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Old 22nd October 2017, 22:01   #466
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Re: Recession Again ?

This was in today's TOI by Chetan Bhagat. Not a fan of the author, but found the points relevant.

Quote:
However, the government seems to have become obsessed with one thing — black money. A lot of black money holders have done business for decades in a culture of tax evasion. These few hundred thousand people control our economy, creating millions of legitimate jobs and adding billions to the GDP. What do we do in this situation? Suffocate them, and the jobs they create, to death? Or do we live with the good and bad they represent, and softly move them towards a cleaner system? Should we teach them a lesson for being bad, and risk businesses shrinking and jobs getting lost? Or should we come up with easier ways so the business gets cleaner over time?

There are no easy answers. However, GDP data indicates that the government may have been a bit too strict. Today, the entrepreneur fears the taxman. Nobody wants to grow or take big risks in an atmosphere of fear. Despite assurances from the tax department of no unnecessary harassment, there are so many new rules that if someone wants to make a businessman’s life difficult in this country, they can. If the entrepreneur goes into consolidation mode, we will have an economic slowdown for sure.
https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatime...-into-despair/
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Old 23rd October 2017, 08:59   #467
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Re: Recession Again ?

@Samurai; Is you experience to be credited to teething troubles, or people going back to old ways. I wonder. If the latter then there may be trouble brewing.

My wife read about Agra. Some guy laundered his money by putting about 2l each into the accounts of his employees.The taxman sniffed it, since all of a sudden all balances esp in JanDhan went up. So they visited the factory, and found out that 'Sethji' had put the money into the accounts. They got affidavits from all the staff, and then confronted Setji with the evidence. Sure enough he had no option but to admit. Seems the deal was for them to pay back about 8-10k per month.
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Old 24th October 2017, 20:28   #468
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Re: Recession Again ?

Some recent posts move here.
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Old 25th October 2017, 11:18   #469
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Re: Recession Again ?

I found this recent interview with Dipak Gupta, Joint Managing Director of Kotak Mahindra Bank in ET interesting
(Link)

Though, I'm no economics expert, some of the views/points made by Mr.Gupta make sense to me. Like for instance this one:

What about the Goods and Services Tax?
GST again falls into three categories — the good, the bad, and the ugly. The organised part is good and they are a little concerned about the process related issues. The bad is the intermediate piece which is partly organised and partly unorganised and they are fighting more of the economics, whether the rate should be 28% or 18% or 5%. But the ugly one is the unorganised because the problem part of GST is that if you have anything to do with the chain and you are not organised, then you are in trouble. But if you are organised and you are part of the GST chain, it’s great for the system. Two years down the line, it is going to be very good for the system. So why is the ugly category not wanting to be part of the chain? His problem is less of GST. His problem is more of income tax. If I was not disclosing anything, and suddenly you say be part of the chain, I don’t mind. But I have never shown an income of more than Rs 2 lakh, so, how will I show my real income of a crore of rupees.

Any comments by bhpians who have some understanding on this topic? @sgiitk, @Samurai, @V.Narayan, anybody else?

Mods: Please move it to some other thread if it is irrelevant to this thread

Last edited by srvm : 25th October 2017 at 11:21.
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Old 25th October 2017, 12:30   #470
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Re: Recession Again ?

^That's a good summary. I will add just add my two cents based on what I gather from friends in the manufacturing sector:

1. There is some ambiguity with GST on certain items. Nobody in the system is able to provide clarity, they recommend higher rate to be on the safe side. For the same item some suppliers are charging 28% and while some other are charging 18%. The guys who are charging 18% are taking a big risk and they are doing it mostly because they are forced by their customers that refuse to pay higher rate.

2. Some businesses are withholding GST while paying to the suppliers saying they will pay the GST once the supplier pays it. They do this because if supplier fails to pay then they won't get GST credit. Supplier needs more working capital as a result.

3. As Samurai mentioned earlier, some businesses are viable only because they don't pay tax. These are run of the mill companies that can't compete on quality but are able to survive because they sell cheap by not paying taxes. If you are in the manufacturing sector you will know the intense pressure on suppliers to reduce prices year after year. You may say let these companies die but it will have a huge impact on jobs. Unfortunately a major portion of companies fall into this category because the system incentivised such entrepreneurs. Filling the void created by such companies should be an immediate priority.

4. If we ignore the noise made by companies that hate GST because they don't want to pay tax, the honest companies still have a lot to complain: the bandwidth needed to understand and comply, pricing impact due to higher rate in some cases, working capital requirement, risk of "GST loop" where someone in the chain doesn't pay or shuts shop.

In my personal opinion, large companies are well positioned to deal with and take advantage of GST regime. The smaller guys may find it stifling. I may sound very controversial but I would prefer a society with a lot of smaller businesses than fewer large businesses even if it means things are not so great on the tax compliance front. High levels of employment is very healthy for a society which can only be done by a large number of small businesses.

It would be tragic if GST regime significantly reduces the number of small businesses in our country irrespective of tax compliance improvements. Also large companies don't evade tax but they are very good at avoiding tax. Ideal situation would be to have a large number of healthy tax paying small businesses but it won't happen as long as we follow the American/Wall Street model.
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Old 24th November 2017, 11:20   #471
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Re: Recession Again ?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/61760886.cms

The above news is quite shocking. It can single-handedly kill the IT/ITES industry that is already tottering on the brink of a long downhill slide.

An email is considered goods now? What are these people smoking...
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Old 24th November 2017, 12:24   #472
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Re: Recession Again ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/61760886.cms

Is an email considered goods now? What are these people smoking...
This is horrible, it is difficult to digest some of the worst decisions taken by administrators in 3 years. The policies seem to be oriented to block money.
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Old 24th November 2017, 13:07   #473
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Re: Recession Again ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/61760886.cms

The above news is quite shocking. It can single-handedly kill the IT/ITES industry that is already tottering on the brink of a long downhill slide.

An email is considered goods now? What are these people smoking...
Quote:
Originally Posted by deehunk View Post
This is horrible, it is difficult to digest some of the worst decisions taken by administrators in 3 years. The policies seem to be oriented to block money.
Seems the dissent in the Industry has reached the corridors of power. Another report today about how the Govt. is "looking into it".

Govt steps to resolve Rs 10,000 cr tax googly for IT, ITeS firms

A small excerpt from the article -
Quote:
The government on Thursday rushed to resolve the tax issues faced by about 200 information technology and ITenabled services companies who were asked to pay a total of Rs 10,000 crore in taxes. The Central Board of Excise and Customs (CBEC) has asked indirect tax commissioners to prepare a detailed report on “place of supply” provisions and names of companies impacted by this
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Old 24th November 2017, 13:16   #474
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Re: Recession Again ?

This is somebody making a quick buck and will be resolved quickly. Now that elections are around, politicians need money. Once election funds are transferred, the tax department will recall the notice.
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Old 24th November 2017, 13:18   #475
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Re: Recession Again ?

When any export is done, the government earns foreign exchange. This is lot more profitable to the government than the service tax. That is why governments often forego service tax to encourage exports.

Now some idiots in government have decided that they want service tax along with foreign exchange. This will make exports more expensive, customers will look elsewhere, MNCs will move to other countries, and there will be no more foreign exchange and nothing to tax in the IT industry.
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Old 24th November 2017, 16:48   #476
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Re: Recession Again ?

This is crazy! I wonder what foreign investors must be thinking. Can the tax authorities blatantly interpret rules however they want or were companies flouting the rules and the tax authorities decided to enforce it?
The IT industry is already under stress, jobs being lost,cost cutting etc and now this. I guess the future prospects of corporate lawyer and tax men look good instead of IT nerds


If the government wants make in India to succeed,it better start getting its act together and define proper rules etc for the tax authorities.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 13:28   #477
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Re: Recession Again ?

2018 starts with more focus on skills and more restrictions on immigration in US.

Interview with R Chandrashekar and Nilekani's advice to employees

Last edited by AltoLXI : 3rd January 2018 at 13:33.
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Old 4th January 2018, 09:11   #478
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Re: Recession Again ?

Recession doesn't hit CEO payouts ?

Quote:
CEO Salil Parekh will be paid a fixed salary of Rs 6.5 crores and would be eligible for variable pay of Rs 9.75 crores at the end of the 2018-2019 fiscal year, the company said in a postal ballot
Source
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Old 27th December 2018, 16:50   #479
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Re: Recession Again ?

Are we heading into another recession ?

Quote:
The volatile stock market is signaling uncertainty about the economy next year, possibly even a recession.

Link
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Old 1st January 2019, 10:50   #480
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Re: Recession Again ?

^^^^^
I don't know if the US economy is headed for a recession but the Indian economy is probably going to chug along at the new Hindu rate of growth of 6% or so. I doubt it will fall below that. A well summed up article below {I have quoted some excerpts} that indicates we are not going to do 7% for sure and equally not likely to fall below 6% either. The combination of Brexit and the US economy getting into trouble cannot be fully predicted however. The chances of India remaining a relatively positive spot in a lack lustre global environment is a good possibility.

2018 reminded us of how important low crude oil prices are to the health of the Indian economy. When crude prices fall, we get a boost to growth; when they rise, the current account deficit widens, the rupee falls, prices rise, growth falters and foreign investors flee our stock markets. The high price of crude was an important reason why the UPA-II government wobbled in its final years and it was a big reason why the economy did so well under the current government in 2014-15 and 2015-16. Let's see.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://indianexpress.com/article/ex...t-yet-5516288/

"What to expect in 2019, Economy: Some gains likely in poll year, but don’t count on growth spurt yet"
Written by P Vaidyanathan Iyer ; December 31, 2018 11:18:31 am

Quote:
The New Year will probably have a few things going for the Indian economy, even though these may not translate into higher growth. Gains from big legislative reforms such as the Goods and Services Tax (GST) and The Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code (IBC) will start accruing in the coming year(s). Lower global crude oil prices — of $50 or so a barrel — will certainly help. But a powering down of the global economy will restrain India’s manufacturing and services exports..…companies may go slow on investments due to policy uncertainty in an election year, and banks grappling with bad loans will still find it difficult to lend. There is limited fiscal space for extra government expenditure over the next three months. On the other hand, subdued farm incomes and the wearing off of Pay Commission awards may dent the consumption story. Pre-election noises promising unemployment allowances and farm debt waivers point to rising stress on the fiscal, both at the Centre and in the states. Added to this are global uncertainties. Overall, 2019 looks like a lacklustre year, presenting a weak outlook for the economy, and more volatility in the stock markets.

Two decisions taken by the BJP-led government over the past four-and-a-half years have been transformative: the GST Act, and the IBC. The initial hiccups in the implementation of GST could disappear in 2019, with streamlining of procedures. As revenue streams turn more encouraging, the government will probably fix a single tax rate for all goods and services. The IBC, on the other hand, offers huge possibilities in addressing the bad loans problem. The process will likely mature in 2019 and beyond, with a bulk of the cases being resolved through mutual consultations between banks and company promoters. These are huge pluses, and paint a wonderful investment picture for long-term investors.....The seeds of GST were sown in 2000, and insolvency reforms have been in the works since 1992. For the economy to start realising the gains from the two reform measures requires these to stabilise and consolidate on the ground.

Rahul Gandhi’s announcements on farm loan waivers will put competitive populist pressure on the BJP ahead of the Lok Sabha elections. Such policies adversely impact government finances, lead to higher deficits, and reduce the headroom for the central bank to reduce policy rates......In any election year, three or four crucial months are lost because there is no concerted expenditure push by the government. Bound by the Model Code of Conduct, the government will be able to present only a Vote on Account (also called Interim Budget) which allows for basic spending for a part of the year. Once the new government is sworn in, it takes about a month to present the full Budget, which symbolically also serves as its first big economic policy statement. In other words, the April-June quarter will just pass by, in elections and government formation.

By and large, economic momentum in the short run has little to do with politics. Whether it is the BJP-led NDA or the Congress-led UPA or a non-BJP, non-Congress Third Front, India’s reform path is more or less set.

In 2014, Narendra Modi promised development, an end to the so-called policy paralysis, a revival of investments, growth and jobs, and a war on corruption. The markets couldn’t have asked for more. Over the last four years, the government under Prime Minister Modi has launched many programmes and new schemes, but by and large, it has expanded its role in the economy…..But this hasn’t helped boost private sector investment, critical for job creation. ... the economy has clearly been unable to provide income-earning opportunities to the million-plus individuals who enter the labour market every month. This stance by the Congress will put competitive populist pressure on the BJP ahead of the Lok Sabha elections. Such policies adversely impact government finances, lead to higher deficits, and reduce the headroom for the central bank to reduce policy rates. This in turn, affects private investment decisions.

Multiple factors on the domestic front raise red flags for the economy. The liquidity crisis that has hit non-banking finance companies affects specific segments. Belt-tightening by the government due to limited fiscal space will prevent any dramatic rise in public sector expenditure. The balance sheet clean-up of banks and high-debt companies will take a while, and fresh capital expenditure may take up to 12 months. Even if companies have utilised their capacities, the first round of additional capacity would come more from brownfield expansion, rather than greenfield. Further, this has to be driven more through consumer demand within, rather than exports. But consumers need jobs to earn income and spend. Debt-funded consumption may not be sustainable....

Right now, the world is talking about a cyclical slowdown, if not a recession. The fall in the prices of crude oil, a bellwether of global growth, is of particular concern. Although the Federal Reserve has increased rates for five consecutive quarters, the last one less than two weeks ago, worries have emerged now over whether the US would grow as fast as it did in 2018, when the annualised quarterly growth was 4%. Interest rate hikes in the US would essentially mean a further strengthening of the dollar, making it more difficult for emerging economies to repay their dollar debts. In China, growth has already moderated, but there are still questions as to how much more its economy will slow down. Growth prospects in Europe do not inspire confidence. The International Monetary Fund expects the global economy to grow at 2.5% in 2019, compared with 2.9% in 2018.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 1st January 2019 at 10:58.
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