with the choices
you can also add the new ford fiesta to the list which should be launched shortly.

The new Fiesta shown in Autocar seems very appealing. Wonder if it will have the required space, considering how cramped the current Fiesta seems. Also, unsure if the extra bucks would be worth it. My search started with a Manza at about 7L OTR.

Originally Posted by SPARKled

The Verna VGT is on the way out and the Vento TDI HL are unlikely to be available for about 8-9L on the road. The lower variants of the Linea can be got at that price which drives much better than the Manza. But for sheer space Manza is the only choice.

SPARKled, The Linea looks a whole lot better from the rear and the side. From the front, both look pretty bad. The handling seems better in the Linea, though the Manza seems better for everyday driving. Any other thoughts on how the Linea is better?

Originally Posted by sidindica

The problem with the optra is that its now an 8 year old product. The engine is 4 years old, but the chassis is the same Daewoo Nubira engineered in 2002. Second, the depreciation rate stinks like anything, even if the car is gonna be kept for 6-7 years. There are newer and better choices available then whats the point of the optra? The car's time has gone and it should be phased out. GM should come out with a stripped down Cruze LS for 2 lakhs less.

Yes Sidindica, the chasis is the same Nubira/Lancetti one, however it seems to do it's job. Getting about 1-1.5L less after 5-7 years is something I am willing to take given the sheer comfort and driving pleasure this car offers (may be more efficient in work to offset that cost ).

The big concern is about the car being stuck for days for the lack of spares. Being without it may paralyze my life. That is the big concern.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Posts merged. Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

[Highflyer]

@Sidindica I agree with you that Optra is now slightly dated.
However the engine although 4 years old is still as modern and capable as some of the latest in similarly priced cars.
I have not owned an Optra but if you go by the feedback of owners on TBHP then Optra is a very capable car.
Cruze LT is already stripped down without a large number of basic stuff.
The better choice would be to upgrade Optra with features like steering mounted
controls, rear ac vents, ICE with USB, ESP,EBD,immobiliser etc and there would be
enough people out there to go for it just for the driving pleasure of this beast.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Highflyer

Optra Magnum 2.0 TDCI can be good choice.
It is big from inside. Has an airy cabin and is fun to drive.
Since you don't mind having no Gizmos, it has none.
Plane ,simple and a functional cabin.
Engine is a beast with 320 NM torque.
The only con is that it is three years old now and an upgrade may be out soon.
Vento is a more contemporary stuff. I suggest you take a test drive of these cars.

I would suggest that you wait for three months. New Fiesta and new Verna would be launched in next two months. You will have a much wider field to choose from.

@Highflier, am on the same page as you. Just love the Optra Magnum and it seems to tick most of the boxes. Big concerns being spending 2L extra and being stuck with a car which may have issues with spares availability.

If it is an upgrade one expects on the Magnum, it may make sense to buy now, as the upgrade is likely to increase prices and make this beautiful beast out of my reach. Also, that would mean that the spares would be available over time. However, if it is discontinued it may lead to serious issues with repairs.

[Highflyer]

@Poitive I test drove Manza and Optra back to back and can tell you that Manza is miles behind Optra in most the aspects. Where Manza scores is that it gives a lot of
features like steering mounted controls,ICE with USB etc. But remember that a car has
to be a good car first.
Optra wins hands down in handling, power, comfort,build and many other aspects.
I have also driven Fiesta(old) and found that Optra is better in a lot of aspects. Have
not driven Vento so can't comment on that.

However there is no doubt that Optra is slightly dated and resale value sucks.

New Fiesta and Verna should be able to offer a lot. Fiesta is doing well wherever it has
been launched across the globe.

@Poitive waiting for your post on cars checked.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Mustang.101

From your points i see that space and driving pleasure are most important for you.

Manza : Sheer Space
New Fiesta : Sheer driving pleasure but less backseat space
New Verna : Future Jack of all trades
Vento : Current Jack of all trades but less backseat space

Mustang, you got the essence of it all. Space and driving pleasure. Also not being stuck without spares or with exorbitant repair costs.

Manza - Current favorite along-with the Optra Magnum.
New Fiesta - What news on it's launch, price and cabin space (find the current Fiesta very cramped)
New Verna - Hope the cabin is more spacious than the current one. Looks good in the Autocar pics. Wonder if it could be sturdier than the current Hyundais, which seem to start rattling pretty easily.
Vento - Terrible ingress-egress for a tall person. Can't even sit straight in the rear seat. :-(

[Highflyer]

@Poitive I have also to buy a car. My heart is screaming for Optra but head is asking me to be cautious. Gone over each and every post related to this beast.
I am yet to come across someone who has not liked it.
Equipment list is short though.
I have kept a deadline of April end for myself. If nothing is announced by GM about Optra then I am going for it (99.9%).

I suggest you go over these threads which would give you a good idea about what you are getting into.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-2-0-tcdi.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-new-love.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...xp-report.html

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Highflyer

@Poitive I test drove Manza and Optra back to back and can tell you that Manza is miles behind Optra in most the aspects. Where Manza scores is that it gives a lot of
features like steering mounted controls,ICE with USB etc. But remember that a car has
to be a good car first.
Optra wins hands down in handling, power, comfort,build and many other aspects.
I have also driven Fiesta(old) and found that Optra is better in a lot of aspects. Have
not driven Vento so can't comment on that.

However there is no doubt that Optra is slightly dated and resale value sucks.

New Fiesta and Verna should be able to offer a lot. Fiesta is doing well wherever it has
been launched across the globe.

@Poitive waiting for your post on cars checked.

Highflier, we seem to share the same feeling about cars! As far as driving is concerned, the Optra seems to be miles ahead of the other cars in the 7-9L price bracket. It really is a segment or more higher than the others and has a 2000cc engine where as the others are with 1250-1600 cc engines. Found it much better than even the Vento - much better(took a second TD of the Optra right after the Vento).

Do like the gizmos, however as you say, the heart/basics of the car need to be good first. So not having the gizmos of the Manza is something I can live without, for the driving pleasure the Optra offers.

Can you please share any resources you may have come across for the New Fiesta?

The posts on the cars checked seem to be up now, after approval from the mods (am a new member, hence the Mods need to approve the posts first)

Originally Posted by Highflyer

@Poitive I have also to buy a car. My heart is screaming for Optra but head is asking me to be cautious. Gone over each and every post related to this beast.
I am yet to come across someone who has not liked it.
Equipment list is short though.
I have kept a deadline of April end for myself. If nothing is announced by GM about Optra then I am going for it (99.9%).

I suggest you go over these threads which would give you a good idea about what you are getting into.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-2-0-tcdi.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-new-love.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...xp-report.html

I too went through most posts on this wonderful car on team-bhp. Got me wanting it even more! Thanks for sharing the links.

Team-Bhp seems to be a forum of auto enthusiasts and it is natural for a performance car to be appreciated a lot. For me, well I sure do love driving and occasionally drive hard. However for day to day use, it is more about being able to drive sensibly and keep a good steady speed (especially on sub-urban visits) still knowing I can have fun, if the road allows and one is in the mood. Am just cautious to get swayed into spending more than one set out to for a car which may spend days in the workshop for lack of availability of spares.

Head says No to the Optra.
Heart screams out for it. Loudly!

[sidindica]

The optra's value crashes by 50 percent in the first year itself. Spares should be available given there are decent number of optras on the roads but the biggest problem is its dated. Its still a good underrated product though. I am talking about the to-be-launched-soon Verna RB, not the current verna.

Or else, search heard for a pre owned optra magnum TCDi. Get in touch with "chevrolet OK promise" or other pre owned dealers. Why not start your search for a pre owned Cruze? Try hard and you can find some. But if spares should be a concern, wait for the Verna RB. Just 15-20 days more.