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Old 15th November 2017, 10:56   #61
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

Guys, any change Team BHP has started using mining services for revenue? Or there has been a security breach / hack?

Most members from here in Pune are observing Coin Hive mining when their Team BHP site opens and CPU usage spiking to near 100. Most companies have blocked Team BHP for invoking this script. Please investigate if this is security breach or if the hosting provider is invoking scripts on your behalf?
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Old 15th November 2017, 13:38   #62
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Guys, any change Team BHP has started using mining services for revenue? Or there has been a security breach / hack?
Hi jagzrk,

No we haven't started using mining services. There was a breach last night - but it has been resolved now.

The site should now load without any warnings or problems. Please let me know in case you or anyone else is still facing issues...
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Old 1st December 2017, 11:46   #63
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

Anyone here made investments in Crypto currencies? Would you mind sharing your experience? I'm seeing some forecasts around BTC and ETH prices and from what I see it looks like a good (but heavily risky) investment vehicle.

Unlike oil / gas prices which to some extent linear by nature, a forecast on them would be more accurate, but on the other hand I have my doubts around those forecasting techniques for Crypto's as they are non-linear and heavily volatile, but seems like they manage to predict with some degree of accuracy! What do you guys think about this?
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Old 1st December 2017, 19:16   #64
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Currencies without intrinsic value should never be used as storage of wealth. This holds good for fiat currency, as well as crypto-currencies.
Well in that case the only good "currencies" (for storage of wealth) are water, food, energy and space.

Rest all is plain fad.

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... but most governments will frown upon you if you try using it as currency since it affects collection of sales tax. So these cryptocurrencies will make hay for a while, until governments around the world get a handle over it, and figure out how to control it.
How can any Govt control what public uses as a currency? Via Law.
But then these financial transactions - operating via Internet - can they really be controlled by law?

Only till they don't involve Govt.
E.g. Govt can exercise real control over disbursement of money for goods or service purchased by it.
But it has no actual control over what currency I use to transact the goods and services exchanged with you.

Which makes it much better instrument (for general public) than Fiat currencies and monetary policies to fix the screwed up fiscal policies.

But running a welfare state in the land of cryptocurrency may be a difficult proposition.
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Old 1st December 2017, 22:11   #65
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

@alpha1 and investors who are well versed with cryptocurrency one question, when I started thinking of investing 1 bitcoin was 2.8L and by the time I overcame my apprehensions and completed KYC it is 8.5L. I literally saw it go out of my reach in mere months. Is this a good time then to invest at such high levels? If so, what should be an investment strategy?
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Old 1st December 2017, 22:42   #66
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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How can any Govt control what public uses as a currency? Via Law.
But then these financial transactions - operating via Internet - can they really be controlled by law? Only till they don't involve Govt.
E.g. Govt can exercise real control over disbursement of money for goods or service purchased by it. But it has no actual control over what currency I use to transact the goods and services exchanged with you.
But you will use Rupees one way or the other while transacting in bitcoins right? .

1) When you buy some digital currency (bitcoins) using your fiat currency (INR)
2) When you liquidate your digital assets (bitcoins) to get some fiat currency (INR, for buying that Merc)

After all, you earn in Rupees and do most of your spending in Rupees. How can you say for sure that there will be no interference by the Govt/RBI?
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Old 1st December 2017, 23:16   #67
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Well in that case the only good "currencies" (for storage of wealth) are water, food, energy and space.
I meant currencies as in cash, which is what cryptocurrency was supposed to be.

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But it has no actual control over what currency I use to transact the goods and services exchanged with you.

Which makes it much better instrument (for general public) than Fiat currencies and monetary policies to fix the screwed up fiscal policies.
Are you suggesting none of us should pay sales tax or GST? Why will the government not step in?
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Old 4th December 2017, 13:27   #68
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
when I started thinking of investing 1 bitcoin was 2.8L and by the time I overcame my apprehensions and completed KYC it is 8.5L. I literally saw it go out of my reach in mere months. Is this a good time then to invest at such high levels? If so, what should be an investment strategy?
I'll tell you a similar story, then you decide

When I started thinking of investing, 1 bitcoin was 1.2L and by the time I overcame my apprehensions and completed KYC it was 2.8L. I literally saw it go out of my reach in mere months. Nonetheless, I still bought a fraction of a bitcoin at 3L (avg price) ....and now it is 8L

Also:
Quote:
saw it go out of my reach
Just in case there's any confusion; you don't have to buy a whole bitcoin. You can even buy 0.0001 of a bitcoin or less.

Last edited by Rehaan : 4th December 2017 at 13:29.
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Old 4th December 2017, 14:11   #69
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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when I started thinking of investing 1 bitcoin was 2.8L and by the time I overcame my apprehensions and completed KYC it is 8.5L.
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
When I started thinking of investing, 1 bitcoin was 1.2L and by the time I overcame my apprehensions and completed KYC it was 2.8L. I literally saw it go out of my reach in mere months. Nonetheless, I still bought a fraction of a bitcoin at 3L (avg price) ....and now it is 8L
Can somebody explain me why this is not the greatest bubble in the history of the world?

Anything that is appreciating so fast is not at all useful as a transnational currency. Why would you give it away to buy something, if it keeps going up in price like this?

So it is nothing but an artificial store of wealth that keeps growing. But how? It has no intrinsic value. It doesn't finance any kind of production or service or entrepreneurship, or create jobs. The price is growing because of insatiable demand to own it by investors, and there is a finite supply of it, and newer supply is harder and harder to produce. Bitcoin is the new gold, and what's is happening now is the California Gold rush. At least, gold has intrinsic value. But bitcoin is a bunch of numbers. We will reach an inflection point, when a key set of investors realise they are running after bunch of made up numbers, and start a fire sale. In future some day, people will talk about this decade like current economists talk about Tulip mania of 17th century.

And now, I want to talk about one of the promises of bitcoin, how it doesn't cause inflation. May be it won't cause inflation if it was used primarily as currency. But the reality is very different now. Bitcoin is a massively appreciating store of wealth. It has created thousands of millionaires around the world who have not created any value or jobs in return. Let's say your city suddenly has a whole bunch of bitcoin millionaires. They cash out and start spending their new wealth. What happens when all these new cash floods your city? Real estate prices will jump, malls and restaurants will make brisk business, some jobs will be created too. This results in Demand-pull inflation, a situation where the demand outstrips the ability of the economy to produce. Basically, increase in consumption doesn't match the raise in production, since bitcoin price appreciation is not linked to production.

I feel this bitcoin bubble is going to hurt the economy real bad some day. Question is not if, but when.
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Old 4th December 2017, 14:30   #70
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

Bitcoin is unlikely to create wealth despite rising value - because of human behavior (greed and fear). This is especially true if you have not experienced stock market rise and crashes.

Let's say you have invested Rs. 1 Lakh in Bitcoins and it has now become Rs. 5 Lakhs. Now what is more likely? Will you sell off because you made Rs. 4 Lakh profit? Or will you invest more savings into Bitcoin because "it is going up"?

Rising prices means it will continue to keep sucking in your savings - because of greed factor. And it is very likely that sometime in the future, it will crash and then you will make an exit at a lower price - because of fear factor. The fear of losing everything. Even if we assume that something like 75% crash in value is temporary, many first time speculators in volatile assets will lose money. Because you would have bought more and more bitcoins at higher and higher prices - thereby increasing your average purchase price.

Regarding value of bitcoin -

1) Some say bitcoin is the poor man's Cayman Islands. The value of bitcoins is derived from that utility.

2) This guy here says the fair value of bitcoin is $50,000 in the year 2025. I'm not quite sure how he arrived at that value though. Gentlemen - please check this link and let us know if it makes sense
https://www.investopedia.com/article...self-guide.asp

Last edited by SmartCat : 4th December 2017 at 14:35.
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Old 4th December 2017, 14:38   #71
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Can somebody explain me why this is not the greatest bubble in the history of the world?
For me it was simple.

I left out all the understanding of principles of economics, the interpretations of the same, nay-sayers, believers and pundits.

I had just one question: Do i think the value is going to go up?

Answer was a pretty certain "yes", so i bought.


Now I'm left with the more difficult question of when I should sell
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Old 4th December 2017, 15:45   #72
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Now I'm left with the more difficult question of when I should sell
Strategy No. 1:

Sell Bitcoins worth Rs. 3 Lakhs right away and hold the rest. You got your capital back. When to sell the remaining lot, you figure that out later.

Strategy No. 2:

Choose a number - 10K or 20K or 30K or whatever. Sell bitcoins worth that number (Rs. 10k per month or Rs. 20k per month) at the end of each month. This way, you will be continuously selling bitcoins as it goes up (and down).
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Old 4th December 2017, 15:46   #73
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I left out all the understanding of principles of economics, the interpretations of the same, nay-sayers, believers and pundits.
I understand you are wearing the trader's cap for this one. That is fine as long as you understand the risk and didn't invest your life savings.
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1) Some say bitcoin is the poor man's Cayman Islands. The value of bitcoins is derived from that utility.
Yes, this may happen a lot. It is a great money laundering instrument.

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
2) This guy here says the fair value of bitcoin is $50,000 in the year 2025. I'm not quite sure how he arrived at that value though. Gentlemen - please check this link and let us know if it makes sense
https://www.investopedia.com/article...self-guide.asp
Finance guys like him were also waxing eloquent about solid opportunities in triple-A rated mortgage derivatives 10-12 years ago.

He got one thing right though... Bitcoin has value because people think it has value. Now combine that with the wellknown fact that most people are sheeple. That means they follow the herd, when bitcoin goes up, and when it goes down.

What if the governments around the world start banning bitcoins because of they can't control it? What happens to this perceived value?
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Old 4th December 2017, 15:59   #74
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

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Can somebody explain me why this is not the greatest bubble in the history of the world?
This is exactly what I have been thinking since few days. Everyday I read about someone who has bitcoins wroth millions or billions. To be honest, there are many stories of how people have sold a tiny fraction of their coins and cashed out ridiculously large sum of money. However, why does bitcoin have any value? It is just an imaginary number.

Coming to think of it, currencies have value since they are backed by respective government. The money in my pocket is dear to me since Government of India assures that I can buy goods from it and that I will be able to buy same amount of goods in near future as well. If this promise isn't there, why would I bother keeping paper in my pocket?

Bitcoin I feel is shaping up like a commodity rather than currency. Just like everyone buys gold not for trading but as investment, same is happening with Bitcoin. This really makes me wonder, can something abstract like Bitcoin replace gold or silver as investment instrument? Maybe our collective love for precious metal will be replaced with collective love for cryptocurrencies (?).

Also, another side of story which has now started surfacing. There are people who are taking loans and mortgaging property to raise funds for buying Bitcoins. What if Bitcoin value crashes and people start defaulting on loans. Would be so stupid to read that an abstract cryptocurrency kickstarted another financial crisis.
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Old 4th December 2017, 16:01   #75
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Default Re: The Cryptocurrency Thread (Bitcoin, Ripple etc.)

I am surrounded by BitCoin investors. Out 10 people, in my team, 8 are invested into crypto currency. I am the one of two who is keeping out of this game. Daily discussions run around this topic and through these discussions I found that all these 8 people are Monkey investors, I call them monkey because they do not know anything about economics but they are following and guided by one big time crypto investor. The one big time investor had made more than 1 crore of wealth in crypto currency. Others have bought dream of Crypto currency is the future.

I am staying away from this sham because my sense says that this is not the future. Definitely, Crypto has potential to replace Gold Standards for currencies, but there is no currency today which is relying on gold standards. Everybody moved away from Gold Standard because Governments wanted more control. And there no substatial reason that world will move again to Gold Standard from Fiat Currency. So I assume that there is no chance for Crypto Currencies as well.

Now logic of having thousands of different crypto currencies, Altcoins is not adding any sense. If you want to bring one crypto to replace Gold standard then why are you having thousands of altcoins.

One more illogical point I see in crypto that control of currency. Fiat Currencies, share markets are controlled and regulated by Governments. But cryptos are controlled by developers. Who are they to decide the future course? basically they are really powerful people these days. They decide when to do hard fork, when to upgrade algorithm of blockchain and in turn control the trading market situations. If they want they can bring all investors to their knees. They can ruin the life of many people in one stroke.

If this is scene according to my understanding, then I do not understand why people are investing in it. Aren't these simple things eveybody should understand. Many people are invested because they want to exit the right time. And definition of right time is the problem and they remain invested forever due to their greed. Their greed is making them to invest into crap currencies which are increasing 10 times in a day, sometimes falling.

I believe that value is going to increase further and increase a lot. But the day it starts falling, it will become zero. The day it starts falling there will be no buyer. It will behave same as penny stock. I always try to warn about this to friends but no use. Because you never know when is the peak and when is the time, it could be now or it could be several years away.

Edit: I get lot of queries from my rural friends about bitcoin. And these friends easily buy the dream of overnight Millionaire. I am really afraid of these people, what will happen to them if this turns out to be bubble. One question really comes in my mind, is Government Really sleeping? Why are they waiting for catastrophe failure? Same questions I always get when I see QNet MLM thing. Money is going out of India just like that. Are we waiting for economic disaster?

Last edited by sushantr5 : 4th December 2017 at 16:12.
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