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Old 13th June 2024, 08:06   #4741
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Folks,


I use Moneycontrol portfolio management to track my investments.
One option would be - create an account on ETMoney. You dont have to invest using ETMoney. But they have an option to upload your non-ETMoney investments. Basically your CAS statement is loaded in and they show a pretty good dashboard of all your MFs and their XIRR, invested amount, total profit, etc. This is not a complete solution, but atleast shows you your MF portfolio in one place.
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Old 17th June 2024, 11:35   #4742
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

I have a long question for tax and MF experts.

Say, on retirement in couple of decades, I have MF investments that I will use for -
i. Regular living expenses and maintenance.
ii. Passing on wealth to my next generation

Lets say, I have MF investments accounting to Long term cap gains and short term cap gains.

For the above use cases, I feel it will be good to use the short term cap gains for my regular living expenses. As this would be taxed at my slab rate. And without any other income, the taxation might be lower.

And the long term gain MF folios should be best kept for wealth transfer to next generation. Is my assumption correct?

And if I am right, then I need to maintain MF folio/accounts with short term gains. Else I will not be able to use it this way due to FIFO accounting mechanism.

Or am I just burning too much brain calories for nothing.
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Old 17th June 2024, 15:41   #4743
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by Naetik30 View Post
I have a long question for tax and MF experts.

Say, on retirement in couple of decades, I have MF investments that I will use for -
i. Regular living expenses and maintenance.
ii. Passing on wealth to my next generation

Lets say, I have MF investments accounting to Long term cap gains and short term cap gains.
Let's look at this in some detail.

For debt funds (equity <35%), this question does not arise as the distinction between short-term and long-term is no longer applicable (from 1st Apr 2023). Everything is taxed as per your IT slab.

For equity funds (Equity > 65%), the ST gains are taxed at 15% irrespective of your slab. The LT gains are taxed at 10% again irrespective of your slab. However, these LT capital gains are tax-free, up to Rs 1 lakh per year. So, there is a possibility that even if all your gains are long term, then you need not pay any tax. With this considered, in the first three years you should withdraw from the funds in which you have LT gains and let the funds with the ST gains move to LT gains.

The interesting category is the Hybrid funds which maintain an equity % strictly between 35 and 65. I had written about this earlier:

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Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
How come there are very few funds in the Balanced Hybrid category i.e. 35% < Equity < 65%. Valueresearch shows only 6 funds in this category.

I believe the taxation for this category still enjoys long term indexation benefits on 20% tax rate, as was the case for all debt funds before this year.

Combining indexation benefits with a SWP can practically bring down taxes to 0. Am I missing something?
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Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
PPFAS Mutual Fund applies for dynamic asset allocation scheme with SEBI
In the long term, almost zero tax is possible (with a combination of SWP + long term indexation) in the funds which maintain this asset allocation (35 % < Equity < 65%). I am personally making more investments in PPFAS Dynamic Aset Allocation Fund (standard disclaimers apply, please do your own research).

Last edited by DigitalOne : 17th June 2024 at 15:42.
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Old 18th June 2024, 16:50   #4744
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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I have the SIP running in below funds
Mirae asset midcap
Kotak flexicap
PGIM flexicap
PPFAS flexicap
Samco active momentum (very recent)
Reshuffled + increased my monthly SIPs to below. I know the number of schemes are lot more then usually advised, but I kept adding SIPs of schemes I thought to be good

Mirae asset midcap - 15% (XIRR 31%)
Kotak flexicap - 15% (XIRR 27%)
Kotak Healthcare - 9% (XIRR 6% - started just couple months back)
PPFAS flexicap - 11% (XIRR 26%)
Samco active momentum - 17%(XIRR 33%)
Samco Dynamic Asset allocation (hybrid) - 17% (XIRR 12%)
Mahindra Manulife Large & mid - 9% (XIRR - 38%)
Quant Large & Mid - 9% (XIRR 69%)

I get the XIRR through the monthly CAS I receive from NSDL via email

Mirae Midcap & Kotak Flexi are my longest running SIPs @ 5 years.
Rest I kept adding 3 years back.
All are direct plans, invested via MFU

Returns are modest when compared to what some other members have managed to achieve, but they are beating my threshold.

I will find some time and do a consolidated XIRR for all schemes together to know how I did overall.
It will need some doing as SIPs date back to 2019.
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Old 19th June 2024, 21:37   #4745
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

I am considering MFs (active or passive) for primary and long-term investment (15 to 20 years goals). Need some pointers from the experienced folks here.

From my research, and from my past investment experience, Few major observations are
1) Huge money has been entering Indian markets for the last few years for various reasons.
2) And this money is pushed to the same set of companies (top 500) and most of these companies aren't doing any innovation or any major breakthroughs unlike OpenAI, Nvidia, Tesla, BYD etc in other countries. Some of them Riding on popular trends like Renewable energy, Infra but nothing to write about by products from them.
3) Rise of index MFs, even making this process automated.
4) This flow is cyclical - Bluechips, then mid caps, then small caps, then PSUs (as all others are exhausted) and again repeat. Another pattern is money chasing growth stocks till they overheat then value stocks till they lose the value factor and again repeat.

So, as an investor, though we can't time the market, looks like we can focus on certain segments based on the current cyclical nature and appropriately allocate our money if we are starting regular or lumpsum investment into MFs.

Following are PEs of major indexes in the Nifty at present.
Nifty 50 - 22.36
Nifty Next 50 - 25.50
Nifty Midcap150 - 41.82 (Highly overvalued IMO)
Nifty SmallCap250 - 30.15 (overvalued IMO)

I read sometime back that PE of <25 for broad blue-chip indexes is safe to enter.
So, I think it is better to allocate more funds to Nifty50 and Next50 now than their intended ratio in our long-term multi-cap portfolio because of the relative VFM.

For example:- if we want to have Nifty 50, Next50, MC, SC in 50:25:15:10 ratio in longterm folio , I would contribute now in 65:25:3:7 (ballpark numbers) and change this ratio based on changing PE ratios. I know if the existing corpus is high the incremental investments won't affect much and I don't want to take a call in rebalancing the whole corpus etc at this point of time. but at least I feel this strategy is useful during the initial years of corpus building.

Have you guys followed such strategies in the past and what is your overall opinion? Any particular formula to determine the ratios? How to backtest this strategy? Can you suggest good index funds or etfs for this?

Or you suggest any other investment strategies or funds?

I hear momentum, alpha and low volatility index funds also doing well but most of them are recent. How to get rolling returns for these indexes? And in what conditions we can enter and exit these funds? For example, I see if we expect steady and longterm growth of the market then momentum index may outperform regular index funds.
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Old 20th June 2024, 19:50   #4746
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by maverick42 View Post
I've been at the investing game for some time now and one thing that stands out is the fact that, there is no one tool that let's one track everything under the sun. But money control sure does come close. There used to be something called Perfios which has now shut down retail usage and has gone b2b. I'm closely following the Artos project that someone who has a similar vision is developing but not yet jumped into it
I use Artos app in my android phone and it is a good app. It allows you to track everything from PF, PPF, fixed deposits, loans, goals, stocks, mutual funds etc. But they request you to enter your login credentials in their app(to sync your zerodha/coin transactions) and they store credentials on your phone. If you upload your pf/ppf statement they update even those. But, itís a single developer based project(no ads) and is a bit slow and sometimes a little buggy or letís say work in progress.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 23:23   #4747
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

Another hit to investor confidence: Quant MF now suspected of front running.
SEBI, on Friday raided Quant MF offices in Hyderabad and Mumbai and seized some documents based on suspicions of front running by fund managers of the AMC.
Source: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...-12754521.html

This news comes as a big dent to investor’s confidence, as due to stellar performance of Quant MFs, it saw huge surges of investors money and a big chunk of recent SIP inflows. MF investors will recall recent losses to them due to same issue of front running by Axis mutual fund in 2022 where one of its fund managers was found guilty as charged.

It remains to be seen what happens to Quant MF NAVs tomorrow.
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Old 23rd June 2024, 23:58   #4748
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Another hit to investor confidence: Quant MF now suspected of front running.
SEBI, on Friday raided Quant MF offices in Hyderabad and Mumbai and seized some documents based on suspicions of front running by fund managers of the AMC.
Source: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...-12754521.html

It remains to be seen what happens to Quant MF NAVs tomorrow.
I don't think this will affect the NAV in any way. Even if investors choose to exit Quant MFs, the fund will just sell the underlying stocks to repay the investors.
In the Axis case, once the offending fund managers were identified, Axis fired them, and the fund continued with improvement's to its processes.

As long as Sandeep Tandon is not involved, who is the brains behind Quant's performance, I don't see this affecting Quant negatively. The AUM may go down, but the NAV should be unaffected.
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Old 24th June 2024, 07:37   #4749
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Another hit to investor confidence: Quant MF now suspected of front running.
SEBI, on Friday raided Quant MF offices in Hyderabad and Mumbai and seized some documents based on suspicions of front running by fund managers of the AMC.
Source: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...-12754521.html

This news comes as a big dent to investorís confidence, as due to stellar performance of Quant MFs, it saw huge surges of investors money and a big chunk of recent SIP inflows. MF investors will recall recent losses to them due to same issue of front running by Axis mutual fund in 2022 where one of its fund managers was found guilty as charged.

It remains to be seen what happens to Quant MF NAVs tomorrow.
Communication from Quant Fund House.

Dear Investor,



Greetings from Mutual Fund



As a policy, we donít comment on the media reports, however here is an important update to clarify some points to maintain transparency with all our stake holders .



Recently, quant Mutual Fund has received inquiries from SEBI, and we want to address any concerns you may have regarding this matter.



We want to assure you that quant Mutual Fund is a regulated entity, and we are always fully committed to cooperate with the regulator throughout any review. We will provide all necessary support and continue to furnish data to SEBI on a regular and as-needed basis.



quant mutual fund has emerged as one of the fastest growing in the country and best performing fund houses in most of schemes. Our primary goal remains unchanged: to deliver superior risk-adjusted returns to all our valued investors. Your confidence in quant Mutual Fund is of utmost importance to us, and we are dedicated to maintaining transparency and adherence to regulatory standards.



We appreciate the confidence, faith and strength of 80 lacs plus folios and Rs. 93,000 Crore plus AUM and we believe that the same support will continue as quantís research capabilities and analytical tools will keep our investors ahead in the curve and we remain committed to deliver superior risk-adjusted returns in the future too.



We wish to thank you once again for showcasing the continued trust in quant Mutual Fund.



Regards,

Team quant Mutual
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Old 24th June 2024, 09:11   #4750
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

There can be a biggish fall in smallcaps held by Quant MF over the next week, especially those focussed on small & midcap funds. That's because investors in Quant MF might exit the funds. This will force the fund manager to sell shares.

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Originally Posted by VWAllstar View Post
Communication from Quant Fund House.
This is taken from the book "How to issue a clarification without issuing a clarification"

Last edited by SmartCat : 24th June 2024 at 09:13.
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Old 24th June 2024, 09:51   #4751
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
There can be a biggish fall in smallcaps held by Quant MF over the next week, especially those focussed on small & midcap funds.
The small cap and midcap market indices seem to have taken this news in their stride at least today. Not too much variance from the Nifty 50 or the Nifty Next 50 indices.
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Old 24th June 2024, 10:07   #4752
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
There can be a biggish fall in smallcaps held by Quant MF over the next week, especially those focussed on small & midcap funds. That's because investors in Quant MF might exit the funds. This will force the fund manager to sell shares.
Good time to have a one time investment in Quant MFs then. Whatever I have read points to this only being an inquiry. The issue is similar to Axis but it is not yet proven. I don't see much fall in the NAVs however if it does then too it will be wise to continue SIP in Quant MFs.
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Old 24th June 2024, 10:12   #4753
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by DigitalOne View Post
The small cap and midcap market indices seem to have taken this news in their stride at least .
The fall will only be in smallcaps held by Quant MF in large quantities, not in the entire index. That's because of poor liquidity. Sales worth Rs. 20cr or Rs. 50cr can significantly affect share prices of smallcaps.

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Originally Posted by VWAllstar View Post
I don't see much fall in the NAVs however if it does then too it will be wise to continue SIP in Quant MFs.
Check NAVs tomorrow. Because today's price action will be reflected tomorrow

I don't think it is a big deal, going by the way Axis story went. I guess it is a regular affair, and only a few get caught. As long as Quant MF longer term performance is not affected, investors will forget about this little incident.

Last edited by SmartCat : 24th June 2024 at 10:20.
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Old 24th June 2024, 10:12   #4754
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

I was surprised but not shocked at the SEBI enquiry on Quant MF. Anybody else had a gut feeling that the returns from them are just too good to possibly border on inside trading?

Just didn't get the courage to invest through them.
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Old 24th June 2024, 10:28   #4755
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Re: The Mutual Funds Thread

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
The fall will only be in smallcaps held by Quant MF in large quantities, not in the entire index. That's because of poor liquidity. Sales worth Rs. 20cr or Rs. 50cr can significantly affect share prices.
That's true. But quant small cap fund has the 3rd biggest AUM, after Nippon and SBI small cap funds, so there could be some effect in the index. But again, quant MF tends to have very focussed portfolio, so the damage may be limited to these particular stocks as you rightly say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
I was surprised but not shocked at the SEBI enquiry on Quant MF. Anybody else had a gut feeling that the returns from them are just too good to possibly border on inside trading?
The inquiry is for Front running and not insider trading. They are different.

ps - I am amused by how they refer to themselves with a small-case 'q' as in 'quant' and not 'Quant'.

Last edited by DigitalOne : 24th June 2024 at 10:29.
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