[green_ninja]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

By this logic, NFTs and Gold are no different as well.

Nope. Gold has actual industrial value if not just aspirational value. Every single piece of electronic item that you consider dear these days has a not so insignificant amount of gold in it. NFTs exist in La-La land.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

By this logic, NFTs and Gold are no different as well.

Huh! Gold is fungible and has intrinsic value. NFT has neither.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by green_ninja

Nope. Gold has actual industrial value if not just aspirational value. Every single piece of electronic item that you consider dear these days has a not so insignificant amount of gold in it. NFTs exist in La-La land.

Industrial value, aspirational value, intrinsic value. Call it whatever you want. The point is, anything is an asset because of the exact reason Samurai stated - Collective belief in society of that thing being valuable. And since when did things in LaLa land stop having value? Till the time there is a greater fool, anything and everything can have value.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Huh! Gold is fungible and has intrinsic value. NFT has neither.

What is the intrinsic value of 1 kg of 24 carat gold?

Didn’t you just say above that any asset is valuable because people believe in it? How does it make NFT and gold different then?


PS: I am a believer in gold over crypto and all other similar things.

[SmartCat]

Incidentally, industrial usage of Gold is just 10%. Remaining 90% buy Gold because it has a 3,000 year history of appreciating in value over time.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by warrioraks

Didn’t you just say above that any asset is valuable because people believe in it? How does it make NFT and gold different then?

If you don't understand that, I don't think I have the ability to explain it either. The gap is too much. I am not entering into the post-fact world you are inviting me into.

Originally Posted by warrioraks

What is the intrinsic value of 1 kg of 24 carat gold?

There is no absolute value. Gold has many use. It has been used for display of wealth, store of wealth as well as currency in practically every civilization. That alone made trade possible between countries separated by thousands of miles. One of the reasons why India ended up with so much gold even in medieval times is because of huge amount of exports to Rome. The world conquering Roman empire was spending significant part of their income on Indian imports, using gold. Nobody then wondered why they should value gold.

NFTs or cryptocurrency can be created by anyone in their bedroom. I sell my cat's fur if I can get people interested, and it would be fungible too since it can be exchanged. Too bad I don't have a cat.

[neeraj0272]

Originally Posted by green_ninja

Nope. Gold has actual industrial value if not just aspirational value. Every single piece of electronic item that you consider dear these days has a not so insignificant amount of gold in it. NFTs exist in La-La land.

Exactly. A point often overlooked in these discussions is about some properties of gold like being most ductile, most malleable, one of the best conductor of electricity and heat etc.
So rarity of gold results in a balance being made between it's use for jewellery and for industrial use. This balance is made through its price. If gold were to be more abundant in supply and hence cheaper then gold will replace some other materials in industrial use.

[Gansan]

Remember the movie Gold Finger in which the villain will try to nuke Fort Knox and destroy all the gold inside, so that his gold will become more valuable? The only way gold can lose it's value for someone is if it goes up in smoke, or is stolen. And nobody can create gold, there is only a finite supply. It is tangible.

A cryptocurrency is intangible, one has to believe in it like one believes in God. It can go up in smoke. If not by itself, then by a single order or law by a country's government if it feels their currency or powers are being threatened by the crypto. Anybody can create it. If not one particular crypto currency, then another one or many more of them. That is silly. There are only a couple of other precious metals apart from gold.

Stocks and money can also be intangible, but one can have them in physical form anytime if one so wishes.

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^No payments can be made with it. Because crypto is legal in India - as of now. But it is not legal tender.

I give two stones to legality. If I trade veggies with my neighbor. Govt's or any central institution has no business to intrude in my free right as I am not doing any harm to anyone.

There was no legal tender lets say for 1000s of years and yet humans lived peacefully.

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/

https://gadgets.ndtv.com/cryptocurre...urants-2508146

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/0...tos-as-payment

https://coinatmradar.com/

[Gansan]

^^ For thousands of years people did not wear clothes either.

So long as you barter your veggies with your neighbor, govt has no business to interfere. The moment a lot of neighbors indulge in veggie trade with a lot of other neighbors, and a medium of exchange is used, it becomes the govt's business. It can't be wished away.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by Samurai

If you don't understand that, I don't think I have the ability to explain it either. The gap is too much. I am not entering into the post-fact world you are inviting me into.

Samurai - I made a post yesterday and you questioned it with a logical statement. All I did was respond and show that your logical statement cuts both ways. Both pro-Crypto as well as against Crypto. I am not the flag-bearer or defender of crypto on this forum. And believe me when I say that I have no intention of inviting you in any pre/post-fact world. Let's agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Samurai

There is no absolute value. Gold has many use. It has been used for display of wealth, store of wealth as well as currency in practically every civilization.

Quoting an excerpt of your statement. Just replace the word 'Gold' with 'Crypto' in the statement above and see whether it fits. If you don't realize how gold and crypto are so different but still similar even after this small exercise. Then again let us agree to disagree and leave it here.

[CarNerd]

This Crypto Currency is more difficult to understand than The Matrix movie! I hope our farmers understand and use Bitcoins to trade!

What I know is we need the power of Super Computers to mine new Bitcoins. In case of currency, if you work or have business/service you get money. How will a common man get Bitcoins? Can anyone please explain?

[Thermodynamics]

One of my friend has been conned by Crypto trading agents.

Modus operandi would be something like this.

1. You would receive a social media group request such as in WhatsApp.
2. Some pretty fellow would get in to conversation and impersonate trust. The pretty fellow can very well be from opposite gender.
3. You'll be promised unrealistically high returns in a matter of months.
4. You are supposed to invest in three rounds and the entry round costs a menial 100$.
5. Since it is a small token you would want to try this out.
6. The agents allow you to trade in their websites. You can't get these websites through search engines. Links will be shared within group.
7. Very soon, your money will double and so would be your greed.
8. They ask for second round of investment. They are now asking 10000$.
9. The impersonator is in constant touch and keeps the trust level high. More group members start glorifying their achievements in discussions and you get carried away by overwhelming response. Your rationale gets overcast.
10. Your money quadruples and so is your desire to harvest.
11. But wait, you still have to play the third round. They are asking another 10 grands.
12. You don't have that much left in your kitty. You are also disappointed that they didn't inform you on the amount of investment required in subsequent rounds upfront.
13. Now you get into defensive mode as your antennae have finally erected.
14. You want to withdraw. They demand penalty.
15. You negotiate to deduct penalty and transfer the remaining.
16. End of conversation. Group vanished. Website vanished.
17. You can't do much as you did all these transactions at a foreign base. There have no Indian office, no point of contact and no clear regulatory or legal support for crypto transactions.

PS: I am providing the website name below for awareness purpose. Please don't click.
(77wtp)

The website name probably meant 7.7 lakhs went to pit.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Thermodynamics

1. You would receive a social media group request such as in WhatsApp.

Ohh! My number gets added to strange sounding crypto trading groups:



Now I know why!

[Fuldagap]

The world has been ridiculing cryptos for almost 10 years now. One part of the same world has made a lot of money out of it and doesn't seem likely that cryptos are anywhere to go anywhere soon.

One gentleman said a certain D could make a stupid NFT and use it to launder illicit money, well to be honest, having had dealt with such issues in official capacity I can assure the gentleman that money laundering has been here for more time than one can imagine and launderers have been using all sorts of methods currently in trend in that point in time of history. Cryptos or not, there is little that any agency in the world is able to control, even remotely, the 'smart minds' that find ever growing new ways to launder money while still using the traditional ways. Hawala for instance.

Technology is there, it depends on the user what is used for. NFTs and virtual land are being bought and sold not only for illicit purposes but also for legit reasons. An enthusiast thinks of buying unique Nike shoes for his avatar in the metaverse by Facebook or Microsoft or decentraland or bla bla bla to go to a virtual basketball game with his friends against the opponents. I'm not very convinced that certain basketball game will not happen in the virtual world with that enthusiast actually biying Nike shoes for his favourite basketball game. Here, basketball game being just one of the millions of other activites possible in the virtual world.

Technologies had been ridiculed when they were new. People were bewildered. Maybe it is the same now too. Only time will tell. Most cryptos will fade away but a certain few would remain.
People who know less sound very confident, people who know more are confused. Some are ridiculing, some are giving it a shot, and this has been going on for a decade now. Size of the market being close to 3 trillion dollars. I wish to see the conclusion soo, whatever it is!

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Size of the market being close to 3 trillion dollars.

Nickpicking, but this $3 trillion number is so misleading. That's because it does take much money to move a meme crypto from $1 million marketcap to $1 billion marketcap.

Instead, you should look at actual net volumes (inflows minus outflows) traded in all crypto exchanges and P2P networks. It works out to be roughly $1 billion (or thereabouts). That is, $1 billion incremental capital went into cryptos for investment/speculation in 2020. Eg, North American crypto market size estimates: