[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by amitoj

it is the ego people carry into the gym when doing weights that causes the problem.

And not warming up and going straight for the heaviest weight.

Yes, you might lift it for one last rep, human body can do amazing things when subjected to intense pressure, but it is when you have to bring it back, when you have gravity working for you that you don't realise the hell of a jerk this massive mass can cause. Maximum injuries, though I am not an expert, I think, would occur in this eccentric phase.

As it is said, going to the top is easy but understand that you also have to come back.

Can I lift this weight is not the question one should ask? Can I bring it back the way it is expected, is what is most important? Perhaps this understanding has been our key to avoiding any serious injury.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by fine69

Quick question - Can I do all using this bench?

You can use this contraption for the following:
Flat press (I hope the bar holder end is height adjustable)
Incline press
Squat (if you can rotate the bar holder to opposite way)
Flyes (I would actually prefer using dumbells instead)
Leg extension
Leg curl

You would be able to do any kind of barbell rows on this.
I don't have any problems with leg extension and leg curls. But in my opinion, the farther the extremities from your spine/pelvis/ribcage - the lighter weight you should train with for an injury free life. In fact in my observation, only the fan shape muscles respond well to heavy weights (that means pectorals, lats, glutes etc).

Regarding the point about meniscus tear - squat or leg extension both will irritate you. Squat may irritate you more because there is a torsion moment acting on the knees during the squat.

Now, coming over to what I really feel as long time useful exercises:
1. Pullups/Chins/Pulley - doesn't require a bench
2. Dips - doesn't require bench
3. Overhead press - doesn't require bench
4. Some kind of row - preferably dumbells - can be done without a bench. All you need is a support to keep your free hand on.

There, those 4 along with some hammer/biceps curl are enough to give a Tarzan body (or whatever closest a person's body can ever achieve). Now on to the lower body:
5. Squats - can be done with simple stands. I anyway don't really promote going heavy on this unless you wish to power-lift or for a change. Indian wrestler style doesn't even require heavy weights - and you won't be able to balance too.
6. Deadlifts (sumo or conventional) - no bench required
7. Some kind of heel lifts strict and continuous for minutes - again doesn't really require a bench. Perhaps no weight required altogether

So do you really need a bench?
Only for 2. flat press and 3. incline press. Perhaps you can live without these two exercises ... and no one would anyway notice. ;-) :-D
(Sorry I had to bring in the pessimism back to the thread)

[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Most of the bodyweight workouts are based on what humans evolved to do, so we are not going against what comes naturally to humans.

Having been a student of Evolution, I gawk whenever I find someone quoting evolution to promote an exercise or dietary protocol. Such a vast, complex and beatific process reduced to something as simple as 2+2=4.

If there is some thing that evolution prepares us for is survival (and its concomitant pro-creation). It is a species' response to its environment. That's it. There is nothing right or wrong.

Whether we choose body weight training or weight lifting is entirely our call. The thing that would define if we have made a right choice or not would depend entirely on the females. If for some reason the they start having a preference for body weighters the number of them would grow at the cost of weight-lifters and vice-versa.

Substitute females for nature and you have Theory of Natural Selection.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

Having been a student of Evolution, I gawk whenever I find someone quoting evolution to promote an exercise or dietary protocol. Such a vast, complex and beatific process reduced to something as simple as 2+2=4.

When it is applicable, why not use it?

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

It is a species' response to its environment. That's it. There is nothing right or wrong.

It is not about right or wrong in a moral/aesthetic sense. But in the sense of using the right tool.

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

The thing that would define if we have made a right choice or not would depend entirely on the females. If for some reason the they start having a preference for body weighters the number of them would grow at the cost of weight-lifters and vice-versa.

Heard of arranged marriages?

As a student of evolution you must also know that natural selection got interrupted once human societies were formed. We don't live by the creed of natural selection anymore. Now one male gets only one female, and even the weak gets to mate and procreate, without having to defeat the competition.

I alluded to evolution of human body only to say it evolved to do normal human activities, well before human societies were formed. When you do things that humans didn't evolve to do, you may not be building on your strength.

[vasoo]

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

And not warming up and going straight for the heaviest weight.

Yes, you might lift it for one last rep, human body can do amazing things when subjected to intense pressure, but it is when you have to bring it back, when you have gravity working for you that you don't realise the hell of a jerk this massive mass can cause. Maximum injuries, though I am not an expert, I think, would occur in this eccentric phase.

....

Since my job involves lot of travel, I do end up in hotel gyms quite often. I have seen this tendency of many people who come in with jackets on and then go straight to the 50 lb dumb bells to start curls. I one asked such a person if he doesnt want to do warm ups before going heavy, he said he is coming in after a jog in the trail nearby! Not sure how one can jog using biceps

[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Heard of arranged marriages?

...and increasing our population to drive ourselves towards extinction!

How you select your mate is not important. Whether you procreate in enough numbers so that the species continue on their journey towards survivability is what holds the key.

In Natural Selection environment is the most important factor. There is one very interesting study about increase/decrease of numbers of brown/black moth in industrial/post-industrial England (one of the very few). It makes for a very interesting reading.

My point is that human body can do amazing things and the world surrounding us especially in the sporting arena provides us with ample proof. Let's not restrict it by saying, 'no, we cannot do it!'

One more thing, leg extension machine is a very important tool in the rehab centre of Orthopedists. If it were as bad as it is made out to be, I am sure, it wouldn't find a place there. I have been inside a Rehab centre when my father had his knee transplant, I was surprised to find it resembling a Gym, except that it didn't have any free weights.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

One more thing, leg extension machine is a very important tool in the rehab centre of Orthopedists. If it were as bad as it is made out to be, I am sure, it wouldn't find a place there. I have been inside a Rehab centre when my father had his knee transplant, I was surprised to find it resembling a Gym, except that it didn't have any free weights.

Leg extensions have indeed helped me strengthen my knees. Since childhood I have suffered from unstable kneecaps. The link that was mentioned a few posts back regarding leg extensions mentioned something to the effect that they are bad when done with maximum speed and force. I think most exercises when done this way will do more harm than good.

Originally Posted by vasoo

Since my job involves lot of travel, I do end up in hotel gyms quite often. I have seen this tendency of many people who come in with jackets on and then go straight to the 50 lb dumb bells to start curls. I one asked such a person if he doesnt want to do warm ups before going heavy, he said he is coming in after a jog in the trail nearby! Not sure how one can jog using biceps

Hahaha... that almost made me choke on my coffee.

[fine69]

So a topic not many would want to openly discuss but since I've been jumping on and off this fitness bus I thought why don't I be a man and talk about it. It has some embarrassing accounts of my health problems so please read at your own risk

In November 2013 I did this HIIT program called Insanity for about a month or 40 days. I lost about 8 kgs in a month and from weighing a not so bad ~69 kgs I was down to ~61. I didn't even weigh myself until my juniors started asking whether I was ok or not.

When I realized that the reason everybody kept checking up on me was because I was getting leaner by the day. I weighed myself and realized that I lost 8 freaking kgs of weight. I'm 5'8" so 70 kgs wasn't that bad to begin with but just wanted to get better.

Then I tore some fibres in my shoulder and stopped doing it. I waited for it to heal completely but after having enough physiotherapy sessions, ultrasonic and inferrential current therapy I accepted the truth that it might never heal that quick. In fact the shoulder still bothers me till date.

So having realized that Insanity is probably not the program I should continue with I started looking for some high intensity cardio alternates. Swimming turned out to be an excellent alternate and I started with it in Aug'14. After just one month into swimming I cut back on everything but protein intake to such an extent that I got constipation that lasted about 5 days.

On the 5th day I tore my insides and had an anal fissure. The pain was unbearable that lasted about a week but I recovered and realized the importance of water and a balanced diet!

I had a recurrence twice again (thanks to alcohol & spicy food) but it healed within 2 days both times. I got wiser and decided to skip on the momo chutney next time onwards. Importance of drinking enough water in the day was registered well this time.

Everything was fine for a while until I took up Insanity again, Jan'15, and tore my meniscus in both knees. I was doing weights (dumbbells only) + Insanity when this happened. The reason for it was because after one of the cardio sessions I thought I didn't sweat enough and decided to do extremely quick high jumps, about 15-20 jumps. Next day onwards I couldn't straighten my leg for 4 days and an MRI told me that I had something that was going to bother me for the rest of my life.

Jun'15 and I decided to start swimming again (probably the safest & most enjoyable workout for me). I took up weight training at home using dumbbells and just 3 days ago I had a not so bad case of hemorrhoids.

Initially I thought the fissure started acting up again but I was surprised because this time I drank water like a fish and my diet was absolutely normal and balanced!

Then I realized that it definitely wasn't the fissure because the pain when going to the loo during a fissure is such that you may at times contemplate suicide, so it wasn't that bad but bothersome for sure.

I read up on the net and realized that weight lifting is one of the reasons for getting hemorrhoids. Eureka moment for me, well not exactly! :P

My case wasn't bad enough as I recovered within 2 days but I did do squatting & lunges until failure 2 times a week since the last 2 weeks. Since it could be one of the reasons and I saw enough videos of professional bodybuilders facing this issue, much severe cases rather, I thought why don't I raise this not so comfy topic and see if other bhpians dealt with similar issues and what all precautions they take on their respective fitness journeys.

Key learning for me have been that its extremely important (for me) to follow a balanced diet, drink lots of water and enjoy working out with slow and gradual increments rather than try to be hulk in the first week or month of working out.

I did follow the breathing techniques to the T when squatting using dumbbells or even if I was doing a shoulder press. The weight I had was 7 kgs in both hands at all times but this hemorrhoid problem made me want to discuss it further before I ruin something else in my body.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by fine69

1. Then I tore some fibres in my shoulder and stopped doing it.


2. After just one month into swimming I cut back on everything but protein intake to such an extent that I got constipation that lasted about 5 days.


3. and tore my meniscus in both knees. I was doing weights (dumbbells only) + Insanity when this happened.


4. I read up on the net and realized that weight lifting is one of the reasons for getting hemorrhoids. Eureka moment for me, well not exactly! :P

1. So was it high intensity, high volume, low calories, less rest approach that caused shoulder injury?

2. Your voice will be drowned in the zombie drone of proteins, PROTEINS, MOOAAR PROTEINS! *while they slurp their expensive formulations*
But I may have a valid counterpoint to you: many eskimos and mongolian tribes have exclusively meat as their diet.

3. Hmmm, so insanity is indeed insane.

4. Hemorrhoids thing could be genetic. But perhaps you were not engaging valsava while lifting heavy loads. In any case I don't believe in lifting heavy. Been there done that for more than a year, not seen any increase in muscle mass, in fact I only grew fat in order to keep progressing with weights.

[Piyadassi]

Originally Posted by fine69

In November 2013 I did this HIIT program called Insanity for about a month or 40 days. I lost about 8 kgs in a month and from weighing a not so bad ~69 kgs I was down to ~61. I didn't even weigh myself until my juniors started asking whether I was ok or not.

Fine, there was one person who had cautioned you against Insanity, if you remember. It was I when I was using my full name as handle.

Once, I had also suffered from severe constipation, but finally the problem was diagnosed as lack of fibre in diet, which I otherwise thought I was having more of it.

Yes, on internet there are lots of stories that lifting heavy leads to rectal bleeding.

Not eating enough is one of the most common mistake people make while trying to lose weight.

Best wishes for weight training. Have respect for weights. Don't try to reach for a particular weight in the first week when you can reasonably reach that in one month. It's better to be slow and steady rather than nursing an injury. But overdo it. Don't be overcautious as well.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Hmmm, so insanity is indeed insane.

Is Insanity insane? At first I thought so but if you start slow, don't let your josh throw caution to winds and be steady it is very effective. I had done it for one month last summer and loved it. The trainer Shawn T continuously emphasises upon it all through but when you are all alone in your room, pounding your feet against concrete floor and don't know when to stop you can't prevent injury.

[amanomics]

Originally Posted by fine69

Key learning for me have been that its extremely important (for me) to follow a balanced diet, drink lots of water and enjoy working out with slow and gradual increments rather than try to be hulk in the first week or month of working out.

Correct. Lots and lots of water, with high fibre intake if the pain persists. Try taking Isabgol, cheap and works wonders!

[fine69]

Originally Posted by alpha1

1. So was it high intensity, high volume, low calories, less rest approach that caused shoulder injury?

I was doing burpees and pushed my hips towards the floor a little too much, something that I had seen in another martial arts video. It ruined my shoulder for good. I mean the moment I did it I heard the same sound when a cloth gets torn.

Originally Posted by alpha1

2. Your voice will be drowned in the zombie drone of proteins, PROTEINS, MOOAAR PROTEINS! *while they slurp their expensive formulations*
But I may have a valid counterpoint to you: many eskimos and mongolian tribes have exclusively meat as their diet.

I'm done with this high protein crap for good. Only one time in my life I bought whey protein and I doubt I ever will again. My current goal is to first reach the plateau while being on a normal diet. I mean that I wish to continue with cardio and weights until I stop seeing improvements every 3-6 months. By improvement I don't mean just aesthetically but my ability to do more reps, lift heavier, swim farther etc.

It is then I will decide whether I really want to jump on the protein wagon, if at all I'm convinced!

Originally Posted by alpha1

3. Hmmm, so insanity is indeed insane.

Its not really. Its one of my favorite workouts after swimming, just that one needs to follow the trainer to the T and ensure 'form over speed'. I was trying to be a smarta** and paid the price.

Originally Posted by alpha1

4. Hemorrhoids thing could be genetic. But perhaps you were not engaging valsava while lifting heavy loads. In any case I don't believe in lifting heavy. Been there done that for more than a year, not seen any increase in muscle mass, in fact I only grew fat in order to keep progressing with weights.

So its not that I wish to lift heavy. I thought squatting with weights is a faster way of building leg muscles than squatting without any weights. Again, I was doing 8 reps in 3 sets, and this was reaching failure by the end of last rep of 3rd set. So I figured I had the right weight.

Now this hemorrhoids thing could definitely be genetic. My father had this issue so lifting heavy could increase the probability of it occurring to me. But the burn I felt in my leg after squatting with weights was very satisfying so I really want to continue.

Coming to valsalva, I had no clue we need to follow this. In fact I was breathing in as I was going down to a squat (with my hands resting on my shoulders with one dumbbell each) and was breathing out as I went back up. If valsalva theory is to be believed then was I really asking for hemorrhoids breathing 'through' the exercise when I really should be holding my breath after breathing in a little?

From the videos that I saw all of them were telling me to breathe out when going back up or pushing weights (say in shoulder press) and I thought I was following the right breathing technique.

Can I ask for a proper & safe (if there's such a thing) description of squatting with 15-20 kgs that includes breathing techniques also.

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

Fine, there was one person who had cautioned you against Insanity, if you remember. It was I when I was using my full name as handle.

Once, I had also suffered from severe constipation, but finally the problem was diagnosed as lack of fibre in diet, which I otherwise thought I was having more of it.

I think I did PM you about the constipation thing. As for you warning me against Insanity, honestly I don't remember but I thought if I maintained proper form I couldn't get hurt. I tried to improvise and got hurt, should've stuck to what the trainer was saying and doing.

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

Yes, on internet there are lots of stories that lifting heavy leads to rectal bleeding.

The number of stories are unbelievable, statistics say 1 out of 3 male suffer from it at least once in their life.

In fact I saw videos & read up some account of bodybuilders who have such envious bodies but have been battling the hemorrhoids for a good time. I couldn't believe that a lot of bodybuilders go through this problem, some for years and some for decades!

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by fine69

In November 2013 I did this HIIT program called Insanity for about a month or 40 days. I lost about 8 kgs in a month and from weighing a not so bad ~69 kgs I was down to ~61. I didn't even weigh myself until my juniors started asking whether I was ok or not.

What was your physical activity level before you took on HIIT? I've always felt HIIT kind of programs are meant for those who want to up their game or shock their body after they have hit a plateau with their normal routine. Not ideal for beginners.

Anyway, I saw the stress it puts on your knees and that was enough for me to not try it

Originally Posted by fine69

I thought why don't I raise this not so comfy topic and see if other bhpians dealt with similar issues and what all precautions they take on their respective fitness journeys.

Key learning for me have been that its extremely important (for me) to follow a balanced diet, drink lots of water and enjoy working out with slow and gradual increments rather than try to be hulk in the first week or month of working out.

I did follow the breathing techniques to the T when squatting using dumbbells or even if I was doing a shoulder press. The weight I had was 7 kgs in both hands at all times but this hemorrhoid problem made me want to discuss it further before I ruin something else in my body.

You've already mentioned the importance of balanced diet. While the issue of whey protein is highly debatable, I can add to the debate from my personal experience. I have always supplemented my diet with whey protein whenever i have started regular workouts. I normally start taking whey protein a week or two after I have resumed weight training. These days I take two scoops of Dymatize ISO mixed with water before I go to the gym
Dymatize ISO 100 Hydrilyzed Whey
My lunch is entirely salad though, 5 days a week, with lots of greens and grilled chicken with some light dressing. I also drink 4+ liters of water during the day and also walk for 2 miles or so every day.
I use whey protein as a supplement, not a substitute.

But even with that, I have suffered from anal fissures but only when my metabolism kicked into high gear. This would usually occur within 2 to 3 weeks of resumption of gym and within one week of resumption of whey protein intake. It would usually last for 3 days or so before getting back to normal. I chalked it up to my body getting used to the increased level of activity and change in diet. No big deal.

You asked for proper squatting technique but I can only tell you what I do. I have not injured my back yet doing squats and neither have i been stuck under a bar that I could not lift
Squatting is the mother of all exercises when done right. It is not necessary to have your thighs parallel or ass to the ground when doing squats. You need to stop when you feel that any lower and your back wont be straight any more. I make sure that i warm up my muscles properly by using lighter weights and as the weights increase, I reduce my speed to focus on form. I added squats to my routine very late. When i started, I could do bodyweight only squats easily. 3 sets of 15 reps with one minute rest. But with weights, I started slowly from 10 pounds on each side. After 2 months, I can now do squats with 35 pounds on each side. This may not be much but at least I am progressing and that's with the legs workout of once a week. I have not suffered from hemorrhoids so I can't comment on that. As for breathing, I do what comes naturally to me. I've noticed that as I reach the point of failure, I am holding my breath more as I push. At that point, I'd rather focus on my form than on my breathing.

And thanks for sharing your experiences! Good luck with your future workouts!

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

i recommend you do some HIIT cardio too with your bodyweight exercises. It will help a lot in shedding fat quick. Being Shredded is definetly fit but the term shredded should be used for someone under 12% bf. according to me. I would guess you to be around >25% right now after seeing that pool pic.

If I indeed have >25% fat, then what about people who don't have muscles? Then people who don't workout should be like >35% fat. I have never tested myself for fat content. I am 46, 5'8" and stuck at 84kgs for many years now. Any attempt to change the diet affects my metabolism, I feel bloated, lethargic, etc. So I eat whatever my wife and kids eat. No supplements at all.

Since two weeks I have not done any workout due to a muscle pull in my arm, and no cardio due to treadmill breakdown, my pants are getting tighter and tummy started showing up. So I re-started chin-ups today. Can't do pull-up here since the door frame doesn't let me use a wider grip I need for pull-up.

My chin is indeed going above the bar, but from the low camera angle it is not so apparent. I keep my knees bent to avoid touching the floor, but it kinda raises as I pull myself up. Since I am not kipping, and keeping the movements slow, I don't know whether my legs are assisting in the chin-ups. I just know it is easier if I raise my knees. Is it because of CG shift?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrN5Jfn66tY

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Samurai

BTW, I am moving it to the next level. Just ordered a roman ring.

So I installed the Roman rings last week.



I was somehow under the impression that Roman rings will be easier than a pullup bar, because I can turn the rings in any angle I want. Boy, was I mistaken...

Doing pullup/chinup in roman rings is lot harder. I never realised how much of stability and support is provided by the pullup bar, in keeping the hands pointed in one direction. In Roman Rings, there is no support provided by the setup. In addition to pulling yourself up, you have to stabilize the hands. I was hoping I can may be "muscle up" easily. No bloody way... I have to get the muscle up working with pullup bar first, before dreaming of doing it on roman rings.