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Old 27th June 2018, 09:12   #271
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Need your advice guys.

I rented an apartment recently and its owned by an octogenarian. Due to his age, he used a team of lawyers to negotiate and draw up the rental agreement. The agreement is between the apartment owner and I; and the legal firm is no where in the flow. I am concerned because, the lawyers were quite firm, unwilling and inflexible with very simple terms that I wanted included in the agreement.

1. Apartment owner does not use the internet; no email address or whatsapp - How do I deliver a legally acceptable notice when I want to terminate the agreement ?
2. The agreement does not say, within how much time the apartment owner needs to return the deposit. How do I get around this ?
3. In a situation where either the lessee or lessor passes away, who is legally allowed to take their place ?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:16   #272
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Originally Posted by vinu_h View Post
Need your advice guys.

I rented an apartment recently and its owned by an octogenarian. Due to his age, he used a team of lawyers to negotiate and draw up the rental agreement. The agreement is between the apartment owner and I; and the legal firm is no where in the flow. I am concerned because, the lawyers were quite firm, unwilling and inflexible with very simple terms that I wanted included in the agreement.

1. Apartment owner does not use the internet; no email address or whatsapp - How do I deliver a legally acceptable notice when I want to terminate the agreement ?
2. The agreement does not say, within how much time the apartment owner needs to return the deposit. How do I get around this ?
3. In a situation where either the lessee or lessor passes away, who is legally allowed to take their place ?

Thanks in advance.
1) Notice of termination can be issued in the form of a formal letter by Registered Post Acknowledgment Due. It's the most preferred method.

2) You will have to negotiate harder to include this clause. It's in your best interest that such a clause is incorporated.

3) Usually, the legal representative i.e. the lessee / Leslie's successor will have to step into the shoes of the deceased.

Will the lease be registered?
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Old 27th June 2018, 11:24   #273
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1) Notice of termination can be issued in the form of a formal letter by Registered Post Acknowledgment Due. It's the most preferred method.

2) You will have to negotiate harder to include this clause. It's in your best interest that such a clause is incorporated.

3) Usually, the legal representative i.e. the lessee / Leslie's successor will have to step into the shoes of the deceased.

Will the lease be registered?
Thanks Suhas.

Since I was relocating and in a hurry, I made the mistake of occupying the house before the rental agreement was made.

Will recheck on the deposit portion. Those lawyers were very argumentative and inflexible. Can we amend the agreement now ?

Since the agreement is for 11 months, we did it on a INR 500 stamp paper. I understand that registration is only required if the agreement is beyond 11 months.
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Old 27th June 2018, 12:29   #274
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Originally Posted by vinu_h View Post
Thanks Suhas.

Since I was relocating and in a hurry, I made the mistake of occupying the house before the rental agreement was made.

Will recheck on the deposit portion. Those lawyers were very argumentative and inflexible. Can we amend the agreement now ?

Since the agreement is for 11 months, we did it on a INR 500 stamp paper. I understand that registration is only required if the agreement is beyond 11 months.
Strictly speaking, since it is not a registered rental agreement, it cannot be enforced in the Court of law. However, you are still advised to negotiate and include the clause.

There are a few ways to go about this, one is to execute a supplementary agreement and ensure that the clause is incorporated. The other is to modify the agreement by way of an amendment. Both will have to be executed by the parties to the agreement.

You are advised to negotiate with them to include the clause titled "interest free refundable security deposit".
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Old 27th June 2018, 12:57   #275
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Originally Posted by vinu_h View Post
Thanks Suhas.

Since I was relocating and in a hurry, I made the mistake of occupying the house before the rental agreement was made.

Will recheck on the deposit portion. Those lawyers were very argumentative and inflexible. Can we amend the agreement now ?

Since the agreement is for 11 months, we did it on a INR 500 stamp paper. I understand that registration is only required if the agreement is beyond 11 months.
Vinu, registration of a leave and license/lease agreement for 11 months is not mandatory in all states in India (exceptions being Maharashtra etc).

Regarding refund of security deposit, it is customarily refunded by the Licensor/Lessor with the handover of the premises by the Licensee/Lessee. You can enter into an amendment agreement (of the original agreement) incorporating this clause. Lawyers are mostly inflexible (I am a lawyer) till the time you let them know that this is a deal-breaker. Since this is a fair ask, you should be able to negotiate this. Remember that you will have to bear the stamp duty on the amendment agreement as well.

Regarding death of either party, since the agreement has been drafted by a law firm, I assume that the name clause provides for language wherein the party includes their successors and assigns/heirs, executors and administrators.

Best,
Enigmatic

Last edited by Enigmatic : 27th June 2018 at 12:58.
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Old 27th June 2018, 14:27   #276
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Strictly speaking, since it is not a registered rental agreement, it cannot be enforced in the Court of law.
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Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
Vinu, registration of a leave and license/lease agreement for 11 months is not mandatory in all states in India (exceptions being Maharashtra etc).

Regarding refund of security deposit, it is customarily refunded by the Licensor/Lessor with the handover of the premises by the Licensee/Lessee. You can enter into an amendment agreement (of the original agreement) incorporating this clause. Lawyers are mostly inflexible (I am a lawyer) till the time you let them know that this is a deal-breaker. Since this is a fair ask, you should be able to negotiate this. Remember that you will have to bear the stamp duty on the amendment agreement as well.

Regarding death of either party, since the agreement has been drafted by a law firm, I assume that the name clause provides for language wherein the party includes their successors and assigns/heirs, executors and administrators.

Best,
Enigmatic
Thank you Suhas and Enimgatic.

Suhas - What cannot be enforced in case an agreement is not registered ?

I asked for an amendment. To my surprise, they have agreed to add these points and redo at their cost.
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Old 27th June 2018, 17:58   #277
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A cousin in looking for a lawyer for divorce. It's going to be a mutual divorce, so they be looking for 2 lawyers or is one enough? How much would the whole cost of the divorce come to?

Also if someone can recommend one in Bombay's eastern suburbs - that would be great.
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Old 27th June 2018, 18:02   #278
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Asking for a friend who is too afraid to seek help.

My friend is working in a company (Indian Co) based out of New Delhi, which has more than 300 employees.
The company's official working hours are 9 AM to 6:30 PM ( 9 and a half hours), 6 days a week, and no ePF or Gratuity benefits.
But as per Shops and Establishment Act, New Delhi, no employer can ask their employees to work more than 9 hours a days and more than 48 hours a week. Also company is breaking ePF rules as well. He wanted to move out of the organization but he's been harassed of legal actions. I want to ask my lawyer friends, what options does he have?
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Old 28th June 2018, 09:34   #279
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Is it okay to have a business registered in my name if I work for a different organization? I want to register a sole proprietorship business in my name with place of operation at my residence. Are there any issues with such an arrangement? I am a total noob to this but my intention is to carry out e-commerce hence it is required to have a GST registration along with other documentation.
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Old 28th June 2018, 10:13   #280
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I purchased an apartment at my home town, a few years ago.
It's been around 6 years since the purchase (and possession), but the owners in that building haven't gone for society formation.
There are lot of issues in the building, which I feel would be solved after society formation.

Now the question is: whose responsibility is to form the society? Is it the occupants or the builder?


I am in favor of forming the society, but the other occupants are reluctant (they don't want the hassles that come with the society formation).
If it's the responsibility of the builder, how can I force him to do so? Legal notice or any other option?
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Old 28th June 2018, 11:59   #281
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Originally Posted by vinu_h View Post
Thank you Suhas and Enimgatic.

Suhas - What cannot be enforced in case an agreement is not registered ?

I asked for an amendment. To my surprise, they have agreed to add these points and redo at their cost.
Generally, the lessee's and lessor's rights accruing out of the terms of an unregistered agreement cannot be enforced in the event of a dispute.

That's good news! I'm glad things worked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshWish View Post
Asking for a friend who is too afraid to seek help.

My friend is working in a company (Indian Co) based out of New Delhi, which has more than 300 employees.
The company's official working hours are 9 AM to 6:30 PM ( 9 and a half hours), 6 days a week, and no ePF or Gratuity benefits.
But as per Shops and Establishment Act, New Delhi, no employer can ask their employees to work more than 9 hours a days and more than 48 hours a week. Also company is breaking ePF rules as well. He wanted to move out of the organization but he's been harassed of legal actions. I want to ask my lawyer friends, what options does he have?
You can start with issuing a legal notice, bringing forth the facts and the allegations against the company. Please get in touch with an advocate who specializes in labour laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Is it okay to have a business registered in my name if I work for a different organization? I want to register a sole proprietorship business in my name with place of operation at my residence. Are there any issues with such an arrangement? I am a total noob to this but my intention is to carry out e-commerce hence it is required to have a GST registration along with other documentation.
Your employer may have addressed to you a letter of employment / engagement and you may have signed an employment contract. These contracts are generally boilerplate and such contracts will have terms such as non-compete clauses, or similar terms precluding you from engaging in other forms of work similar / dissimilar to your scope of work with your company.

Please fish out this document and read the terms. If such clauses are present, you are barred from independent proprietorship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkulkarni.2106 View Post
I purchased an apartment at my home town, a few years ago.
It's been around 6 years since the purchase (and possession), but the owners in that building haven't gone for society formation.
There are lot of issues in the building, which I feel would be solved after society formation.

Now the question is: whose responsibility is to form the society? Is it the occupants or the builder?

I am in favor of forming the society, but the other occupants are reluctant (they don't want the hassles that come with the society formation).
If it's the responsibility of the builder, how can I force him to do so? Legal notice or any other option?
The responsibility to form an apartment association vests with the owners of the apartments and not the builder, unless the builder still retains a share in the apartment building.

The right way to do it is to round up all owners along with title documents and register yourselves as an association under the Apartment Owners Association Act. Alternatively, the association can be registered under the Societies Registration Act. This is an easier route, but technically not the correct way to go about it.
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Old 28th June 2018, 13:36   #282
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Originally Posted by IshWish View Post
The company's official working hours are 9 AM to 6:30 PM ( 9 and a half hours), 6 days a week, and no ePF or Gratuity benefits.
But as per Shops and Establishment Act, New Delhi, no employer can ask their employees to work more than 9 hours a days and more than 48 hours a week. Also company is breaking ePF rules as well. He wanted to move out of the organization but he's been harassed of legal actions. I want to ask my lawyer friends, what options does he have?

It is not very clear to me what your friend's intent is, if he wants to resign, he cannot be stopped. Legal action can only be taken if there is any evidence of any wrongdoing on his part.


The number of working hours is dictated by the Industrial Disputes Act and applies to workmen. For employees whose tasks are managerial in nature and who have people reporting into them, the 48 hours/week rule really does not apply. Heck, in private organizations, even for individual contributors, the hours that they work makes a mockery of what the IDA/S&E provide for!


Any organization which has 20 employees need to be registered with EPFO or form a trust, so clearly there is a breach here UNLESS lets say its a law firm where lawyers are hired on 'retainership' where, even though for all practical purposes they are employees, are treated as contractors rendering a service (legal in this case).
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Old 29th June 2018, 09:58   #283
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Generally, the lessee's and lessor's rights accruing out of the terms of an unregistered agreement cannot be enforced in the event of a dispute. That's good news! I'm glad things worked out.
Thanks again Suhas. I have another one for you.

As per law, what documentation will a lawyer need to have his/her client do before representing them ? If there is, then, can the individual on the other side ask to see it ?
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Old 11th July 2018, 11:54   #284
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Hi,
Say, I have built a building for business use. If I understand the rules correctly, I can only file for depreciation once the building is completed and used for at least more than six months in an year.
So, if I have taken 2 years to construct the building, would I have needed to show those expenses every year or just the depreciation in the year the building is completed and used.
I am guessing I show the value of the building based on the money spent in those 2 years for construction and file depreciation for the same when starting to use it.
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Old 13th July 2018, 19:40   #285
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Income Tax Guys, need advice -

1. Sale of property happened on 15-01-2018.
2. To avoid LTCG, sale proceeds need to be invested in 54EC Bonds within 6 months of sale of property. In this case, before 15-07-2018.
3. 14-07-2018 and 15-07-2018 are holidays, if purchasing the bonds by visiting banks and agents is thought.
4. One, Karvy Computershare Pvt Ltd, allows online application for the purchase of these bonds.

Query -

1. Can I safely purchase the bonds online from the Karvy's portal?
2. If I buy the bonds on Monday (16-07-2018), what would be the consequences? I believe that as per the General law, if a due date falls on a public holiday, the next date should be considered as the due date. Can this be applied here?
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