[alpha1]

People here (of this thread called bodybuilding & supplements) should actually checkout the guy GH15 on getbig forum.

The guy was a competitor in the Mr. Olympia (and other similar very high level competitions). Never disclosed his name, but disclosed several truths. (Few people claim he was Nasser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasser_El_Sonbaty). A Few of the truth were already well known by the people in the know (like usage of HGH and Insulin), but the information given by GH15 simply blows you apart with the minutest level of detail.

Also he rips to shreds the so called "natural" bodybuilding contestant and gives their formula too.


His claim (and kind of corroborates with my experience too) is that 2-3 years of proper training (or about say 5 years of improper training - my addition) is what makes you reach your genetic potential. After that you cannot change much only improve the look maturity wise. You may continue gaining miniscule strength, but lean weight wise you reach a dead-end. No one can magically start gaining muscles suddenly after putting in years of effort with weights. If someone does he has juiced.

Supplements are useless for everyone - its is just a marketing gimmick. The natty's body doesn't have enough hormones to utilize the proteins. For a natty, calories are most important. The 1 gram of protein per pound of weight figure works only when you are taking in MILLI grams of hormones. Remember, a natty makes about 15-75 MICRO grams (thousand times lower). The advanced pro's have intake in GRAMS.

You cannot be natty and shredded. You can diet down to very lean look, but you will lose most of the muscles in order to get the six pack look. Only those who had six packs in their teenage can dream of dieting down to six pack AND still retain muscles (their natural hormone profile).

The amount of muscles a natty holds is proportional to the amount of fat he holds. (I will definitely agree with this, same goes for the amount of weights you can lift). So anyone that you know of suddenly started looking "shredded" like Stallone/Sallu/Hritik Roshan - you know what they've been up to.

The weight - height guide given is taking 5'10" as the reference point (perhaps his own height). A natty person will weight about 185lb (84kg) at 10% Body fat if he is genetically a beast. Reduce or add 7 lb (about 3.5 kg) for every inch. Anyone above this weight is either kidding himself with respect to body fat or is juicing. Since most of the people are NOT genetically a beast, you may safely consider 2-5 kg below your calculated figure.

All olympics weightlifters, powerlifters, strength athletes (like strongman) do steroids. (Of course this is in addition to the bodybuilders - claimed "natty" or not).
[Steroids have been known to increase performance since 1940s!!!]

The >15% body fat figure will get "only friend" looks from the females. 10-15% body fat figure will get you the "cute" but interested comments. <10% body fat will land you up in "hot" adonis category. (I kind of agree with this, women have a built in body fat meter)

[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Supplements are useless for everyone - its is just a marketing gimmick.

Thanks. Very informative and something I have suspected long. But at the same time I have gone by 1 gm per pound of body weight axiom, taking most of it from food and just a minuscule very insignificant part from whey, and getting results.

My query is what should be the protein intake, the max one should take for BB?

[Samurai]

Damn, that post was so full of terms I didn't understand. I kept thinking what is a natty???

Anyway, after checking the bodybuilding dictionary, now I am able to understand. Very informative, about the sub-culture of serious bodybuilding. Was never really into bodybuilding, just martial arts and the required fitness conditioning.

[srishiva]

So I saved money not going for supplements
For me, I had deficient protein (vegetarian) and had to increase my egg intake to see big muscles. Protein powders are costly to take them consistently :(

The guy died in sleep. Hopefully didn't run much or had some other problem ?

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

Thanks. Very informative and something I have suspected long. But at the same time I have gone by 1 gm per pound of body weight axiom, taking most of it from food and just a minuscule very insignificant part from whey, and getting results.

My query is what should be the protein intake, the max one should take for BB?

Perhaps the gain that you have seen were because you were in caloric excess? Did you ever stop taking the extra proteins for 1-2 months to see if it really made any difference in body measurements?

To be honest, take a normal weekend athlete (plays soccer, basketball, squash etc or goes jogging). He never eats any "extra" protein. And maintains his body-weight as well as performance levels.

You lift weights, and thus are able to gain ... 5-10 kg of pure muscles over lifetime compared to the weekend warrior. Say you gain this over 5 years period.
What is the daily gain of muscles? About 5-10 grams. (10000 kg/5 years/365 days)

All your metabolic expenses are being taken care by the carbs. Metabolic expenses means keeping you alive, and also the process of building this 5-10 gram of muscle. The raw material is proteins, but the energy expense is taken care by glucose (via the Kreb's cycle).

Even if we were to excrete proteins (let's just say we were) - more than 2 g per day in urine = serious medical condition.


So how much excess do you think should be your consumption of proteins compared to a weekend warrior?

Originally Posted by Samurai

Damn, that post was so full of terms I didn't understand. I kept thinking what is a natty???

Anyway, after checking the bodybuilding dictionary, now I am able to understand. Very informative, about the sub-culture of serious bodybuilding. Was never really into bodybuilding, just martial arts and the required fitness conditioning.

For other's who may read the post: Natty = natural person who has not taken any extraneous performace/look enhancing hormones/drugs like steroids (testosterone, dianabol, decadurabolin, equipoise, trenbolone, anadrol, winstrol, anavar, masteron etc), growth hormone (HGH), insulin, clenbuterol, insulin like growth factor (IGF), ephedrine, triiodothyronine (T3), arimidex, letrozole, clomid, nolvadex, diuretics, and so on.

Samurai, even the fitness, conditioning and martial arts at competition levels are thoroughly rife with these extra chemicals. Of course if the sport doesn't require any semblance of strength or stamina at high intensity - there is no incentive to the competitor to take these aids.

So when you get inspired by any competing athlete, remember it is built on something very very different from what a normal person is.

[Samurai]

I was never into competitions, never took anything other than normal food my family eats. Not even excess eggs or milk kind of stuff. That is why I have never had visible muscles, I thought it was because I stuck with BWC instead of free weights. I've had many people tell me to switch to FW to build visible muscles. But I was not interested to give up BWC which gives me functional strength.

Now you are saying it is because natty can't get visible muscles no matter what?

[mallumowgli]

I remember someone had already commented that alpha1's posts always goes over the head What he is now saying is both motivating and demotivating at the same time

Originally Posted by Samurai

Now you are saying it is because natty can't get visible muscles no matter what?

What is the meaning of visible muscles? Biceps and Triceps? Normal body weight work out can get that. But are you talking about six-pack? or any pack?

My doubt is always whether I am healthy. For a normal average 174cm tall 40 year old like me, what should be the target physique? Am just looking at a healthy cheerful life

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

What is the meaning of visible muscles? Biceps and Triceps? Normal body weight work out can get that. But are you talking about six-pack? or any pack?

I mean ripped look or shredded look like Amir Khan in Ghajini.

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

My doubt is always whether I am healthy. For a normal average 174cm tall 40 year old like me, what should be the target physique? Am just looking at a healthy cheerful life

What is your goal? Just Healthy or healthy & fit?

If you want just healthy, you could just do 5kms brisk walking everyday and get away with it. That is what my dad did and he still fine at 82.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by Samurai

What is your goal? Just Healthy or healthy & fit?

If you want just healthy, you could just do 5kms brisk walking everyday and get away with it. That is what my dad did and he still fine at 82.

Healthy and fit, I guess! But, the problem is I don't know far I should be going and where I stand now. Any baseline for that?

Fit in the sense, my job involves quite a bit of walking/standing at customers' factory sites - but at the end of the day I should have enough energy left to get back to the laptop and finish the drudgery work also. And also I should be looking forward for the weekends not as an excuse for sleeping/resting but for living life. Am able to do it most of the time, but always it is better to have a little bit more!!

[Samurai]

Then bodyweight calisthenics and regular running should do fine.

[alpha1]

Shredded look - unless you were the guy with natural faint six pack in the teenage and small but muscular looking body (say like a gymnast) - you cannot remain a natty and achieve the shredded look. You can become huge by gaining fat (and muscles if you lift heavy weights). You can diet down and have visible six pack but lose most of the muscle roundness (and strenght). Unfortunately that's how natural bodies work.

It does not matter how much protein powder you slurp, because unless you have hormones in your blood, your muscles will never know how to utilize all those amino acids to build muscles. And when amino acids are not used, they get converted to glucose. And if glucose is not being used then it gets stored as fat ultimately. Hormones = how much testosterone flow in the blood. Whether natural from testes or injected.

Genetics. Always comes into picture.
There is a pic of one of the forum members quite far back on this thread. Not possible while staying natty unless he was the way I described - natural faint six pack in the teenage and muscular looking body before starting weights.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by alpha1

unless you have hormones in your blood, your muscles will never know how to utilize all those amino acids to build muscles. And when amino acids are not used, they get converted to glucose.

Wait... what happens to functional strength? This is the part I don't understand. If a guy is doing 100 pushups without any supplments, his muscles may not show, but functional strength is still there, isn't? How does functional strength build without muscles?

[fine69]

Originally Posted by Samurai

How does functional strength build without muscles?

No. of reps wouldn't have to be directly proportional to the mass of muscles. I think it'd be that delay in process that triggers fatigue.

Functional strength would mean that fatigue triggers a little later than a normal guy because we condition the muscles to take certain amount of load/reps before they start giving up.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Then bodyweight calisthenics and regular running should do fine.

Yes. But is there a reference point, an ideal? Or certain parameters against which I can measure up? Some people say, if you are able to climb up a few flight of stairs without gasping for breath you are ok. Others say if your measure around your stomach at the belly button is so much, then you are good.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

Yes. But is there a reference point, an ideal? Or certain parameters against which I can measure up? Some people say, if you are able to climb up a few flight of stairs without gasping for breath you are ok. Others say if your measure around your stomach at the belly button is so much, then you are good.

Not sure but you can get a treadmill test Should really tell you about your endurance and also how good your heart is