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Old 14th December 2017, 17:25   #136
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Just wanted to point out the absolutely HUGE Sell Price difference between Unocoin and Zebpay.

Rs. 80k !!!!

In short: Buy on Unocoin, sell on Zebpay (but cross-check prices on that day - who knows how things could change!).

Hope this helps someone save/earn/steal a few bucks

Attachment 1706075

Disclaimer: I have not yet actually sold any BTC on Zebpay.
Yep, that's arbitrage opportunity. And if someone can deposit USD on any leading International Exchanges and sell the same on India Exchanges the difference is huge.

For example: take the price of BTC on Kraken - It's ~$16,500 * 65 = Rs. 10,72,500 and sell it on Zebpay for Rs. 13,48,000. Profit = Rs. 2,75,500 less the Network and Exchange fees.

The very reason why i don't want to buy from any Indian Exchange. I have no interest in BTC but some other altcoins which are not available on any Indian Exchange.
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Old 14th December 2017, 18:01   #137
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Just wanted to point out the absolutely HUGE Sell Price difference between Unocoin and Zebpay.
Rs. 80k !!!!
In short: Buy on Unocoin, sell on Zebpay (but cross-check prices on that day - who knows how things could change!).
Hope this helps someone save/earn/steal a few bucks
Disclaimer: I have not yet actually sold any BTC on Zebpay.
These are bid/ask prices right? I don't think that's the way it works. What the numbers mean is -

UNOCOIN: if you want to buy, you have to pay Rs. 13.71 Lakhs. If you want to sell, you will get Rs. 12.68 Lakhs

ZEBPAY: If you want to buy, you have to pay Rs. 13.83 Lakhs. If you want to sell, you will get Rs. 13.48 Lakhs.

So, if you buy on UNOCOIN and sell on ZEBPAY, you will lose [13.71 Lakhs minus 13.48 Lakhs] = Rs. 30,000

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Originally Posted by statix View Post
Yep, that's arbitrage opportunity. And if someone can deposit USD on any leading International Exchanges and sell the same on India Exchanges the difference is huge. For example: take the price of BTC on Kraken - It's ~$16,500 * 65 = Rs. 10,72,500 and sell it on Zebpay for Rs. 13,48,000. Profit = Rs. 2,75,500 less the Network and Exchange fees. The very reason why i don't want to buy from any Indian Exchange. I have no interest in BTC but some other altcoins which are not available on any Indian Exchange.
Now this looks feasible. How long does it take to transfer the bitcoin purchased in a foreign exchange to Zebpay? Because prices change and so does the bid/ask prices.

Last edited by SmartCat : 14th December 2017 at 18:10.
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Old 14th December 2017, 18:10   #138
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

I think you guys might be reading too much into my post.

I'm not suggesting the possibility of arbitrage.

I'm simply saying that Unocoin has a better buy price than Zebpay, and Zebpay has a better sell price than Unocoin.

Am comparing buy price to buy price, and sell price to sell price.

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
So, if you buy on UNOCOIN and sell on ZEBPAY, you will lose [13.71 Lakhs minus 13.48 Lakhs] = Rs. 30,000
I'm saying that if you're selling 1 BTC, you'll get 80K more if you sell on Zebpay, rather than Unocoin.

Last edited by Rehaan : 14th December 2017 at 18:13.
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Old 14th December 2017, 18:36   #139
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Now this looks feasible. How long does it take to transfer the bitcoin purchased in a foreign exchange to Zebpay? Because prices change and so does the bid/ask prices.
From one BTC Address to another it usually takes 30mins (3 Confirmations). Never tried from any International Exchange to Indian Exchange because i don't have any mode to deposit USD in International Exchanges. My accounts are not verified yet and i don't know what's the procedure to deposit USD (Any light on this RBI Regulations, etc.)
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Old 14th December 2017, 18:46   #140
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From one BTC Address to another it usually takes 30mins (3 Confirmations). Never tried from any International Exchange to Indian Exchange because i don't have any mode to deposit USD in International Exchanges. My accounts are not verified yet and i don't know what's the procedure to deposit USD (Any light on this RBI Regulations, etc.)
If the international exchange accepts visa/mastercard credit card for deposits, you should be able to buy bitcoins using your credit card. RBI has only issued 'warnings' about dangers of trading in bitcoin (to protect buyers from risky assets) - they haven't specified any limits.
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Old 14th December 2017, 19:04   #141
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If the international exchange accepts visa/mastercard credit card for deposits, you should be able to buy bitcoins using your credit card. RBI has only issued 'warnings' about dangers of trading in bitcoin (to protect buyers from risky assets) - they haven't specified any limits.
I don't use a credit card. No one in my family does. And the charges/fees for buying with Credit Card is very high i've heard.
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Old 14th December 2017, 19:18   #142
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Seems like bitcoins are on authorities radar. They need to stop this nuisance in my opinion.

http://trak.in/tags/business/2017/12...changes-india/
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Old 14th December 2017, 21:25   #143
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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Seems like bitcoins are on authorities radar. They need to stop this nuisance in my opinion.

http://trak.in/tags/business/2017/12...changes-india/
Which nuisance? The cryptocurrencies or the raids


Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
These are bid/ask prices right? I don't think that's the way it works. What the numbers mean is -

UNOCOIN: if you want to buy, you have to pay Rs. 13.71 Lakhs. If you want to sell, you will get Rs. 12.68 Lakhs

ZEBPAY: If you want to buy, you have to pay Rs. 13.83 Lakhs. If you want to sell, you will get Rs. 13.48 Lakhs.

So, if you buy on UNOCOIN and sell on ZEBPAY, you will lose [13.71 Lakhs minus 13.48 Lakhs] = Rs. 30,000
I think he just wanted to highlight the huge differences across different service providers. But, in some rare instances, I have seen the BUY price of UNOCOIN being lesser than the SELL price of ZEBPAY. If the transfer across the different service providers could be done instantly, you can make a small profit, provided you have significant stock of Bitcoins with you.
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Old 14th December 2017, 21:54   #144
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

For those who want to buy BTC through International sites using credit cards, cex.io is a good option. The price being offered is way lower to what UNOCOIN or ZEBPAY charges. However cex.io transaction charges inorder to move them to a different exchange to convert BTC to another currency is on the higher side. There is also a minimum limit on how much BTC one can buy. When I tried, I had to buy 200 USD to be able to purchase the minimum prescribed BTC limit. With every transaction to load USD, they are charging 3.5 USD as commission and the commission to buy the BTC with the loaded USD is 13 USD. It could be different and I dont know what is the actual %age they charge.

Another great option which I havent tried yet is changelly.com. It enables the same, i.e. to buy the desired FIAT / crypto currency using the credit card and it can be moved to any desired wallet in the desired cryptocurrency. The transaction charges are just 0.5%. Will probably try this next month as I exceeded my limit on how much I wanted to spend.

Last edited by samabhi : 14th December 2017 at 21:57. Reason: Updated transaction charges
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Old 15th December 2017, 11:50   #145
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For those who want to buy BTC through International sites using credit cards, cex.io is a good option.
=========
Will probably try this next month as I exceeded my limit on how much I wanted to spend.
Any other way other than credit card for buying BTC from International Exchanges?

Thanks

Last edited by Jaggu : 15th December 2017 at 11:55. Reason: Please avoid Quoting entire large post for short replies. Thanks.
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Old 15th December 2017, 12:06   #146
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As per hashflare own estimates 1 year should yield 0.0569 BTC ( minus maintenance fee).
I did a cost comparison between hardware miners vs cloud mining pool. cloud mining works out to 1/3rd cost of HW miners (miner + power cost) for BTC.
Have started looking into building a rig for Etherum mining as HW works out cheaper in case of etherum- me and few collegues pooling money for that.
Which GPUs are you planning to use? Are they in stock?
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Old 15th December 2017, 13:03   #147
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Which GPUs are you planning to use? Are they in stock?
Still researching that. Meanwhile bought 7MH/S ETH mining contract from hashflare.
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Old 18th December 2017, 00:04   #148
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

Read an article about Bitcoin mentioning 5 myths about it.
Worth a read on a lazy Monday afternoon.

Quote:
This month, bitcoin, the digital currency launched by Satoshi Nakamoto in 2009, hit a record price of $17,428.42 per coin. It got its own futures market at a traditional brokerage firm, and it even earned a joke in a recent “Saturday Night Live” sketch. Perhaps because of its complicated technical design, zealous community of advocates and famously mysterious founding story (its creator was unknown for years), a variety of widespread myths about bitcoin have persisted. Here are five.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.e70c5c61ae35
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Old 18th December 2017, 07:27   #149
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Originally Posted by Ithaca View Post
Read an article about Bitcoin mentioning 5 myths about it.
Worth a read on a lazy Monday afternoon.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.e70c5c61ae35
Thank you Ithaca for this article. I am not surprised at the excitement and enthusiasm crypto-currency has stirred up. Human nature requires that every 10 or 15 years a new fool proof scheme come up that will make people rich by luck and little effort. The lure is too great to resist. The statements seen on this thread are identical to the ones we heard in 2000 (first dot.com), the Japanese heard in the 1980s (real estate), India heard in mid-1980s (Pherwani bull run) and so on. The technology factor was quoted ad nauseum in the first dot.com boom too. I only hope too many young BHPians don't lose their shirt and a lot more. But if the cycle is to be completed many shirts lost are most likely.
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Old 18th December 2017, 12:12   #150
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I got caught up badly at work for the last two weeks and couldn't reply.

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Before I read up, I used to think like everyone else- that this is a bubble that's waiting to pop. This is a waste of time, money and electricity. This is a scam. After reading up, I realized that I was grossly mistaken.
Fortunately, you were not at all mistaken.

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A lot of people compared this rise in value (I'm not saying price-value is the right term) to the Tulip mania in 17th century Europe. The problem is that the Tulip story is false. It was created by religious zealots to restrain the free markets. It was a propaganda.
It need to not be true. Tulip mania is a very useful parable. All the holy books of the world are full of such parables, which obviously didn't happen, but often teach a moral/practical lesson.

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Secondly, the original intention of creating a cryptocurrency was to bypass the banks.
Bypassing banks is practically a white collar crime these days.

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The creators of Bitcoin solved the challenges that made duplication impossible. That's what makes it so powerful- it is distributed across half a million computers and not one can control it. Yes, each token is is just a piece of code.
They solved a technological problem of transactional veracity using blockchains. They didn't solve any economics/finance problem. Quantitative easing is a not a problem to solve, it is a tool which is often misused. Like a knife, it can be used for good and bad. But doing away with all sharp objects (like knife) to save lives, will create a big problem in the kitchen.

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I'm not sure if I got your question correctly. Are you talking about value in terms of jobs and societal benefits vs. wealth concentration in the hands of a few individuals? If that's the question, I don't know.
This is usually the case for people like us who studied economics via MBA route. Business schools avoid (intentionally I suppose) focusing on the developmental side of economics. It hurts the business if business students develop scruples. But People who studied economics via humanities generally have better handle on this. If wealth generation is not matched by production in any given economy (local/national/global), it leads to massive income inequality and inflation.

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That's because no one till today has estimated the wealth generation vs. value creation quotient (if such a term exists- I'm not sure it does) for any company, and expecting that benchmark to be applied to a new set of currencies is perhaps a bit too much.
Companies don't. Such calculations are usually done at state/national level, by economists who are are from the humanities background. That is why governments are never run like business. At least, they shouldn't be. The current US administration is an exception.

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You may say that people use gold to store their savings. Well, many of them are using Bitcoin to do that.
The role of any wealth storage instrument is to nullify the effect of inflation. When it does more than that, it is a bubble in the making.

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Economics is not a subject that I can claim to be an expert in. All I can say is that I've read a bit about it in my undergraduate years and during my MBA.
Economics is a social science. Studying economics via business schools route gives a very mathematical understanding of economics. It completely leaves out the human side of this social science. It took me over a decade to realize this, and start changing my thinking.

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Based on the little knowledge that I have, it seems a bit presumptuous to claim that people who're behind bitcoins did not know what they were doing. Something that grows so fast (and becomes mainstream so quickly) must have something going for it, and I guess the Wall Street investors won't be bothered to look at it if it were a fraud.
I have closely watched four bubbles in my adult life, the 1992 Indian stock market bubble, the dot-com bubble of 1999, sub-prime bubble of 2007-8, and now the crypto bubble. Is it presumptuous for a guy who has been burnt a few times to think fire is dangerous? Why did the hallowed wall street investors bother to look at dot-com bubble (I lived 50miles from Wall street, working in a dot-com company then) despite it being a fraud? I knew it was a bubble although I hadn't started my MBA then. But greed overcomes all knowledge and caution. Even the most knowledgeable wall street investor succumbs to greed when the bubble is growing. They just think they will get out before it bursts.

Most successful investors are not expert economists or financial geniuses. Instead, they operate using instinct/SOP/model that usually works for them. Sometimes, they succumb to greed, overextend, and lose their shirt. Sorry, I have been around the block too many times to assign any clairvoyance to investors, just because they are good at making money.
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