[ashwin.terminat]

Not one to be a basher generally, but a few things have been conjuring up in my mind lately.

1) We all know cigarettes, gutkha and alcohol have very adverse effects on health. Yet, cigarette companies continue manufacturing them and our Citizens continue lighting up.
Shouldn't it be the moral responsibility of the Government to stop sale of Cigarettes rather than looking at economic benefits?

2) Similarly, in our country, the Highest legal speed limit according to Wikipedia, is 80kmph.
Yet, we have a bike dubbed "Fastest Indian" capable of speeds upto 150kmph, a Pocket Rocket in the R15 capable of 145kmph, the CBR250 with God Knows what top speed, the Apache calling itself "Scarily Fast".
Shouldn't bikes that are capable of speeds above 80kmph be considered illegal?

One reason maybe they use it for Track Racing. Alright, that way wouldn't it be advisable to only allow pre-determined Track Racing Suited vehicles to cross 80kmph on a Race Track only. Similar to what exists on the GT-R wherein the car crosses above the Speed Limiter only after the GPS installed in the car locates the car to be on a Race Track?

[aravind84]

Nothing offensive.. But that's exactly why we are called unity in diversity... That's India.
Good people do exists and bad people also exists.

[DerAlte]

Err... how are all the above that you state to be considered as 'uncertainities'?

Sure, India IS a land of uncertainities, definitely not the only land to be so. Monsoon? Uncertainity. Crops? Uncertainity (increasing less so, bless agricultural science). Bus on time? Uncertainity. Train on time? Uncertainity (increasing less so, bless Laalu-ji, Momota-didi and a host of young intelligent IAS/IRS guys)!!!

One cannot ad infinitum blame the Govt., the companies, the ... Adults are expected to be responsible for themselves, especially if they are educated. The only thing we can blame, if at all, is lack of education. US has speed limits, a damn good enforcement system, ... do they stop powerful vehicles from being designed and produced?

[SDP]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

1) We all know cigarettes, gutkha and alcohol have very adverse effects on health. Yet, cigarette companies continue manufacturing them and our Citizens continue lighting up.
Shouldn't it be the moral responsibility of the Government to stop sale of Cigarette rather than looking at economic benefits?

Sorry, but have to disagree here. Banning something does not make it go away, it just goes underground. A lot of countries are actually going the other way around, legalizing all sorts of things including prostitution and betting.

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Err... how are all the above that you state to be considered as 'uncertainities'?

Sure, India IS a land of uncertainities, definitely not the only land to be so. Monsoon? Uncertainity. Crops? Uncertainity (increasing less so, bless agricultural science). Bus on time? Uncertainity. Train on time? Uncertainity (increasing less so, bless Laalu-ji, Momota-didi and a host of young intelligent IAS/IRS guys)!!!

One cannot ad infinitum blame the Govt., the companies, the ... Adults are expected to be responsible for themselves, especially if they are educated. The only thing we can blame, if at all, is lack of education. US has speed limits, a damn good enforcement system, ... do they stop powerful vehicles from being designed and produced?

Sorry, my bad. Got the error in nomenclature the moment I tried and linked the two together. Hope the new title is a tad more appropriate!
But isn't empowering someone to do something illegal wrong by itself?

Originally Posted by SDP

Sorry, but have to disagree here. Banning something does not make it go away, it just goes underground. A lot of countries are actually going the other way around, legalizing all sorts of things including prostitution and betting.

Your welcome to post your opinions. No need to apologize.
I started this thread not expecting appreciation, but to get different points of view and have a healthy debate. Helps widen our perspective!
Making it go underground will atleast prevent it from being as widespread, yes? And increased costs involved in underground methods means fewer people who can afford it.

Originally Posted by aravind84

Nothing offensive.. But that's exactly why we are called unity in diversity... That's India.
Good people do exists and bad people also exists.

No offense taken!
But the same thing, if we didn't have cigarettes in the first place, people couldn't have smoked. Aren't people being provided with the facilities to be good/bad people?

[rohanjf]

Powerful bikes: high top speed also means good pick up, which is essential for overtaking. Imagine a single lane road with a speed limit of 60 kmph. A truck is going steadily at 50 kmph. But I want to go at 60. The road is straight and there is no oncoming traffic. Yet I don't want to overtake at 60 kmph, because that would take an awefully long time. I accelerate and overtake at 80 kmph and once I have a sufficient lead, I gradually get down to the speed limit.

Cigarettes (on a funny note): I smoke about 10 cigarettes in a year, at times when I am stressed. I don't want the government to take away the fun.

[SirAlec]

Will not comment on the second part although prohibition hardly works. So whats the hard in collecting revenue from it. I have two example.

1. Gujarat. Ideologically Gujarat is Gandhi's birthplace and hence its dubbed a dry state. But everybody knows the situation in Gujarat. Its easy to get a liquor in Gujarat as in any state. And where in India can you find a bottle delivered to your place like a pizza. Many individual earns from illegal liquor import into Gujarat. So its a huge revenue loss to Government.

2. As soon as Gehlot took over Rajasthan. In his infinite wisdom he banned liquor sale after 8 P.m. Which is ludicrous, as now liquor shop owner and illegal operator is having a ball. Bottles are available alright after 8pm. but at double the cost.

It never worked in America in the 30s and it will never work in any part of the world. Prohibition was in some certain way, the reason for all the Gang buildup, Mafias and subsequently depression in America.

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

Powerful bikes: high top speed also means good pick up, which is essential for overtaking. Imagine a single lane road with a speed limit of 60 kmph. A truck is going steadily at 50 kmph. But I want to go at 60. The road is straight and there is no oncoming traffic. Yet I don't want to overtake at 60 kmph, because that would take an awefully long time. I accelerate and overtake at 80 kmph and once I have a sufficient lead, I gradually get down to the speed limit.

Cigarettes (on a funny note): I smoke about 10 cigarettes in a year, at times when I am stressed. I don't want the government to take away the fun.

Alright, taking your point into due consideration.
You're traveling at 60kmph and the trucker at 50kmph.
Average Velocity=10kmph and in metres per second 10*5/18=2.77m/s
Lets consider a truck as around 15m long(50 feet), you should take <6 seconds to get past him. Isn't THAT long right?
Forgive me for sounding like a complete idiot, but by going beyond 60kmph when that is the limit is technically breaking rules right?

And about your smoking, well what can I say, it's a personal choice. But can't there be less harmful methods of destressing?
10 is not completely harmless, yes?
According to this article,
http://www.nutri.com/index.cfm?fusea..._about_smoking
One cigarette is known to bring down life expectancy by 12-14 minutes.

Originally Posted by SirAlec

1. Gujarat. Ideologically Gujarat is Gandhi's birthplace and hence its dubbed a dry state. But everybody knows the situation in Gujarat. Its easy to get a liquor in Gujarat as in any state. And where in India can you find a bottle delivered to your place like a pizza. Many individual earns from illegal liquor import into Gujarat. So its a huge revenue loss to Government.


2. As soon as Gehlot took over Rajasthan. In his infinite wisdom he banned liquor sale after 8 P.m. Which is ludicrous, as now liquor shop owner and illegal operator is having a ball. Bottles are available alright after 8pm. but at double the cost.

Revenue doesn't stem from earnings on illegal products my friend.
But I get your point, but if it was legal, more people would have access to it right? Even if one person is scared of getting caught for buying it, you have one less person smoking/drinking.

Originally Posted by SirAlec

It never worked in America in the 30s and it will never work in any part of the world. Prohibition was in some certain way, the reason for all the Gang buildup, Mafias and subsequently depression in America.

May not have in America, but has worked in our own country. Not in a city, but rather in a small little village. And going by what I read, doesn't seem like they're slipping into depression. Rather, they look to be doing better than most of our cities. May not be in terms of lavish lifestyle, but in the quality of it.

Tobacco, Liquor not sold in Anna Hazare's Village

[Mik]

Regarding cigarettes/beedi/alcohol
Firstly, it provides guilt free thousands of crores of taxes to the government. Why would the government kill the golden geese.
In all colleges in India you will get marijuana and almost all the sages carry it with them. This, when its completely banned. Illegal distribution will never be a problem.
Secondly, its a personal choice to have these products. Its not as if these things kill instantly. Also, its not as if every smoker is dying a horrible death at the age of 40. Smoking ganja/pot/hukkah are practices which have been going on for centuries. Even a constant exposure to high sugar/high fat food can be fatal (what with diabetes being one of the biggest killers) The choice should be left to the consumer.

About speed limit, have you used bikes just as an example or have you singled them out ?
If the thought is limited just to bikes then, well, why should cars be going above 90kmph(the speed limit on NH8) or rather - why not have all cars speed limited to 90kmph.
As has been pointed out, its nice to have power on the tap, even if you are doing 60kmph. With some level of practice and with awareness, its possible to maintain close to triple digit speeds on certain bikes and cars comfortably. I believe that the issue is not about having archaic speed limits - its about having a very very poor, corrupt and porous licensing mechanism in our country which lets loose crazy drivers.

[suhaas307]

I can't seem to quite understand this.

Banning isn't 'the way forward'. What it does is cause rebellion and increase crimes. Just because smoking is bad for health, doesn't mean it should be banned. I mean, what are we? Kids? Do we need that much policing in our lives? Smoking is frowned upon everywhere, but half the world still lights up every day. It's a matter of making choices and being responsible. If you're ready to take responsibility for your actions, and curb, rather than create, the problems would be far less. We surely can be self-disciplined, right? We are, after all, civilized human-beings. Do we need bans to tell us what's right and what's wrong?

Education and common sense can go a long way in improving standard of living. As long as you know how to control yourself and respect your surroundings, you should be fine.

In France, it is illegal to drive your car beyond the speed-limit and one can get fined heavily or even tried in court, and yet, Bugatti (originally a French company) builds the fastest production car in the World. Now that's a paradox.

The world is not a safe place. It's big, bad and dangerous. You can either 'choose' to stay away, or 'choose' to get tangled in the web.

[Rahulkool]

I feel banning curruption, theft, robbery, bribes, dowry etc will make more sense than the things mentioned by OP, provided banning can stop anything. IMO i dont see purpose of this thread. No offence to anyone.

[carwatcher]

If at all anything to be banned in this world, the first thing comes to my mind is aerated drinks (pepsi, coke, etc.) I want to know any single health benefit trom them. Yet whole world is drinking them. Atleast tobacco gives you kick and helps in concentration, destressing, etc. But comm'on what is good in colas. They are the biggest symbol of paradoxes.

[rohanjf]

Ok, I am not arguing against or for cigarettes since it is a personal choice. I do use other ways of destressing, such as playing my guitars (can't do that at night though ;-) ).

Here is another paradox: if your insurance has already expired, they ask you to drive down your vehicle to their office for renewal. And driving such a vehicle is illegal. Will they for it if the vehivle crashes?
Of course, you have to renew before expiry, but what if you are away from home for long? Online renewal is not an option for certain people.

[vb-saan]

Good discussion. But is banning a solution?
1) Cigarettes, alcohol etc. do create health hazards, stopping sale completely in not going to help anyway – for money for the black markets. Maybe an option is increase the taxes on these items. And yes, ban smoking in public places, and impose heavy fines for defaulters. And that’s more revenue for the state as well.
2) I completely don’t understand the second point. Countries with higher concentration of fast cars and higher speed limit (or no speed limit) have lesser accident fatalities than our country.

Originally Posted by SDP

A lot of countries are actually going the other way around, legalizing all sorts of things including prostitution and betting.

Completely agree with that. Probably that’s a solution. Infact I find it quite absurd when I see mineral water or music cds advts. to promote alcohol brands. As if the public are so naïve to know what the promotion is for.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

I feel banning curruption, theft, robbery, bribes, dowry etc will make more sense than the things mentioned by OP, provided banning can stop anything. IMO i dont see purpose of this thread. No offence to anyone.

Isnt corruption, theft etc already banned in the sense that they are illegal?

Anyway, smoking, drinking etc are more of a moral issue and hence highly subjective, and i dont think its the government's job to take a moral stand on its citizens.

I agree that going by the opening post, there is not much purpose to this thread, unless people post some examples of paradoxes like rohanjf did regarding insurance.