[AWD]

Govts. move to Ban the documentary actually gave it so much publicity that even those who wouldnt have seen it otherwise, made it a point to watch. IMO a ban on viewing the documentary was not the right way of going about it. The documentary brings out the attitudes prevalent in India out in the open. Im talking of high averages, not among all. So the World should watch the documentary & shame the Country, so should we. Its a collective failure of society, Govts. & moral values.

More worrisome is the complete failure of the correction facilities operating in the land. Jails, Judicial system, etc. fail to correct the individual. Rather worsening of the situation is much expected. The huge socio-eco. divide + burstling population coupled with lack of laws & their proper implementation make for a deadly concoction, the results of which are pretty evident. Also the complete depletion of values, no care for fellow humans or animals makes the matters worse.

Important is what we learn form the episode, the documentary could have been a good study case for the psychiatrists & helped Govt. in finding solutions to the grave problem. But there's a complete lack of will. So what else can we learn from this ? Introduce moral education again from primary classes, there should be a special thrust on this & not just end up as a fruitless hobby class. Healthy discussion among public on the topic, sensitization of the masses & good use of the media(print/screen) to spread the message. Ofcourse correct Laws are required, not those redundant ones from the British era & their right implementation.

Hope there is light at the end of the tunnel !

[1lokesh]

So this whole documentary issue is really getting messed up and dirty. Now victim's friend, who was with her on that cursed day has come out against the documentary, even blaming the documentary of being fake with twisted facts.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/nirbhayas...097-3-244.html

All politics and debates aside, I am just baffled to see that more energy is being spent on this documentary rather than addressing the core issue because of which this documentary is in existence - RAPE

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I feel the issue here is different.
........
Honestly I don't think this will go in the coming decade also or even in 2 decades. Its a very slow change that will gradually seep in once development and education overwhelms and starts challenging their way of life. Until that time we can just hope to create some strict laws with harsh punishments to inculcate a sense of fear and thus hope to make it safer for women.

We need education, not just trying to score the highest marks. Also the schools and parents need to emphasize this, and more importantly walk the talk(a look at the way IT folks brazenly flout traffic laws, IT is picked since I am part of it, and it requires a min of a college degree). Unless the Walk the talk happens, the kids think its only "values" as learnt in lessons and not for our daily lives. We are very good at making statements, and writing lengthy articles, but have the same old mindset when we go back to our lives.

The governments (State and centre), the NGOs and other bodies should propagate the messages to the villages as well, using all the tools at our disposal. Along with it there should be stringent enforcement of the law with no fear or favour, both of which is corrupting the very foundation of this country. Also Gender neutral laws would help in people adopting it, rather than seeing it as a womens' law. These unfortunately is missing. Today be it a murder ( as in the case of Humvee murder) or the Rapes, the punishment is not swift and not seen to be fair, unless it gets a large media attention. The easiest route is to scuttle the whole process and pay it off if possible else use some political clout.

So all this is intertwined, and need radical changes.

[civic-sense]

I don't think this problem is going to go away even with "education". Something you practice become part of your culture, and something part of the culture gets ingrained in the DNA. We are a nation of wife-beaters for centuries, so I don't expect somebody to wake up after a few days of education and say: "Am enlightened, am going to respect women from today".

Even if we become "aware", the best we do is, brush it under the carpet and ask for a ban on somebody who dared to speak the truth.

Hell, this is a godforsaken country.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

What is very inappropiate is having a governement official tell a citizen off on what he or she should and should not say. That is not a role, nor a responsibility of any democratic goverment I'm aware off. At best the ambassodor could say that the professor opinion does not reflect the Germans' governement opinion on this matter. If he really spoke to her, he has overstepped his authority.

It's true that the Ambassador overstepped his authority in writing a letter to the lady and making it public. Why the Ambassador, not even the German Chancellor or President have the right to tell her what to say or not. I bet he would not have written the letter to her if he was the Ambassador to, say Netherlands, and a similar incident happened. There would have been absolutely no need for him to get into the picture at all.

That's why I feel sorry for him. He seems to have understood India very well, and felt the need to step in, even if it was grossly inappropriate for him to so do. He basically had very little choice.

I think he perfectly understands the nature of the government, the media and the misguided mobs in India to turn this into a huge, vexing issue between India and Germany. He has to take care of the interests of Germans in India as well. Apart from organisations and their employees, German speakers (from Deutschland, Switzerland, Austria etc.) easily form the largest chunk of tourists visiting India.

Being the wise gentleman he seems to me, I expect Herr Steiner to write another (private) letter to the lady apologising for his previous one, and explaining the circumstances that made him write it.

Originally Posted by pratyush6

You've said all I wanted to say.

I see a lot of people stating that the documentary paints India in low light and it is filled with propaganda.

...

The scary part is the mindset - I have heard educated people talk trash and make it sound as if the girl invited the whole thing.

Thank you, bro. The sad thing is that it's quite difficult for education (especially what passes off for it in India) to change one's mindset. It can at best polish it and give it a wider perspective, but then again one cannot polish a turd.

As for all the talk about the "propaganda", "anti-India agenda", wanting to show the country in "poor light" and what not, I find it absurd and preposterous.

Propaganda, seriously? Why? Just because it took a foreign woman and her courage to make a documentary as soul-searching as that? Did she usurp the chance of an Indian man (or woman) to make something similar and earn accolades for it?

Of course, she didn't. Most Indian directors are probably busy making third-rate films (in different languages) with five song-and-dance sequences, a couple of fake fights and a cheap (& often vulgar) comedy track. Well, at least this is better than what we used to get earlier. Remember all those crappy films from a decade or so ago that had a mandatory violent rape scene to "entertain" the audiences? Utterly disgusting they were!

The funniest thing is, Indians tend to behave as if we have some great image in the world (present nowhere other than in our own narrow minds) and that those "evil", "racist" foreigners have a single-point "agenda" of destroying this "incomparable greatness" of ours and somehow want to prevent India's rise as a "superpower" and "the natural leader" of the world, nay the entire universe!

Absolutely hilarious! Again, it all boils down to our sheer lack of innate ability to look into the mirror for an honest idea of what we are. It's not what or who we think we are that matters, but what we do that defines what we actually are!

It reminds me of the famous tale of the jackal from the timeless Hitopadesha. A jackal stumbled and fell into a vat of indigo dye while foraging for food. On managing to get out of the vat, he thought he could put his newly acquired blue colour to good use.

He called a meeting of all animals and proclaimed to them that the Goddess of the forest had appointed him the new king of animals. Initially, all the animals (including lions, tigers etc.) who were in awe of his unique blue colour, believed him, and paid respect to him as they fell for his cunning calculated lie.

The blue jackal grew more and more arrogant as the days passed. Then one fine day, the other jackals began to howl in unison for some reason. The self-proclaimed "king of the forest" could not control his natural instincts and began to howl loudly with them. The other animals immediately realised that he was a mere jackal and no Goddess-appointed king. The blue jackal's little game then came to a cruel end.

Moral of the tale: Whatever fake mask one manages to put on, one's true colours would come out in the open sooner rather than later, and often with disastrous consequences.

The jackal's blue colour resulting from getting immersed in the dye mentioned in the fable (indigo) also gives one the idea that this tale is very appropriate for today's India and Indians.

Although I just added a smiling emoticon, I write this with a real tinge of sadness.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by RSR

Remember all those crappy films from a decade or so ago that had a mandatory violent rape scene to "entertain" the audiences? Utterly disgusting they were!

.

Couldn't it be because its a movie? That its not real ? I am just asking because most of the people who would enjoy such a thing could not be judged and they know the line that exists between a movie and otherwise. I could be wrong.

But it would seem that movie makers had nothing else to show in our movies and you are right that its disgusting.

It seems that we have lost sense of acknowledging difference of opinion in this country. We are completely intolerant or we have been made so by the cunning vultures to placate one or the other.

[RSR]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Couldn't it be because its a movie? That its not real ? I am just asking because most of the people who would enjoy such a thing could not be judged and they know the line that exists between a movie and otherwise. I could be wrong.

You do have a valid point. That would be giving the directors of those movies the benefit of the doubt - fair enough.

It's not as if movies should not contain such scenes. I mentioned the disturbing frequency at which they occurred - the majority of movies during a particular period (in different languages) had one such scene.

Anyway, I'm relieved that it's not the case any more.

[JLS]

To all those who suggest this film was not for propaganda and that the director has made it for non-commercial but noble purpose and it's a courageous action on her part, i have following counter points:
1. If motive was to show a mirror to Indian masses, and uneducated set of people were target audience, why this film was made in English and not in multiple Indian languages
2. If really the education was the purpose, why things legal permissions were bypassed and everything was not cleared with legal authorities with transparency
3. If target audience was Indian uneducated masses, BBC could have chosen to fight the ban legally and shown the film in India rather than defying Indian ban and showing it internationally

List of such counter points could be much longer, however moot point is that BBC made this film for driving home a particular point about India, her culture and mentality of Indian male. The awakened conscience of some of us after seeing this film is just a by product. However people who are getting appalled and disturbed after watching this film, probably were already aware of the issues on ground.

Lets agree, a film made with propaganda in mind is also successful in showing mirror to some educated and intellectual individuals, who were already aware of the reality.

Regards
JLS

[ani_meher]

I think this thread needs to be split further to discuss the documentary issue separately. Whether the BBC documentary was a timely mirror shown to Indian males, or it was a propaganda to malign the Image of India, has nothing to do with the proceeding of the case itself.

That being said, I wonder how even after all these years, the words of Savarkar hold true, that 'British written history is preferred by our country's intellectuals.' When the person who suffered with the girl himself is calling it a 'fake film', and an intellectual person in a different country is discriminating Indians, still we should talk humbly about the great public service BBC has done to open our eyes.

Tilak had said, 'whatever improvements were needed in our actions, we are capable of doing so. We don't want any foreigners to dictate it.' The country-wide protests after the rape were not for free chai-coffee, it was because nation felt - and continues to feel - the need for stricter rules and better culture. But that does not mean we give right to foreign commentaries who contribute nothing to the cause, but help other countries form bad opinion about India.

[akhil_007]

I agree with other posts here. The judicial system is taking too long to deliver the verdict and the statments made during interview is like rubbing it in. The court should consider revamping it's functioning. Maybe then things move faster

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Now that you have vented out, hope you have a good nights sleep. But i doubt, the humidity is a bit too much.

I can sense the sarcasm but we're neither discussing sleep nor the humidity. So your post is irrelevant. Maybe the humidity is the culprit

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by JLS

To all those who suggest this film was not for propaganda and that the director has made it for non-commercial but noble purpose and it's a courageous action on her part, i have following counter points:
1. If motive was to show a mirror to Indian masses, and uneducated set of people were target audience, why this film was made in English and not in multiple Indian languages

Am not sure if you realized the point you were trying to make here?!

The documentary was made to be broadcast on BBC, which is an English channel. If it was a Russian channel who made the documentary, did you expect them to make the documentary in any other language, than Russian?!

[kiku007]

The Government or the legal system should have just hanged the accused on women's day and called it a day.

Too much drama by BBC and NDTV. Banning is a blessing in disguise publicity in the age of internet.

[WorkingGuru]

I really believe people are afraid to speak their mind (& what is a counter-view) against a social WAVE.

I watched the BBC interview & another interview by

Newslaundry

yesterday & pondered for a good while.

To be very honest it seems although the lawyer is quite wrong for trying to justify the criminality of the rapist but he is making VERY DIFFERENT points from what was stated in the Documentary.

This tells me why the court has given importance to his viewpoint & heard him out.

I have no doubts about the view that BBC is trying to defame India & brandish every Indian man as a person who justifies such incidents. We know how journolists use literary skills to twist any case.

Also, I've noticed brand content creators having a good time creating "Anti-Rape" content. Some such professional content creators are my friends and confirmed that brands are peddling the matter further to attract business. Worse still, its working.

I was asked just 1 question by one of the good ones among them : Would you walk through chor bazaar holding a pot of gold & expect to remain unharmed?

Heck I wouldn't even park my car there for more than 20 minutes!

So, if you are afraid to publicly express your views thinking you'd be a social outcast for it, then you're right!

The British have only one agenda, to attack, defame & ruin the social structure of India.


Anyway, even if you're against my PoV, just watch the Newslaundry interview.

P.S. : Its our country, its our future. YES its important to step up security, but don't let some foreigner decide what your friends should think.

[Gansan]

"An average Indian man obeys his conservative mother, supports his wife and protects his daughter's freedom. This is true about most urban Indian men yet we let a foreigner walk in and sensationalize the gory suffering of one of our women to paint entire Indian men to be rapists. I guess it is time for men to keep quiet and let the women to defend us. It is up to them to decide if their fathers, sons, brothers and other loved ones deserve to be painted with the same brush as Mukesh singh".


(A reader's response to a discussion in First Post).


A friend tells me Leslee udwin is suffering from "White Saviour mentality", and I agree with him.


Know what is the name of her production company? "Assassin Pictures!"


She made that film only for altruistic motives! Let us believe!

[supremeBaleno]

This is exactly the same emotions at play in rape cases that are not reported because it will bring dishonour to the family if the neighborhood knows about it - more so when the rapist is related to the family. End result is that while the criminal walks away smiling & even repeats the offence which is again condoned, the victim not only suffers in silence all her lifetime, but also sort of feels that she is responsible for what happened.

Now substitute "world" in place of "neighborhood" and "country" in place of "family" and you will see the parallel.

To say that after seeing the documentary, the world will see India as rape-land and all Indian men as rapists is sort of like saying that the World sees all Americans as racist because some racial killings happen(ed) in the US.

The documentary should be aired in India so that we can know the extent of the malaise and atleast have steps in place to avoid/deter this going forward.