[ashokrajagopal]

Originally Posted by ragh_bhushan

No Sir. I have a very basic understanding of economics and I am just a techie. However I would like to quote one Noble prize winning economist Paul Krugman's view on Internet from 1998.

"By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's"

I personally think Bitcoin is internet of money. I rest my case.

How is a personal thought process an argument for anything ? The quote itself is about internet.

Originally Posted by ragh_bhushan

Nobody can explain Bitcoin using conventional economics/finance. That would be unfair to both technology as well as economics.


The "value behind Bitcoin" point has been discussed at length in the previous posts. I do not have anything further to add.


So what is the context of his current views on Bitcoin? Another thought provoking idea or careful forecasting?


Accepting Bitcoin as a currency cannot happen until the price stabilises. When will it stabilised? Maybe once there is enough adoption. Right now less than 2.5% people in the world hold Bitcoin. This percentage needs to go up for the price to stabilise.



They won't hoard it if the price does not move much. Best feature of blockchain is a relative term. What's good for individuals might be bad for banks. And what works for banks and governments might not be good for individuals. Decentralised and distributed system is the best feature in my personal opinion but that doesn't really work for our financial institutions.

1. Nobody can explain it using conventional or shall I say normal economics because it is not something to be used for it. People usually have the tendency to have this hunch about the use, but there has never been a clear explanation at all.

2. The "value" has not been discussed; you just explained some thing about "immutable" and the discussion drifted into religious philosophy. That the value is the volume of energy spent and proof of effort and stuff like that is a very arbitrary statement nowhere related to fiscal policy.

3. Stable price.
This is exactly where the bitcoin advocates take a U-turn.
Bitcoin has a stable value of say $100. I guess the majority of bitcoin holders are expecting a stabilization at some point.
If this is the equilibrium position, please tell me what exactly is bitcoin ?
Ultimately if the destination is to be something like an Amazon coupon code which is pegged to a Fiat currency, what exactly is achieved by the whole waste of energy and effort ?

[ashokrajagopal]

Originally Posted by Samurai

In US, the moment you sell any bitcoin, you get slapped with 20% capital gains tax. The IRS gets the reports directly from crypto exchanges, so there is no real escape. As a result, lots of people are not cashing out.

Okay, but this is only if the encashing happens within exchanges under the govt mandate right. I may not be completely clear on this, but bitcoins bought it US can move out and be encashed anywhere outside their legislation, right ? Which means it is still outside the regulation.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal

Okay, but this is only if the encashing happens within exchanges under the govt mandate right. I may not be completely clear on this, but bitcoins bought it US can move out and be encashed anywhere outside their legislation, right ? Which means it is still outside the regulation.

US citizens can't escape tax no matter where they live. They are also expected to pay tax on overseas assets. If they don't pay, they are committing criminal offense, and are liable to be imprisoned. Even famous people can't escape it.

[SmartCat]

There is now a rating agency called Weiss Ratings and they have given Bitcoin a C+ Rating (fair) and Ethereum B Rating
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/weis...n-bitcoin.html

Those who are using digital wallets, read this article - there are lots of fraudulent apps on app stores that steal your cryptocurrencies
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryp...-download-now/

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by smartcat

There is now a rating agency called Weiss Ratings and they have given Bitcoin a C+ Rating (fair) and Ethereum B Rating
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/weis...n-bitcoin.html

Those who are using digital wallets, read this article - there are lots of fraudulent apps on app stores that steal your cryptocurrencies
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryp...-download-now/

I thought BitCoin was a currency. How can they rate a currency? Maybe these ratings are subjective/qualitative price targets?

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Saanil

I thought BitCoin was a currency. How can they rate a currency? Maybe these ratings are subjective/qualitative price targets?

Currencies can have ratings - a country's rating (AAA, BBB etc) is essentially a currency rating. Weiss' cryptocurrency ratings are based on -

The Cryptocurrency Risk Index. A composite of sub-indexes that measure (a) relative and absolute price fluctuations over multiple time frames, (b) declines from peak to trough in terms of frequency and magnitude, (c) market bias, whether up or down, and other factors.

The Cryptocurrency Reward Index. A composite of sub-indexes that evaluate (a) returns compared to moving averages, (b) absolute returns compared to a benchmark, (c) smoothed returns compared to a benchmark, and other factors.

The Cryptocurrency Technology Index. A composite of sub-indexes calculated by a manual analysis of publicly available white papers, public discussion forums or announcements, and open source code to evaluate the protocols underlying each cryptocurrency. Factors considered include the level of anonymity, sophistication of monetary policy, governance capabilities, the ability or flexibility to improve code, energy efficiency, scaling solutions, interoperability with other blockchains and many more.

The Cryptocurrency Fundamental Index. A composite of sub-indexes that evaluate transaction speed and scalability, market penetration, network security, decentralization of block production, network capacity, developer participation, public acceptance, plus other key factors.

Source: https://weisscryptocurrencyratings.com/

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by smartcat

There is now a rating agency called Weiss Ratings and they have given Bitcoin a C+ Rating (fair) and Ethereum B Rating
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/weis...n-bitcoin.html

Those who are using digital wallets, read this article - there are lots of fraudulent apps on app stores that steal your cryptocurrencies
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryp...-download-now/

I wouldn't trust a rating agency which rates both Ethereum and a CryptoCurrency distributing as a token on the Ethereum Blockchain (EOS) the exact same rating (B).

This is while Neo, which also has a working Blockchain of its own (much faster than ETH) and much higher investment potential (undervalued by comparison) has received a lower rating (B-).

[V.Narayan]

For the believers and the doubters....

Japan cryptocurrency exchange to refund stolen $400m to 260,000 customers

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...und-stolen-nem

Japan cryptocurrency exchange to refund stolen $400m
Coincheck will reimburse 260,000 customers who lost holdings of NEM currency

A Japan-based cryptocurrency exchange will refund to customers about $400m (£282m) stolen by hackers two days ago in one of the biggest thefts of digital funds.

Coincheck said it would use its cash to reimburse about 46.3bn yen to the 260,000 people who lost their holdings of NEM, the world’s 10th-biggest cryptocurrency by market capitalisation. On Friday, the company detected an “unauthorised access” of the exchange and later suspended trading for all cryptocurrencies apart from bitcoin. Coincheck said its NEM coins were stored in a hot wallet instead of the more secure cold wallet, which is kept offline, because of technical difficulties and a shortage of staff capable of dealing with them.
The resulting 58bn yen loss exceeded the value of bitcoin that disappeared from MtGox in 2014. The Tokyo-based bitcoin exchange collapsed after admitting that 850,000 coins, worth around $480m at the time, had disappeared from its vaults.
MtGox’s high-profile demise failed to dampen the enthusiasm for virtual currencies in Japan, which became the first country to define cryptocurrencies as legal tender in April last year. Nearly one-third of global bitcoin transactions were denominated in yen last month, according to the specialist website jpbitcoin.com. As many as 10,000 businesses in Japan are thought to accept bitcoin, and bitFlyer, the country’s main bitcoin exchange, saw its user base pass the 1 million mark in November.

Many Japanese people, especially younger investors, have been seduced by the idea of strong profits as the economy has seen years of ultra-low interest rates offering little in the way of traditional returns. On Sunday, major newspapers in the country labelled the management of virtual currencies at Coincheck as “sloppy” and said the company had “expanded business by putting safety second”. Local media said the Financial Services Agency was expected to take action against Coincheck, which calls itself “the leading bitcoin and cryptocurrency exchange in Asia”.

Japan started to require cryptocurrency exchange operators to register with the government last April. Pre-existing operators such as Coincheck have been allowed to continue offering services while awaiting approval. Coincheck’s application, submitted in September, is pending.

Politicians meeting last week at the World Economic Forum in Davos issued warnings about the dangers of cryptocurrencies, with the US Treasury secretary, Steven Mnuchin, relating Washington’s concern about them being used for illegal activity.

As I have written earlier in the wake of seemingly easy pickings it is inevitable that hackers, forgers and bank robbers will follow close on the heels. The doubters will read 'stolen'. The believers will read 'refund'. To each his own. Like a great murder mystery the plot churns.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

For the believers and the doubters. Japan cryptocurrency exchange to refund stolen $400m to 260,000 customers. As I have written earlier in the wake of seemingly easy pickings it is inevitable that hackers, forgers and bank robbers will follow close on the heels. The doubters will read 'stolen'. The believers will read 'refund'. To each his own. Like a great murder mystery the plot churns.

What's amazing is the kind of profits these exchanges are making. No wonder Coincheck is promising to refund the stolen currency. US based Coinbase apparently clocked $1 billion in revenues in 2017
https://www.recode.net/2018/1/22/169...enue-secondary

If you need something to compare that with, National Stock Exchange (NSE) clocked revenues of around $350 million while Bombay Stock Exchange (BSE) clocked revenues of around $120 million in FY17. Exchanges are extremely profitable. NSE has a net profit margin of 50%! Now this might turn out to be another California Gold Rush story - those who sold shovels and pickaxes made all the money, while most gold diggers returned empty handed.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by smartcat

What's amazing is the kind of profits these exchanges are making. No wonder Coincheck is promising to refund the stolen currency. US based Coinbase apparently clocked $1 billion in revenues in 2017

That is the tragedy. When a service to support and enable speculation can earn so much it is discouraging to take the risk and effort to produce real goods and services needed by the economy and consumers. Why should entrepreneurs and farmers invest risk capital to produce goods, hold inventory, distribute products etc to earn a operating margin of 25% and a PAT of 7%. I guess that's how farmers feel vis-a-vis the rich city dweller.

[Samurai]

"The government does not consider cryptocurrency as legal tender and will work towards eliminating illicit transactions going on through crypto assets," says Finance Minister Arun Jaitley during the Budget speech.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Samurai

"The government does not consider cryptocurrency as legal tender and will work towards eliminating illicit transactions going on through crypto assets," says Finance Minister Arun Jaitley during the Budget speech.

As soon as FM started talking about cryptocurrencies, it fell 6%. And there was a further fall in global markets - bitcoin trading below $10,000 levels.

Net damage: 17% fall in bitcoin prices so far today.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Samurai

What if the governments around the world start banning bitcoins because of they can't control it? What happens to this perceived value?

And now they have done it in India.

The government will take measures to eliminate use of crypto-assets in financing illegitimate activities or as part of the payment system, the finance minister said.

Source

[Rachit.K.Dogra]

As most people, I did some reading around this topic as well. My colleague got very pumped up and started following this concept a lot and eventually I took interest as well.

However, there one thing which I am not able to understand. What complex problems are miners solving to mine a coin? What are these huge complex problems that need so much processing power? Who comes up with these problems? Are these problems of any significance to common man? Like maybe feather forecasting calculations?

Rachit

[ragh_bhushan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

And now they have done it in India.

Maybe my interpretation of Mr. Jaitley's quote today is inaccurate but he has said nothing new and just repeated what he has been saying for months. There is no ban on buying, holding or selling Bitcoins in India. Another case of poor reporting.

The government does not recognise cryptocurrency as legal tender or coin and will take all measures to eliminate the use of these cryptoassets in financing illegitimate activities or as part of the payments system.

Can the government ban cryptocurrencies? Of course they can but till now they haven't. Also, I did not understand what is the point really Mr. Jaitley is trying to make here. "...will take all measures to eliminate the use of these cryptoassets in financing illegitimate activities..."

What currency or assets can be used to finance illegitimate activities?