[Tats07]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I am referring to Core Software engineering people (technical) and not people working in Admin, finance, BMS, Security who are indirectly working for a software concern.

I wasnt referring to admin or finance people either. An IT org has other functions which are part of core business, but those functions are not core s/w engg. For e.g. I'm a subject matter expert in Telecom IT applications, and mostly engaged with the customer in consulting capacity. I dont come from a development background either. But my function is critical to the company's business, and it is not an indirect engagement. Does that make me a IT joe? Not as per my definition. :-)

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by Tats07

I wasnt referring to admin or finance people either. An IT org has other functions which are part of core business, but those functions are not core s/w engg. For e.g. I'm a subject matter expert in Telecom IT applications, and mostly engaged with the customer in consulting capacity. I dont come from a development background either. But my function is critical to the company's business, and it is not an indirect engagement. Does that make me a IT joe? Not as per my definition. :-)

Well, lets say you are applying for a passport. When you go to the police station for verification, you are expected to pay some "fees". for the person who is intended at cheating you, he does not care whether you are a developer, tester or Business analyst. But when you mention you are in Admin / Security / BMs, the fleecing attitude is less.

The average common man cannot distinguish between a developer and a tester but can distinguish between a software engineering and an administrative executive. This trick has worked at most places

Dialogue goes something like this -

3rd person: Where are you workng
Me: X company

3rd person: Oh software aa ??
Me: No I am in the admin wing

3rd person: You are paid well right
Me: No. you know what they pay Admin people. Only software engineers are paid high. I am just an admin executive.

3rd person: Oh Ok. Fine

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

3rd person: Oh software aa ??
Me: No I am in the admin wing

In my case most of the people ask...student aaa?
and I answer...yeah...studentu!!

that's better than saying IT joe/donkey whatever you call...isn't it?

It is correct, even in local veg market there is a different rate for IT "look" people and others!

[kousik]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

3rd person: You are paid well right
Me: No. you know what they pay Admin people. Only software engineers are paid high. ...

Ouch, this compounds the problem further. It confirms the 3rd person's (mis)belief even more.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by kousik

Ouch, this compounds the problem further. It confirms the 3rd person's (mis)belief even more.

+1 to that.

There is a general misconception with people that Software engineers are paid more. In fact with my salary its just sufficient to run a decent life.

One big problem in software is that you cannot make any black money since all income is taxed at source. All money is white money. With skyrocketing prices, increase in taxes, inflation, increase in fuel price, even if we get appraisal at 10% (average) it does not suffice much. the hike amount gets absorbed in the inflation. So theoriticaly I am at the same place where i was 5 years back w.r.t lifestyle.

It is "assumed" that even people in admin and other auxillary functions are paid more but that is not the case. exmaple A software tester with 5+ years will be paid around 9 lacs as of today but an admin with 5+ years is paid around 4-5 lacs only at the max.

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

+1 to that.


One big problem in software is that you cannot make any black money since all income is taxed at source. All money is white money. With skyrocketing prices, increase in taxes, inflation, increase in fuel price, even if we get appraisal at 10% (average) it does not suffice much. the hike amount gets absorbed in the inflation. x.

Sorry for getting little off topic but not making 'black money' is a big problem ?
That is a shocking statement in a public forum.

I personally believe the general system (jobs,administrations etc) should be as clean and systematic as it is in the IT industry. That can surely make life more balanced and our country a better place to live in.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by Turbokick

Sorry for getting little off topic but not making 'black money' is a big problem ?
That is a shocking statement in a public forum.

I personally believe the general system (jobs,administrations etc) should be as clean and systematic as it is in the IT industry. That can surely make life more balanced and our country a better place to live in.

My mention was that if someone had black money, he would care 2 hoots for inflation and rise in prices. It does not matter to him.

In IT, since we can get only white money, inflation is so high that growth sees a downward trend. So even if you are in IT and paid more, it really does not translate to disposable income.

talking about the people who have black money, Inflation would least bother them as they can always declare thier income less and make more black money to counter inflation. This is NOT possible in IT.

I do not intend to provide ways to make black money. It was just a thought comparing pure white money makers and black money makers.

Even in some leading IT companies, Admin folks are paid a "cut" from all service providers like cafeteria, transport, housekeeping etc, which is nothing but black money. In my previous company pathetic transport service and unpalatable food was provided when all complaints raised to admin, the team kept mum.

Software engineers are exploited by 3rd parties, whereas Admin folks are not. Software Engineers cannot make any black money, compared to others. So it does not really mean that software engineers are able to pay more.

[Turbokick]

I sincerely believe if one is the part of a civilised organisation or society, life style is definitely on the better side. I am not sure about the city you belong to but Bangalore has been rated the best city to live in ( India) and that is because it is a very disciplined and systematic place. With a greater fraction of people belonging to IT field, the regulatory taxes,norms and other developments are hardly misutilized leading to the overall development of the city and its dwellers.

I would be proud of leading a neat and white collared life with some adjustment than caring for those who earn more than me through illegal ways. That is because in the long run I will be the one who would be benefitted.

P.S. I don't belong to the IT field and I work in an environment where scope black money is immense yet life is never that settled.
So I feel like I know the difference

[ashis89]

I am new to the IT industry(2 months into my 1st job) and i already hate saying that i work for X company. Even in office,my ID card remains in my pocket.

My reasons are quite similar. Apart from getting cheated/over charged several times, I have faced several other problems.

-The moment I tell 'locals' that I am an IT guy,they know that I am an 'outsider' and start making their own rules.

-I get drowned in the sea of IT guys and feel the lack of indivisuality(no offence to any one).

-Young guys like me try to flaunt their ID cards and I bow away from them by walking without any ID.


PS: My posting is at Bangalore and I will join their in a month's time after my training. I am already getting bad reviews. Help!!!!

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by ashis89

I am new to the IT industry(2 months into my 1st job) and i already hate saying that i work for X company. Even in office,my ID card remains in my pocket.

My reasons are quite similar. Apart from getting cheated/over charged several times, I have faced several other problems.

-The moment I tell 'locals' that I am an IT guy,they know that I am an 'outsider' and start making their own rules.

-I get drowned in the sea of IT guys and feel the lack of indivisuality(no offence to any one).

-Young guys like me try to flaunt their ID cards and I bow away from them by walking without any ID.

PS: My posting is at Bangalore and I will join their in a month's time after my training. I am already getting bad reviews. Help!!!!

The best out of this is to tell that you are working with Admin Team. Even if you say finance, people may ask you favours like IT filing, tax planning etc. If you say you are in Admin, no one will expect any favours.

My common excuse is that i say that i am in "housekeeping" wing of admin in X software company.

[tsk1979]

I remember this incident way back in 2002. I was on MG road, coming back from a friends house.
A couple of cops on bike stop me. Start checking DL, papers, and commenting on some headlight issue. On seeing my out of state DL, one of them asks in broken hindi "Software engineer aah? Where do you work?". I replied "Lay off ho gaya, job searching".
They let me go without any further questions or checks

[Samurai]

In the 90s I had the typical IT look, but we were not called IT guys for Techies then. Then we were actually respected. I still recall how a sub-inspector at trinity circle let me go without a fine after he heard I am an engineer. That year was 1992 and I had jumped a red signal. When I came back to Bangalore in 2004, the table had turned around totally. The term IT guy or techie was in, and most of them walked around with ID cards even within apartment complex and malls. And they were the target of every kind of soft looting.

But I had a blessing. I lost my hair and lost my IT looks. And I can speak with chaste Bangalore accent Kannada, so I rarely get the typical IT treatment.

[condor]

As people working in the IT field, we know the pressures we face at work. We may get fair salaries, but we pay tax on it, and yet bear the brunt of rising prices. Prices that rise because people (often the ones with extra money) have money to spend.

Personally, I avoid wearing /showing anything that shows which company I work for. Once I am out of the office building/campus, the ID badge stays in the bag. Visiting cards are not required, so I dont carry any. Not that I dont like the company, I just want to avoid any attention it can create. I do get some company branded merchandise, but I normally use these as gifts. Even buy it from the company store when I want to gift something.

And like Samurai said, Kannada /local language helps. I speak in Kannada where ever I can - and quite often surprise people a little. Surprise in the sense that they are expecting me to speak in English, but I dont.

[IronH4WK]

i've been in the IT industry for 14 odd years (dev+sup); the last 13 being in Bangalore.

in the mid and late 90s only the MNCs used to have 'em lanyards handed out to their employees and it was a big thing back then to have one of these hanging around your neck (nowadays even kindergarten kids have these). people wearing these used to be respected and envied. i have had instances where when caught by the cops they would let me go seeing the company ID badge i was wearing. while i've enjoyed these 'perks', i've also paid a price for the same. higher rents, cheated by the local vendors/auto drivers (even for a distance of 2km they would charge anything between 50-100/-).

to make things worse i can't speak the local language (except for a few words i can put together to form a crooked sentence). many a times people have even made it evident in conversations that the problems in city are attributed to these 'outsiders' working in 'IT' who have polluted Bangalore beautiful environment (i'm a Bangalorean, but not from Bangalore).

however, like someone has mentioned above, it's not just the IT folks who get cheated/bullied/fleeced. anyone who fits the bill of well-to-do/outsider/non-kannada speaker will get fleeced.

and i totally agree with condor: ze IT folks don't get paid for doing nothing; we've to slog our butts off to earn what we earn and then pay taxes

[anilisanil]

The only place where ITs were (or is it still are) immensely respected was (is) Mysore. I was riding my bike w/o any proper NOC etc (due to plain ignorance) in Mysore(2005)and I met with this accident as the lady ahead of me decided to turn right and I ended up scratching the road!

Mamu comes to me asks student? I said no working. He asked me where, I revealed. He asks my license, looks at me intently and asks me to leave. I looked at the lady who was still trying to get up. He just told me that he would take care of it and I left.

But now, I recently was in search for a house and my wife works too. The conversation went on like this:

Me: What is the rent?
LL: Where do you work?
Me: so and so.
LL: Family?
Me: Yes
LL: Wife works?
Me: Yes!
LL: Rent is 15K (my friend stays in that society pays 11k) and advance of 75000.
Me: Oh that's great, thank you very much!

Real estate in Pune sucks. Every one, literally everyone here is a real estate agent and you would not get a single place on rent if you do not go by agent, but that is a different rant, though!