[StrangeWizard]

Saw the video footage on tv. Pretty disturbing.

One big question - Where was the ATM guard at the time of the incident?
Did you guys see the robber got inside and pulled down the shutter before attacking her.

[YaeJay]

Originally Posted by StrangeWizard

Saw the video footage on tv. Pretty disturbing.

One big question - Where was the ATM guard at the time of the incident?
Did you guys see the robber got inside and pulled down the shutter before attacking her.

Yes very disturbing.

Coming to ATM gaurds, most of them are in their 70z, and grossly under paid. There have been many insidents of the ATM gaurds getting thrashed. The private bank ATMS are slightly better. What do we expect? a 70 plus one meal a day candidate to risk his life for a mere 3k a month?

[DRIV3R]

Guys, this was one of the guardless ATMs in Bangalore.

Now the KA govt. has ordered all banks to have guards else shut them ATMs.

[YaeJay]

And what kind of gaurds are they going to employ? The bank hires a security service provider. The security service provider employs 70 Plus poor souls. My point is what kind of security gaurd will be posted? And what kind of traning does that person undergo to be there? Forget saving the customer, can he run for a mile if his life was on threat?

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by YaeJay

And what kind of gaurds are they going to employ? The bank hires a security service provider. The security service provider employs 70 Plus poor souls. My point is what kind of security gaurd will be posted? And what kind of traning does that person undergo to be there? Forget saving the customer, can he run for a mile if his life was on threat?

Not really, but the security guard is more of a deterrent for offenders.

[YaeJay]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

Not really, but the security guard is more of a deterrent for offenders.

Absolutely. But it also depends who is on watch. for the sake of argument, if we were to have someone watch over our money, say xxL, out on the street, who would we hire? a 70 plus deterrent or someone who has a chance to protect it. This is negligence on the banks part. Having manned security is all hogwash. Someone who is motivated enough to walk into an ATM, close the shutter, pull out a gun, and also chop a woman is not going to be scared of a scarecrow in uniform.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by YaeJay

And what kind of gaurds are they going to employ? The bank hires a security service provider. The security service provider employs 70 Plus poor souls. My point is what kind of security gaurd will be posted? And what kind of traning does that person undergo to be there? Forget saving the customer, can he run for a mile if his life was on threat?

Originally Posted by YaeJay

Absolutely. But it also depends who is on watch. for the sake of argument, if we were to have someone watch over our money, say xxL, out on the street, who would we hire? a 70 plus deterrent or someone who has a chance to protect it. This is negligence on the banks part. Having manned security is all hogwash. Someone who is motivated enough to walk into an ATM, close the shutter, pull out a gun, and also chop a woman is not going to be scared of a scarecrow in uniform.

Even a 90+ guard would do the trick, as long as he is not absent from the scene of crime.

Consider this, even if a guard was there and he had been given a fight and some blows before the miscreant entered inside the ATM, it would have caused a ruckus in the vicinity, which would automatically alert passerbys that something was wrong.

Remember a guard always sits outside the ATM, not inside it.

[shipnil]

This is a bad incident, but looking at the suggestions and counter measures proposed by governments in the media, I can't stop but think what stops banks to converts these ATM kiosks into "Hole (machine) in the wall' like what you have in the West. You won't need to have the 70+ guard or guard with lathi in front of it.

When the ATMs started/proliferated in early 90s/2000s, the attraction was time saving as well as the AC experience. This was the main reason for setting up the machines in a small air conditioned room. Now if the banks cannot afford the security, they should do away with the room itself and just have machines facing the road.

[hellmet]

I would prefer ATMs that are built in a way that they appear to be on the road, and do away with the closed "kirana store" walk-in setup. You're then directly on the road in full open view of the public.

Otherwise, they should be installed in restaurants, super-markets or other camera monitored stores that will offer the presence of someone else in the store plus the security of monitoring.

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by hellmet

I would prefer ATMs that are built in a way that they appear to be on the road, and do away with the closed "kirana store" walk-in setup. You're then directly on the road in full open view of the public.

Otherwise, they should be installed in restaurants, super-markets or other camera monitored stores that will offer the presence of someone else in the store plus the security of monitoring.

The risk in the open Kiosk type ATMs are that one can closely watch the proceedings from a distance and drawing big amount could easily draw attention followed by mugging. In the enclosed safety of present ATM, you would never know if one was checking his balance or drew 1K or 5K or 25K, I have seen where muggings happen as soon as the money appears in the slot in open type Kiosks.

Installing in restaurants, super markets, petrol pumps is a good idea but am not sure if it works in predominantly residential areas.

One simple option would be to have high pitched sirens installed outside on the street with emergency buttons located at a couple of strategically placed points in the ATM including the machine itself. A mere pressing the button could draw attention of the passers by that something is wrong in the ATM

[rajeev k]

Another very important aspect is tp either do away with the rolling shutters or to ensure that this is kept in locked at the top so that no attacker can easily pull it down to have his own domain, as happened in this case.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by shipnil

This is a bad incident, but looking at the suggestions and counter measures proposed by governments in the media, I can't stop but think what stops banks to converts these ATM kiosks into "Hole (machine) in the wall' like what you have in the West. You won't need to have the 70+ guard or guard with lathi in front of it.

Similar setup i saw in Shanghai. There these hole in the walls have transparent doors and its impossible for any miscreant to do what happened here.

If China can do it, why not us.

[YaeJay]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Even a 90+ guard would do the trick, as long as he is not absent from the scene of crime.

Consider this, even if a guard was there and he had been given a fight and some blows before the miscreant entered inside the ATM, it would have caused a ruckus in the vicinity, which would automatically alert passerbys that something was wrong.

Remember a guard always sits outside the ATM, not inside it.

Very true. Which pops up the question of where the ATM is located. Most gaurds during the later part of the evening are inside the ATM. Most of them are asleep post 11:00 pm.

I totally disagree with a 90+ gaurd being posted. What I meant was, even a 50 yr old untrained gaurd is not going to stop. We cannot expect them to risk their lives. It is very rare, that some motivated ATM thief does it on the go. It is obvious they do their home work. I guess you watched this particular video. How long does he take to enter, pull out a gun etc. They do their dry runs, choose the ATM, Pick their target and also know the risks.

How about 2 trained gaurds ? How about posting ex-CRPF, ex-millitary, within 45 yrs of age and paying them well?

There have been so many instances where the gaurd on duty had to run away. And instances when they did run away and alerted the cops. There are also instances where the gaurds got aussalted.

This concept of anyone with a uniform is going to stop all this is not going to happen.

[SajiNSalin]

The advice from nishantbhatia84 is very good. We should not be complacent and assume that all is safe. Before entering any ATM, look around and ascertain that it looks and feels safe. Assume that someone will assault you and be on the alert. If it does happen, hand over the money without argument; after all life is worth more than the money. Try to avoid early mornings and evening/night ATM withdrawals.

Team BHP members wish the victim a speedy recovery and hopes the culprit will be caught and suitably punished.

Saji

[YaeJay]

Originally Posted by SajiNSalin

The advice from nishantbhatia84 is very good. We should not be complacent and assume that all is safe. Before entering any ATM, look around and ascertain that it looks and feels safe. Assume that someone will assault you and be on the alert. If it does happen, hand over the money without argument; after all life is worth more than the money. Try to avoid early mornings and evening/night ATM withdrawals.

Team BHP members wish the victim a speedy recovery and hopes the culprit will be caught and suitably punished.

Saji

Yes Saji! There have been many good inputs on safe ATM usage. Most banks have a limit. For a reason. If under threat, I would oblige, beg, plead. I will try not to panic but pretend to be very afraid. To me my life, even another day is worth more than a few thousands in cash.

But, about time the banks pull up their undies on this one.