[Ford5]

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

[14000rpm]

This is a problem I have seen only in US. Not only on flights..even Greyhound buses. Happens in IND too? news to me.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by saket77

I am no frequent flyer as the OP, but am aware of this concept.

Originally Posted by stormerider

Exactly the problem I wanted to highlight is that in such cases, web check-in also doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Max

This is completely non sense, you should sue this airline for damages in consumer court. I have never faced this problem with indigo.

Originally Posted by 14000rpm

This is a problem I have seen only in US. Not only on flights..even Greyhound buses. Happens in IND too? news to me.

I just googled a bit in order to find some more official information on this. I came across a document of DGCA - you can find it here. I am copy pasting some important things below which I think might be relevant to future passengers.


Page 4 of the pdf, DENIED BOARDING:

When the number of passengers, who have been given confirmed bookings for travel on the flight and who have reported for the flight well
within the specified time ahead of the departure of the flight, are more than the number of seats available, an airline must first ask for volunteers to give up their seats so as to make seats available for other booked passengers to travel on the flight, in exchange of such benefits/facilities as the airline, at its own discretion, may wish to offer, provided airports concerned have dedicated check-in facilities/gate areas which make it practical for the airline to do so.

If the boarding is denied to passengers against their will, the airline shall as soon as practicable compensate them in accordance with the provisions of Para 3.5 in addition to refund of air ticket.

Airlines overbook their scheduled flights to a limited extent in order to reduce the possibility of flights departing with unoccupied or empty seats because of ‘No Shows’ by booked passengers i.e. passengers who do not report for travel despite firm bookings before the time limit stipulated by the airline. Under the provisions of this CAR, airlines shall be liable to pay compensation to passengers who are denied boarding. Hence, in order to minimize ‘No Shows’, the airlines will be allowed to levy appropriate ‘No Show’ penalties in relation to the Fare as defined under rule 135 of the Aircraft Rules 1937. This penalty will be deducted from the Fare paid by the passenger.

Page 6 of the pdf, 3.5 Compensation

3.5.1 The financial compensation indicated below shall be given only if the amount of tickets costs is higher than the compensation amount:

a) Rs. 2,000/- or the value of the ticket whichever is less for flights having a block time of upto and including one hour
b) Rs. 3.000/- or the value of the ticket whichever is less for flights having block time of more than one hour and upto and including two hours.
c) Rs. 4,000/- or the value of the ticket whichever is less for flights having a block time of more than two hours.

3.5.2 The compensation referred to in Para 3.5.1 shall be paid in cash, by bank transfer or with the signed agreement of the passenger in the form of travel vouchers, which must be paid within a stipulated time frame.

3.5.3 Alternatively, the passenger shall be offered the choice between the following:
a) Refund of air ticket at the price it was purchased.
b) A flight to the first point of departure.
c) Alternate transportation under comparable/alternate mode of transport (whenever applicable), to the final destination.
d) Alternate transportation under comparable/alternate mode of transport (whenever applicable), to their final destination at a later date at the passengers’ convenience, subject to availability of seats.

3.5.4 The affected passenger shall be offered the choice between the compensation alternatives listed in Para 3.5.1 and Para 3.5.3 above and once the option has been selected the affected passenger will not have the option to switch to another form of compensation.


Hope this helps

[airfoil]

This is unfortunately standard practice and you will have to live with it. The best workaround is to sat a prayer, arrive at the airport early, get in line and be among the first to check in.

[TKMCE]

Dear Saanil

What you just posted is what every traveler should be aware of . Your rights in case of an overbooking. It is a common misconception that the Indian Regulator (DGCA) is not very active in protecting passenger rights- far from it as you can see that document does protect passenger rights to some extent although not to the extent you have in US or some European countries where some smart and regular travelers have even reportedly devised ways out of these stringent laws to get some good discounts on their travel.

Most people tend to forget that an airline ticket is also a contract. Please click on the Terms and Conditions" link in the Jet Airways website home page, scroll down to "Conditions of Contract" and what do you find????

Passenger Rights
If during your travel within, or to/from India , there is a flight cancellation or delay or denied boarding on a flight for which you hold a valid and confirmed reservation, you are entitled to certain rights in accordance with the Civil Aviation Requirements, Section 3 – Air Transport, Series ‘M”, Part IV, Issue 1, dated 6th August, 2010, effective 15th August, 2010, passed by the Director General of Civil Aviation. For your ready reference, we give below a summary of these rights. Full text of this CAR is available on http://dgca.nic.in/rules/car-ind.htm

[i] Denied Boarding
Many a time, passengers who hold a confirmed & valid booking, do not or are unable to report (i.e. ‘No Show”) for travel before the time limit specified by the airline. In such cases, an airline is allowed to levy appropriate ‘No Show’ penalty under Rule 135 of the Aircraft Rules, 1937 and the same will be deducted from the fare paid by the guest.

To reduce the possibility of flight departing with unoccupied or empty seats, the airlines overbook flights to a limited extent. In such overbooking cases, an airline may have more guests reporting for a particular flight than the seats available on such flight and as such, may need to deny the boarding to some of the guests.

In the above event, before denying the boarding, Jet Airways would endeavour to first ask volunteers to give up their seats so as to make such seats available for other booked guests to travel on the flight. In return, Jet Airways, at its own discretion, would offer to the volunteer such benefits / facilities which, it may wish to offer.

In case you are denied boarding involuntarily on a flight for which you hold a confirmed reservation, you are entitled to the following monetary compensation: A] The monetary compensation indicated below shall be given only if the amount of ticket costs is higher than the compensation amount:

a) Rs.2,000 or the value of the ticket whichever is less, for flights having a block time of up to and including one hour.
b) Rs.3000 or the value of the ticket whichever is less, for flights having a block time of more than one hour and up to and including two hours.
c) Rs.4000 or the value of the ticket whichever is less, for flights having a block time of more than two hours.

If the cost of the ticket is less than the amount of compensation indicated above, you will be entitled to an amount equivalent to the ticket cost in addition to refund of air ticket.

[Block time is the total time from the moment an aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight.]

B] The above compensatory amounts will be given to you in the form of a MCO (Miscellaneous Charges Order), which can be encashed at any of our ticketing counters/offices.

C] Additionally, you will be offered the choice between the following:

a) Refund of air ticket at the price it was purchased. OR
b) A flight to the first point of departure OR.
c) Alternate transportation under comparable/alternate mode of transport (whenever applicable), to the final destination OR.
d) Alternate transportation under comparable/alternate mode of transport (whenever applicable), to the final destination at a later date, at the passenger’s convenience, subject to availability of seats.

D] You shall be offered the above alternatives listed in paragraph[C] above. Once you have selected the option, you will not have the option to switch to another form of compensation.

A humble request to some of the posters (not the OP) to please stop criticizing either the regulator or the airline concerned without knowing the facts fully. I neither work or have ever worked for either the airline involved nor the Regulator and indeed a quick review of my posts here in T-BHP will reveal that I travel more in Intecity Buses than on airplanes in the country. BUT when I click on

I have read and agree to the General Terms, Terms and Conditions of Carriage and Fare Rules outlined by Jet Airways

before I complete that booking on Jet Airways website, I feel obliged to actually read and understand what I have just agreed!!!!

[phamilyman]

IMNSHO - I always land up late / just in time. The trick is to web checkin. Basically that ticket has been allocated to YOU. I don't know of a single person who got bumped off post web checkin (but u still need to reach just in time).

Max you need to sign up for their frequent flyer program (Jet etc) if u want a good seat. Most LCCs lets u do it just like that.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by airfoil

This is unfortunately standard practice and you will have to live with it. The best workaround is to sat a prayer, arrive at the airport early, get in line and be among the first to check in.

Actually a better way to handle it is to opt for seat selection in advance and telecheck in or web check in 24 hrs before the flight. Almost all airlines offer these options, some charge for them. My bet is they will not bump someone who has gone to all that trouble.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

IMNSHO - I always land up late / just in time. The trick is to web checkin. Basically that ticket has been allocated to YOU. I don't know of a single person who got bumped off post web checkin (but u still need to reach just in time).

Hi, The issue is not being able to sit in a flight after a ticket has been issued. It was known to me that if I have a boarding pass in my hand, nobody can stop me. My intention of posting this thread was to bring awareness about the process in order to get that boarding pass.

Agree with you on the web check in thing - seems to be the safest thing to do.

Originally Posted by TKMCE

Dear Saanil

What you just posted is what every traveler should be aware of . Your rights in case of an overbooking.

BUT when I click on before I complete that booking on Jet Airways website, I feel obliged to actually read and understand what I have just agreed!!!!

I do not want to judge the DGCA and yes - technically I should be reading the terms and conditions. But in my experience nobody reads them - whether be it installing a software or buying an app (few people might be reading them but I am talking about the majority here).

This Overbooking thing is quite a major thing which can affect passanger's plan dramatically - a thing which many people are not aware of - Hence my intention of making this thread so that people might know such things can happen with anyone.

[TKMCE]

That is the thing - unless you create a scene, they will not even bother to give you anything. One can be lucky to get something out of them without raising their voice.

This is a misleading statement. You accept the Terns and Conditions of the airline in question and the airline has given you a link to the relevant DGCA circular as well which lists out what you are entitled to.

Saying no one bothers with the small print is an excuse and nothing else. A contract whether it is for a personal loan or for your dream house for a 3000 Rupees airline ticket is all the same - a CONTRACT. Next time carry a print out or the soft copy of the DGCA circular and ask straight away for compensation. If the counter staff is not aware of it (which itself is unlikely), ask to speak to the senior manager on duty. You will get the compensation what you are entitled to.


I am traveling in the next few days on a reserved II class Indian Railways ticket on a short 4 hour journey and the ticket cost is only about 100 Rs . A notice was prominently displayed in the railway booking counter from where I booked my journey saying that passengers traveling on a reserved ticket may be asked for identification and has listed out the various documents acceptable for the purpose. Till date I have never been asked for one in trips with Indian Railways (except for the few times when I booked through TATKAL) but that still does not mean that if I am asked this time around. I cannot say "why this time"" or "I never bothered to read the notice" as an excuse.

Back to air travel, please do ensure sure that when you give a contact number to the airline as part of the booking, do make sure it is a number which you can be readily contacted. If an airline can prove that you had given an incorrect contact number and that the airline has made multiple attempts to inform you about delays/cancellations etc, you are eligible for no compensation especially on delayed/ rescheduled/cancelled flights. This is is especially true if you have asked your local travel agent to do your booking and they may not have updated your contact details but instead given the agents office land-line numbers as the contact number to the airline . The airline might get to know about a delay or rescheduling of your Monday morning 6 AM flight at 9 PM in the evening on a Saturday and there may be no one in such cases to answer the airline's attempts to contact you convey the information as the travel agent would have shut for the weekend. The airline is no way responsible for this.



I

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by TKMCE

This is a misleading statement. You accept the Terns and Conditions of the airline in question and the airline has given you a link to the relevant DGCA circular as well which lists out what you are entitled to.

I

Thanks for your reply. I was probably not clear in stating what had actually happened. Initially I was told to take the afternoon flight and was not offered any compensation. Agreed that I do not know the rules but the airline operator should know the rules right? They should have offered me the compensation straight away rather than just telling me to wait for another flight. It is after we told them about our reservations thereafter that we were offered compensation.

The way I see it - The airline people assumed that we were a bunch of newbies and would just agree to taking the afternoon flight and would not ask for compensation. They did not even bother to tell us about the compensation thing. I consider this highly unethical. Luckily there was a friend of mine who tackled this (probably because he knows about such things). I was new to this and did not even know that airlines were allowed to overbook.

This indeed was a learning experience for me. Although overbooking is allowed as per law, I do not find it right at all just thinking about the troubles one might go through.

[Altocumulus]

I had this experience on a return flight from Seattle. It turned out to be good though. The Emirates flight was overbooked and they politely asked me if I could take the next day flight. In return I was offered hotel, food and chauffeur service. Additionally I was offered a round trip in Emirates, anywhere in the world valid for one year. Though it was tempting, I declined because I had some prior commitments. They were quite understanding, and upgraded me to Business Class on the same flight.
I am a total fan of Emirates and always fly them when travelling to US.

[TKMCE]

Saanil

First of all let me make it clear that I am not blaming you for not reading the small print when you brought the ticket. It t is already clear from some of the responses here that you are not the first one to be guilty on that count nor will you be the last one. In fact thanks to you starting this thread, a lot many members of Team BHP will benefit and indeed will have a clear picture of what the rule is if you are a victim of overbooking on those airlines which choose to do so.

From my view point there is nothing un dignified or to be ashamed of to carry a copy of the relevant DGCA circular with you. When DGCA issued a circular which relaxed the earlier very stringent rules on aviation photography at Indian civil airports, many photography enthusiasts carried a copy of the circular till the airport security became fully familiar with the rules.

While I am not familiar with the latest situation at Mumbai, be aware that at some Indian airports, it is not the airline staff which does the check in but instead the staff of one of the authorized "ground handling" agencies. Again this is in line with the global practices. In such cases there will be a representative of the airline you are flying, near at hand and you can demand to speak to a senior staff of the airline who will definitely be aware of the rules.

To sum up, the situation came down to this.

a Airline in question informed that the flight was overbooked.
b The airline involved states up front that it may overbook flights, includes acceptance of the above fact as a condition before concluding the contract with the passenger . The airline also gave a clear pointer to the relevant Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) circular applicable to overbooking.

c The government regulator, DGCA through its relevant circular allows an airline to overbook flights and lays down clear guidelines to protect the passengers who may have to be denied boarding.

I am no lawyer but under the circumstances which consumer court is going to side with the passenger unless it was on the grounds of airline refusing to compensate the passenger in line with the requirements laid down??? The only grounds in this particular case may be that the airline refused to honor the DGCA guidelines by not informing the passengers at the airport about their rights. However keep in mind the airline will argue it has hidden nothing and states clearly the passengers rights in its conditions of carriage, the acceptance of which was a precondition before the ticket was issued.

Will any lawyers here reading this chose to comment???


The relevant DGCA circular is available in their website (www.dgca.nic.in) under

CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS
]SECTION 3 – AIR TRANSPORT
SERIES ‘M’ PART IV
ISSUE I, DATED 6TH AUGUST, 2010
(revision 1 -14 January 2011)

[scorpion_blore]

Whoa! This thread has got me worried. I've to catch a Jet Konnect flight in another 12 hours. Can't afford to miss this flight since i have a connecting flight from Jet Konnect lined up.

Thanks folks for this informative thread. Will be going to the airport at least 2.5 hours in advance.

I've already done web check-in for the domestic and international flight. So I guess it's a bit safe.

The compensation amount of 4k seems to be on the lower side. Even domestic flights cost more than 8k these days.

[alpha1]

I know about this rule ever since I started traveling on plane - and believe me it was really funny as well as shocking (I discovered this while reading the fine print on those booklet type tickets).

However, till date had not seen this happening - even though I travel regularly on extremely busy routes like Bombay-Delhi and show up quite late at the airports ...

Can someone please elucidate how this practice is actually allowed to continue by law?
Why can't the airlines simply offer the tickets for only the no of seats it has ...
Like every other business does.

Funny right if the same thing start happening at all aspects of life - like say you go to a pay first restaurant like KFC/McD etc
LMAO! Will it be termed fair?

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by Altocumulus

I had this experience on a return flight from Seattle. It turned out to be good though.

This is what usually happens - that when an economy passanger is not given a seat, he/she is upgraded to business class. But in our case even that was full. Our flight was to Rakjot and there are not many business class seats there (just 4-6 I think).

Originally Posted by scorpion_blore

Whoa! This thread has got me worried. I've to catch a Jet Konnect flight in another 12 hours. Can't afford to miss this flight since i have a connecting flight from Jet Konnect lined up.

Just wanted to clarify that this is not something which happens everyday or which happens on all air routes. A consultant friend of mine tells me that all airline operators have models based on probability of such things happening and in the long run the losses they have to suffer on overbooking (in terms of paying compensation to the affected passangers) is not material over a larger time frame.

I do not mean to scare people from traveling by air - just wanted to let people know that such a thing can happen and how to deal with it

Originally Posted by alpha1

However, till date had not seen this happening - even though I travel regularly on extremely busy routes like Bombay-Delhi and show up quite late at the airports ...

Why can't the airlines simply offer the tickets for only the no of seats it has ...
Like every other business does.

Funny right if the same thing start happening at all aspects of life - like say you go to a pay first restaurant like KFC/McD etc
LMAO! Will it be termed fair?

Hope you never have to see such a thing. Apparently this practice is followed world wide by all airline operators. After going through all this, even I started wondering why cannot airlines just follow the procedure adopted by Indian Railways (waitlisting etc.) I am sure people must have tried that and it must not be financially viable OR financially less profitable?