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Old 17th October 2022, 10:16   #6106
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

Ghaziabad bans pit bull, Rottweiler, and Dogo Argentino as pet dogs

https://indianexpress.com/article/ci...-dogs-8211733/

While I agree that these breeds can be dangerous, many other breeds, including German Shepherds, Dobermanns, etc. can be equally lethal. They can be good pets if their owners train and socialise them well. A blanket ban is not the solution. Irresponsible owners need to be taken to task and punishment meted out should be exemplary.
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Old 17th October 2022, 10:20   #6107
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Ghaziabad bans pit bull, Rottweiler, and Dogo Argentino as pet dogs

[.
Usual Indian draconian blanket Fiats.
No proper thought.
Laws made by the unqualified and imposed on the unprotesting multitude.
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Old 17th October 2022, 13:18   #6108
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

A Street Dog In Chennai

A couple of friends from UK were here in India for tourism and medical treatment recently.

The guy has a soft heart for anything with fur, it seems, and cannot keep his hands off them. All of us know that the very last thing that India is, is a petting zoo: street dogs, monkeys etc should be kept at some distance and wildlife should be left... wild.

Of course, I am not speaking of those who live here and take care of their local animals: that is a good service that they are doing. But they are experienced with the street dogs, and know them, and the risks.

Anyway, it is a sad story, because these people became very emotionally involved with a street dog and her pups near their guest house. They were unfortunate witnesses to the death of one of the pups, cruelly run down by a speeding biker who doesn't deserve to be called human.

Whilst our friends went on tour, we were prevailed upon to see if anything could be done to safeguard these dogs. We went to a very reputable local shelter and one of the young vets there took time to explain the facts of life to us, some of which I had not fully understood. There are 4.5 lakh dogs on the streets of Chennai. She told us, bluntly but kindly, that they were full to overflowing anyway, but, frankly, a dog has a longer life expectancy on the street than in a shelter. I had heard ill of one such place, and she said, they are not bad people, but the overcrowding causes illness to spread.

450,000 street dogs! Anyway, about this one...

She looks to me more like an abandoned dog than a street-bred dog. I am no dog expert, but guess that she is 50% Alsation (GSD). She doesn't quite have the look in the eyes of a street dog either.

She is living around Yes Bank, near to the beach, Besant Nagar. There is a local family who are giving her some care, but they already have dogs and don't feel able to adopt her. When I last heard, she had two surviving pups.

If anybody, perhaps someone in that area, is interested, the guest-house guys (yellow shirts) at back of Yes Bank would be able to point out the house of the carers.

Me? No... I'm a cat man.

Team-BHPians and their Pets-img20220930wa0045a.jpg

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 17th October 2022 at 13:19.
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Old 17th October 2022, 14:55   #6109
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

I have a pipe dream. That Mrs Nita Ambani has Reliance Foundation set up a country wide vaccination & neutering program for stray cats, dogs & cattle. Involving local volunteers & para-vets and block level, panchayat level, city level camps.

This turns out to be a huge employment generation program and manages to put India on the world map as a leader in compassion & urban regeneration.

Also she launches an adoption program where anyone can pay a token and get a vaccinated, neutered healthy desi mutt pet. Even going so far to ship them abroad. The catch line is "your pet is unique, just like you". Being seen with a mutt is cool and we slowly turn away from buying designer breeds.

In 10 years all strays are off the streets and we are a much more empathetic society.

And then I wake up.
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Old 17th October 2022, 15:57   #6110
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

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Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
Even going so far to ship them abroad. The catch line is "your pet is unique, just like you". Being seen with a mutt is cool and we slowly turn away from buying designer breeds.

In 10 years all strays are off the streets and we are a much more empathetic society.

And then I wake up.
Do we really know that street dogs are happier in our homes than on the streets? I have this feeling that contrary to what we think we are not rescuing a dog from the street. You are stealing away his freedom, liberty and social life. My dog is the happiest when I take him for a walk on the road. Inside the concrete walls he loses the energy and sleeps most of the time. I feel guilty when I see that. We humans always think that other species need our help and depend on us for survival.
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Old 17th October 2022, 16:30   #6111
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We humans always think that other species need our help and depend on us for survival.
Hello, stray dogs are not feral or wild. They are domesticated dogs who do not get a home.

80% of street pups die in the first 6 months. 90% of strays do not live beyond 6 years on the streets.

Your dog and also mine when she was alive love to go and walk because that's a roadtrip for them. Every smell is a new destination. But they come back safe home and have a place to eat, have medicines and sleep without being killed by the hundreds of natural and man made issues.

A pet dog will not survive a week in the streets in most cases. Funny huh? Because freedom and all that?

Beyond this, I cannot reply more with details because they would be too graphic. The injuries and suffering I have seen, I wish for no one else to see.

But I chickened out of active rescues and helped only with money. Think about the hardened animal lovers who see deaths and cruelty every day and have to turn away hundreds of cases because they're overbooked, have no funds, have simply no way to help.
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Old 17th October 2022, 16:56   #6112
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

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Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
Funny huh? Because freedom and all that?

Beyond this, I cannot reply more with details because they would be too graphic. The injuries and suffering I have seen, I wish for no one else to see.

But I chickened out of active rescues and helped only with money. Think about the hardened animal lovers who see deaths and cruelty every day and have to turn away hundreds of cases because they're overbooked, have no funds, have simply no way to help.
Don't get me wrong, I just wanted to put forward a contrarian perspective. Indian street dogs are free will by nature. So they love freedom the most is what I feel.

I am aware of the sufferings of street dogs and the survival rate of puppies given birth on streets. But I feel that is the nature's way of taking care of overbreeding. Why else they give birth to half a dozen in one go?

I am sensitive to sufferings of all animals not only dogs, that is why I turned fully vegetarian 25 years back. Can we kill some species for food and try to rescue some others? I feel they all will need rescuing if we go by the above logic.

Again I am not against adoption of street dogs, but I feel that is not a favor we are doing to them. A dog if it could speak may tell you that you are stealing his free will and companionships for free food, medicine and shelter.
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Old 17th October 2022, 17:01   #6113
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Do we really know that street dogs are happier in our homes than on the streets?
...
We humans always think that other species need our help and depend on us for survival.
Remember all dogs are domesticated animals (both strays & pets); their long-distance cousins, the wolves are still surviving in the wild. We have made our city surroundings such that strays in cities depend on the humans. If we aren't feeding them, they scourage our garbage for food. In cities, we have removed options for their natural instincts to kick-in for food options ages ago.

A stray/feral cat still has better options in the cities because it still is able to hunt birds, squirrels, and other smaller animals (and they do). Their evolution has not lost that ability.


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Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
80% of street pups die in the first 6 months. 90% of strays do not live beyond 6 years on the streets.
Unfortunately, (on a realistic not cruel note) that's a good thing. Our cities will not be able to handle a higher % of strays surviving. Neutering stray programs is still quite unsucessful.

Btw I agree with your post completely (mirrors my situation to quite an extent).
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Old 17th October 2022, 18:54   #6114
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

Hi poloman, developed countries do not have strays. Or there are countries like Turkey where it is socially ingrained to adopt strays in a locality and care for them. They are generally well fed and cared for. They have their food, medicines and freedom

On the topic of favor. Are we doing them a favor or are they doing us one?
It is scientifically proven that being close to pets actually is beneficial in many ways for us.

Let's not go to the ethical debate of eating some kinds of meat vs keeping as pet some other kind of meat, please. Even though I see the merit in your argument.

But right now, we are talking about how stray population can be reduced and controlled. The only ethical way with lowest suffering is to catch, spay / neuter and release. Complemented by adoption from the streets. This needs funds and scale that the government simply cannot do or is unwilling to do. Hence we need social NGOs and foundations to step in. The ones who work in this field know how thankless and unrewarding it is. It needs funds, manpower and a mindset change.

---------

Hi ninjatalli, yes I agree. But its always sad to see litters in the winter and dead by monsoon. Parvo, distemper, getting run over, wounds that eat them alive but can be treated with a Rs 10 ivermectin tablet. You know what I mean. No animal deserves to go that way.


Anyway, I am sorry if I came across too strong and derailed the thread. Apologies.

Last edited by digitalnirvana : 17th October 2022 at 19:04.
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Old 17th October 2022, 18:59   #6115
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

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... A dog if it could speak may tell you that you are stealing his free will and companionships for free food, medicine and shelter.
Absolutely it can and will speak! The dog that is not pleased with this deal will be wining at the door, impossible to control, trying to escape. The dog that is pleased will be lying happily looking forward to its next meal --- and enjoying going out for that walk.


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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
A stray/feral cat still has better options in the cities because it still is able to hunt birds, squirrels, and other smaller animals (and they do). Their evolution has not lost that ability.
Street dogs do hunt. Cats for one thing. I know that only too well
Quote:
Unfortunately, (on a realistic not cruel note) that's a good thing. Our cities will not be able to handle a higher % of strays surviving. Neutering stray programs is still quite unsucessful.
The vet I spoke to told me that a hypothetical forest dog might live a couple of years. Street dogs live longer because of foraging and because of the people that look after them. She told me that perhaps two out of four street pups may survive.

Neutering programs? I have never even seen it done here, except by some individuals who care about the street animals.
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Old 17th October 2022, 19:49   #6116
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Street dogs do hunt. Cats for one thing. I know that only too well
Unfortunately, we do too (less than 6 months ago). But I believe it's more from territorial instincts than hunger instincts as per my limited understanding. I haven't seen or heard of dogs (killing &) eating dead cats on our streets (kittens yes, cats no); and I believe humans are to blame for that. They can find food much easier (through our garbage) than having to kill other animals (including cats).

Quote:
The vet I spoke to told me that a hypothetical forest dog might live a couple of years.
Interesting. I was told stray cats' average life period on our streets is 2 years. Guess that's a common assumption made by most vets in India or maybe they are all quoting some common study.

Quote:
Neutering programs? I have never even seen it done here, except by some individuals who care about the street animals.
Hence the point I made of the un-successfulness of such programs. Every municipal city has some funds allocated to it but it never gets utilized. I was made aware of it when we adopted a stray puppy nearly a decade ago from Blue Cross, Velachery (Chennai). Not sure if they are still doing so currently. Similarly back in 2020, a cat had given birth to a litter next door in Mumbai. We reached out for support to get it and the other cats neutered locally and were given contact numbers of NGOs who (apparently) were funded by the local government but they refused to do anything citing Covid restrictions.

Edit: Must say I have only heard from others about the aforementioned funds. No proof or first-hand information.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 17th October 2022 at 19:51.
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Old 17th October 2022, 20:40   #6117
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Re: Team-BHPians and their Pets

Sometimes I wonder how our population will be controlled. What if someone higher than us as a species decide that enough is enough and work out a plan to bring our numbers under control? I wonder how we would react to that. Not to say that the stray dog population shouldn’t be controlled.

But it was our goddamn mistake to begin with like everything else!
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Old 17th October 2022, 21:23   #6118
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Unfortunately, we do too (less than 6 months ago). But I believe it's more from territorial instincts than hunger instincts as per my limited understanding. I haven't seen or heard of dogs (killing &) eating dead cats on our streets (kittens yes, cats no); and I believe humans are to blame for that. They can find food much easier (through our garbage) than having to kill other animals (including cats).
I am afraid that they kill the cats in much the same spirit as my cat kills smaller creatures. Just hunting/fun instinct. toss it around and tear it up until it doesn't move any longer. Any cat (of any size) on our street at night is probably going to be dead. I don't think it is size that gives the adult cats any immunity, just that some of them have learned the hard way to be streetsmart.

Yes, I am admitting that this "cruel" behaviour is shown by many, not just the dogs. Of course, I have cats: I do take sides. I take sides with the crows that I feed, also, and they too can be very unpleasant.

Quote:
We reached out for support to get it and the other cats neutered locally and were given contact numbers of NGOs who (apparently) were funded by the local government but they refused to do anything citing Covid restrictions.
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Old 17th October 2022, 21:36   #6119
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Of course, I have cats: I do take sides. I take sides with the crows that I feed, also, and they too can be very unpleasant.
Lol - uncanny choice of animals to show sympathy to (co-incidence?). I have had "interactions" with crows too. Saved two in the past and both flew away once they regained back their health.
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Old 18th October 2022, 03:36   #6120
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Lol - uncanny choice of animals to show sympathy to (co-incidence?).
It is just the way it worked out. I got introduced to feeding the crows daily, and it became a habit. I do not believe that they are my ancestors! We make them a daily rice+egg mix, rather than giving them leftovers. I smooth it out onto a big round plate for them to eat off. As this takes a minute or two, I am actually spending time with them while they wait, not just putting something down and leaving it. I "entertain" at least ten, sometimes 20-30, every day.

Thankfully, the cats know to leave them alone. Actually, only one of my cats is a murderer. This is much regretted, as we used to attract quite a few small birds to the garden.
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