[CaliAtenza]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

While we would like to think of only the bureaucrats / politicians / contractors etc as corrupt, the reality is that all of us are corrupt. What differs is only the extent of corruption. When was the last time we bought a property and registered it for the value we paid for it ? So, no spring or waterfall is going to save us or the country, unless all of us change. The Mahatma's line "Be the change you want to see" comes to mind.

And while I do respect our Armed Forces, some recent incidents don't exactly show them in a good light. So, I would be wary of a military regime - nothing good has come out of a similar succession of regimes in our neighboring country.

Also anything that proposes a sole entity / authority is a recipe for problems - single party politics included. It is not without reason that monopolies are not encouraged in business.

Even if you take all the current politicians/govt employees out of the system, what is the guarantee that we will get a clean system when the replacements are going to come from among us ?

While I felt anger/shock at the Delhi rape incident, I am not sure death penalty will help address the issue. Even after that incidents, I have read about so many other rapes/murders in the country. It is only that this one got all the attention - there are others in India and Bharat who suffer/die without getting front-page attention.

In a way, i feel like there are way too many politicial parties in India, but thats to be expected in a parlimentary system. The politicians are beyond hope at this point, I've already said that. I think governance at this point is also beyond hope. If we are all corrupt at this point, where will the replacements come from, is a good question. At least if there was more discussion of politics and governance among the people and the media, things might have been better. The youth in India are so disinterested in politics and government that it's scary and worrying. The change isnt gonna come from the old, it will come from the young.

Oh, on CNN, if anyone wants to tune in, Anderson Cooper will be dedicating his show AC360 to the Rape case on Monday night US time.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by joe1980

Just came across this news article.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...?homepage=true

This is what happens if justice is delayed. The accused now are looking for ways to defend themselves. They became greedy to live. Seems like they do not want any physical harm to them. Then *** did they do that to another human being? Seriously letting them loose without any capital punishment is a big threat to the neighborhood. Please punish all 6 of them!

I hope its denied.
And this is when punishing them will be the most satisfying for the masses.
Regret, and then the switch is pushed.

[deutscheafrikar]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/17922913.cms

And now we have a spiritual guru Asaram Bapu say something controversial

[carboy]

Originally Posted by joe1980

This is what happens if justice is delayed.

Has justice been delayed?

Originally Posted by joe1980

The accused now are looking for ways to defend themselves.

So the criminals should not be allowed to defend themselves?

Originally Posted by mayankk

I hope its denied.

If the prosecution feels that they can prove the crime of all 6 of them then they will not need any help of any of the accused turned witnesses and they will not make any of them turn into govt witnesses in exchange for a reduced sentence.

On the other hand, if the prosecution feels that with the evidence at hand, it will not be able to make a watertight cased against the accused, then they will look for the help of 1 or 2 of them turning against the others in exchange for a reduced sentence. The motive here is instead of all of 6 them turned loose or minor sentences because of a lack of a watertight case against them, you use one or two to build a case against the others. So you are able to get a water tight case against the majority and even the 2 who turn govt witnesses will be punished. If prosecution go this route, they will only do so because of lack of any other alternative and not because of any sympathy for the two.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by carboy

How do you prevent the existing politicians and future politicians built in a similar mode from joining the people party?

How are regional parties worse than national parties?

What exactly is a 'fully empowered police and army'? Can you elaborate?

I cannot prevent anything in India even if I am a law abiding tax paying citizen.
Regional parochialism is the problem and this is being fanned by regional parties.
I mean that the army and police should be able to function without political interference. Include the judiciary in this.
Also, ban and abolish the judiciary's British Raj era Summer Holidays. Why on earth should they get two months off in summer? Are they gods or what? How about the rest of the working people who dont get holidays the same way,

[carboy]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I cannot prevent anything in India even if I am a law abiding tax paying citizen.

So banishing all existing parties and having only 'people party' will not solve any problems.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Regional parochialism is the problem and this is being fanned by regional parties.

It is one of the problems. It's not the only problem. I don't see how it causes crimes like the one discussed here.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I mean that the army and police should be able to function without political interference. Include the judiciary in this.

How do we do this - i.e. allow the army and police and judiciary to function without political interference?

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Also, ban and abolish the judiciary's British Raj era Summer Holidays. Why on earth should they get two months off in summer? Are they gods or what? How about the rest of the working people who dont get holidays the same way,

My opinion is the opposite. A govt which doesn't do anything is the best govt. Just let them work a couple of days in a month (if necessary) and take the rest of the month off.

The constitution already exists. The laws already exist. The Govt offices already exist. Why do you need politicians working for 12 months a year?

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by deutscheafrikar

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/17922913.cms

And now we have a spiritual guru Asaram Bapu say something controversial

I absolutely love the sensationalist media

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by carboy

The constitution already exists. The laws already exist. The Govt offices already exist. Why do you need politicians working for 12 months a year?

I said the Judiciary should work throughout. To clear the backlog.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I said the Judiciary should work throughout. To clear the backlog.

Sorry, my bad. I misread that sentence.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I said the Judiciary should work throughout. To clear the backlog.

+1, nobody in the world gets 2 months paid holiday every year. I have no words to describe this.

[manolin]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

+1, nobody in the world gets 2 months paid holiday every year. I have no words to describe this.

To clarify, the lower courts do not have summer holidays.

The holidays are necessary in the higher courts, because (i) the higher courts also perform administrative duties which are typically dealt with in the holidays, and most importantly (ii) the judges are really hard working people. Most people don't realise it, but to be a judge requires you to work late into the evening every night, dictating judgements (the actual judgements are dictated later, only the award is mentioned in court), preparing for the next day's cases. Unlike other government officials, whose duty hours are fixed, judges have fairly long duty hours after the court day is over.

Even sunday night is spent getting ready for cases coming up on monday morning.

A litigating lawyer's/judges' life is fairly hard, they typically get only one free day in the week, year on year. Anyways, that was to just to give some perspective.

The problem is not that Judges are not working, the problem is that the number of judicial posts has not increased while the number of cases has increased massively.

[faustus77]

Shankar.balan,SA Kiran/and others.
Hi everybody.
Our courts are closed for 130 days a year(source:Calcutta HC calendar 2013).
I am not a lawyer nor a judge so I wouldnt be able to comment on how hard they work after the court officialy closes.But the results are there for everybody to see.A case in point:the murder of L.N.Misra,one time railway minister,in1976 or 1978, has been meandering through our judicial system until now.The culmination of the trial is nowhere in sight.
Here is a link to today's(7/1/2013)economic times article titled "fast tracking justice delivery"by Mythili Bhusnarmath.If you have the time and inclination please do read it.The last wry comment by Judge Sturges is "Justice is open to everyone in the same way as the Ritz hotel"
Regards

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defau...&ViewMode=HTML

PS:Shankar.balan:The rot runs deep.If history is anything to go by,we indians always have been divided on caste,region,language etc.Things are changing specially with the advent of internet(officially covers just 13%??of the population actually it may be less) but still a very long haul ahead.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by manolin

The holidays are necessary in the higher courts, because (i) the higher courts also perform administrative duties which are typically dealt with in the holidays, and most importantly (ii) the judges are really hard working people. Most people don't realise it, but to be a judge requires you to work late into the evening every night, dictating judgements (the actual judgements are dictated later, only the award is mentioned in court), preparing for the next day's cases. Unlike other government officials, whose duty hours are fixed, judges have fairly long duty hours after the court day is over.

People in every profession work hard. There are innumerable jokes about hardworking SW engineers, many of them don't go home for days together. They don't drag on projects for decades! It is not just the courts that do admin work, but every other profession; and they have been doing it better. Private companies with strengths of about 1,000 manage admin work with 3-4 people. What is the strength in courts?

Judicial system knows the problem and has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to correct it, WHY? Well, they have to slog days and nights to create non-existent witnesses and drag on cases for ages. Look how long open and shut cases drag on. The problem is with the very basis of judicial system. INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY, this may be applicable in some cases, but can't be the basis for every care. The whole world saw what Kasab and his friends did, but the judicial dragged the case for years before the judgement was pronounced and it was carried out.

My point is there were disputes even before the current judicial system evolved. How were they resolved? I'm sure that cases did not drag on for decades then.

NOBODY WHO HAS A STAKE IN THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM WANTS REFORMS.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by sa_kiran

The problem is with the very basis of judicial system. INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY, this may be applicable in some cases, but can't be the basis for every care.

So what do you propose? How do you decide which cases need "Innocent Till Proven Guilty" and which don't.

[sa_kiran]

Originally Posted by carboy

So what do you propose? How do you decide which cases need "Innocent Till Proven Guilty" and which don't.

Law is not my specialization, so I'm not in a position to suggest the alternative. However, any level headed person can say that this is absurd. Why can't the legal luminaries come up with a sensible alternative? They prefer to drag on the cases for ages, instead of coming up with viable alternatives.