The Company Bonds & Employee Agreement Discussion

kutlee · 12th September 2006, 16:46

Hi all,
I am having issues with bonded labour with a firm in India.
The story goes like this...
I joined a firm with 3 years bond for 2 laks (company was doing well and offer looked good). but after year, due to sep11, went down, no one was laid off, but there wasn't any hike in salary, perks were cut etc. But when things were getting well, hikes were meager(they might have got the taste of paying low). so they have moved away from their initial promise, which showed hikes after each half year. So i asked them to releave of the bond and i have another excellent offer and i want to go. They didn't and i left with a letter saying i am leaving. This happened after 1.5 years.
Now they have sent Decree to collect money. the amount is 2.85 laks.
They have sent court notices etc. And i used some high profile political contacts, and the CEO told there won't be any further proceedings from their side and we were left in peace. Now all of a sudden there is a court decree and demand of paying money.
Meanwhile some of my friends(lawer) told me that they infact have to prove 2 laks worth of damage etc for them to win the case. also there is some supreme court ruling which says bonded labour is invalid etc etc..
can anyone shed light on this?
I can accept that there has been few mistakes on my part.
Do i still stand a chance?
Whats the way to go?
If anyone needs more details to help me, i can PM them.
Many thanks,
Mahesh.

ajmat · 12th September 2006, 16:53

I know very little on this but can you prove

1: Your performance was above par and that the hikes did not reflect your skills
2: Were the promises of hikes documentd ?
3: Can they prove 2 lakhs worth of training
4: Can you prove that you have added revenue of Rs 5 lakhs or more

Who issued the decree - can you check back with courts to ascetain that the document actually came from the court

kutlee · 12th September 2006, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

I know very little on this but can you prove

1: Your performance was above par and that the hikes did not reflect your skills
2: Were the promises of hikes documentd ?
3: Can they prove 2 lakhs worth of training
4: Can you prove that you have added revenue of Rs 5 lakhs or more

Who issued the decree - can you check back with courts to ascetain that the document actually came from the court

Thanks Ajmat,
1. My offer from another company was atleast three times the salary i was getting there. The second company is not obviously mad if am not worth it.
2. The hikes for each 6 months is there in the offer letter.
3. They had sent for training outside. I was in a batch of 10 people and duration of 20 days. Full flegded training for the same program for a full course of 3 months now costs below 50k.
4. This i can't. Because revenue part is with them. Also if they can't make use of me to take atleast 50% of what they spent on me in 1.5 years its their mistake i think.

Harrie · 12th September 2006, 18:01

A similar thing happened to one of my friends. But he was with a big manufacturing company. He was served a court notice. They claim 2L for training imparted and facilities usage. He is contesting claiming he was made to work under un healthy dangerous situations and that the management didnt heed to his complaints.

kutlee,

I guess you can contest on basis of what Ajmat has said. In most cases the companies will not press for a refund because of the bad publicity it would bring if the news leaks out to the press. Try your luck, contest the case. As in many other cases they'll probably not take it up if they find you putting your foot down.

DueLLeR · 12th September 2006, 18:05

Hi Kutlee,

I had a similar experience with a BPO. I quit the company after 2 months of training. They were after me to pay them the training charges, but I hadn't signed any bond. Of course, I didn't pay them anything. They kept calling and I kept ignoring. Now the issue is put to rest.

As far as I know, no Indian company can engage an employee under anything remotely connected to bonded labour. Meaning, you can quit when you wish. But companies often twist the meaning using complicated, legal words. So the 2 odd lakhs that they want from you might actually be something like a 'quit without notice' charge. In my opinion, you should show the document that you signed (the 2 lakh bond document) to a lawyer and find out the exact implications.

Also, it is highly unlikely that a company will file a case against an employee for such a huge amount unless there is a serious issue or personal grudge.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

condor · 12th September 2006, 18:44

kutlee, while this is not 'bonded labor', one can see the problems you are facing.

Do you have a copy of the terms & conditions of employment that you had signed when you joined the company? Either way, approach a lawyer so you will know exactly where you stand.

All the best.

sbasak · 12th September 2006, 19:20

What's the name of the company?

jango · 12th September 2006, 20:11

Is there any website which talks abt bonded labor in INDIA !!

elf · 12th September 2006, 20:38

You may be OK if the bond is tied to your employment contract, as there may be a breach of contract. If not, you're screwed.

If they already have a Court Decree, it's gotten quite serious, & you haven't attended court yet or haven't posted full details of your case.

You now need to go to court yourself & have the Decree stayed or vacated. Get yourself a good lawyer, or if you're really stuck, PM me or call me (+91 98210 62904) & let me see what I can do.

All the best.

sammyboy · 12th September 2006, 20:56

Kutlee ,I can understand what you must be gong through .Bonds are something which a lot of companies started because of the high attrition rates and loss of valuable manpower .The issue that you are facing is something a lot of us face could be by not reading the fine print on the contracts or some unfortunate reasons like the 9/11 in your case.Its highly imperative that before signing any contract you consult a good lawyer and discuss the pros and cons of getting bound by the legal thread.
But whats done is done ... As a lot of our fellow members have suggested , get in touch with a good lawyer who can fight the case on the basis of the company not having fulfilled its obligations to you by giving you what was promised (i assume it is in black and white).

All the best bro ,hope things work out for you.

condor · 12th September 2006, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutlee

I can accept that there has been few mistakes on my part.

Do not accept anything - esp mistakes.

Is it a decree or a lawyer's notice? A notice is what they would send through their lawyers. A decree is what the court gives after hearings. So - first thing - do not panic. Since you have got the notice, it is very important that you send a reply through a lawyer.

* Will you be able to prove that there was in-sufficient work in the company?
* Will they be able to prove that your performance was not satisfactory?
* Did you serve the notice period?
* Do you have a relieving letter from the company? What does it say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

4: Can you prove that you have added revenue of Rs 5 lakhs or more

Ajmat, would you be referring to any project that he has been part of, in an active/non-minor role?

kutlee · 13th September 2006, 10:31

Thanks to all you guys.
As far as the bond thing goes, The bond is completely unilateral. But i would not sign a bond unless the offer seems good to me (eventhough there is nothing mentioned in the bond). I have a court decree which was dated Nov 2005 and it reached my home only yesterday. Already arranged my parents to pick up good lawer and do whatever needed.
There is another twist in the story. The company has reduced the bond from 3 years to two years in a few months after i left the firm. I have proof. Because my wifey joined in one month before and left with pukka releiving after two years. She too had signed bond for three years while joining. For me there is no releiving letter from the company. I left, informed my manger etc, and send letter once i left.
As i read some replies i think i am pretty screwed up. Let me see what the lawer says. There are couple of friends(around 4) of mine whom have left in the same fashion and some having court hearings etc. In my case i thought it would be forgotten after some pressure on the CEO. There is no governing board or anything like that for the company. Its properiotory.
Thanks to all again!

ajmat · 13th September 2006, 10:37

Few Points
Were you ever summoned for a hearing on this ?
Unilateral bond means that you have a case
Does the company have the time to fight this case ? Will they spend + lakhs to recover 2 lakhs. In the time takenin court, they could earn a crore in revenue

kutlee · 13th September 2006, 10:47

Ajmat,
I was never summoned. Initally there was a lawer for me and i think he has put some counter on this case after which i took shortcut(political contacts route) and didn't follow it up. This is the only communcation after the initial letter from the lawer stating this court case. the firm has a dedicated lawer and this is his job. i think company never bothers since its outsourced and there are many people who left like this..
What i am looking for now i is there any case in any Iindian court which i can refer and say unilateral bond is invalid.

condor · 13th September 2006, 12:18

kutlee, can you pls explain the 'unilateral bond' you mentioned? I am trying to understand what is unilateral about it.

The bond you mentioned was there when you joined, and you knew about it. Verbally stating of conditions is one thing. Is there any document you have signed, that states this bond?

Regarding the reduction of tenure - it will not apply to you since you had already left by then.

Curious, but how did your present company accept you without a relieving letter?

Ajmat's point about the cost of recovery to the company makes sense. Dont lose heart.

12th September 2006, 16:46	#1
kutlee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,141 Thanked: 232 Times View My Garage	The Company Bonds & Employee Agreement Discussion Hi all, I am having issues with bonded labour with a firm in India. The story goes like this... I joined a firm with 3 years bond for 2 laks (company was doing well and offer looked good). but after year, due to sep11, went down, no one was laid off, but there wasn't any hike in salary, perks were cut etc. But when things were getting well, hikes were meager(they might have got the taste of paying low). so they have moved away from their initial promise, which showed hikes after each half year. So i asked them to releave of the bond and i have another excellent offer and i want to go. They didn't and i left with a letter saying i am leaving. This happened after 1.5 years. Now they have sent Decree to collect money. the amount is 2.85 laks. They have sent court notices etc. And i used some high profile political contacts, and the CEO told there won't be any further proceedings from their side and we were left in peace. Now all of a sudden there is a court decree and demand of paying money. Meanwhile some of my friends(lawer) told me that they infact have to prove 2 laks worth of damage etc for them to win the case. also there is some supreme court ruling which says bonded labour is invalid etc etc.. can anyone shed light on this? I can accept that there has been few mistakes on my part. Do i still stand a chance? Whats the way to go? If anyone needs more details to help me, i can PM them. Many thanks, Mahesh.
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 16:53	#2
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,858 Thanked: 27,925 Times View My Garage	I know very little on this but can you prove 1: Your performance was above par and that the hikes did not reflect your skills 2: Were the promises of hikes documentd ? 3: Can they prove 2 lakhs worth of training 4: Can you prove that you have added revenue of Rs 5 lakhs or more Who issued the decree - can you check back with courts to ascetain that the document actually came from the court
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 18:01	#4
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	A similar thing happened to one of my friends. But he was with a big manufacturing company. He was served a court notice. They claim 2L for training imparted and facilities usage. He is contesting claiming he was made to work under un healthy dangerous situations and that the management didnt heed to his complaints. kutlee, I guess you can contest on basis of what Ajmat has said. In most cases the companies will not press for a refund because of the bad publicity it would bring if the news leaks out to the press. Try your luck, contest the case. As in many other cases they'll probably not take it up if they find you putting your foot down.
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 18:05	#5
DueLLeR BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Vashi / Navi Mumbai Posts: 214 Thanked: 123 Times	Bonded Labour Hi Kutlee, I had a similar experience with a BPO. I quit the company after 2 months of training. They were after me to pay them the training charges, but I hadn't signed any bond. Of course, I didn't pay them anything. They kept calling and I kept ignoring. Now the issue is put to rest. As far as I know, no Indian company can engage an employee under anything remotely connected to bonded labour. Meaning, you can quit when you wish. But companies often twist the meaning using complicated, legal words. So the 2 odd lakhs that they want from you might actually be something like a 'quit without notice' charge. In my opinion, you should show the document that you signed (the 2 lakh bond document) to a lawyer and find out the exact implications. Also, it is highly unlikely that a company will file a case against an employee for such a huge amount unless there is a serious issue or personal grudge. Hope this helps. Cheers!
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 18:44	#6
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,007 Times View My Garage	kutlee, while this is not 'bonded labor', one can see the problems you are facing. Do you have a copy of the terms & conditions of employment that you had signed when you joined the company? Either way, approach a lawyer so you will know exactly where you stand. All the best.
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 19:20	#7
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	What's the name of the company?
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 20:11	#8
jango BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York & kotayam Posts: 800 Thanked: 23 Times View My Garage	Is there any website which talks abt bonded labor in INDIA !!
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 20:38	#9
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	You may be OK if the bond is tied to your employment contract, as there may be a breach of contract. If not, you're screwed. If they already have a Court Decree, it's gotten quite serious, & you haven't attended court yet or haven't posted full details of your case. You now need to go to court yourself & have the Decree stayed or vacated. Get yourself a good lawyer, or if you're really stuck, PM me or call me (+91 98210 62904) & let me see what I can do. All the best.
	() Thanks

12th September 2006, 20:56	#10
sammyboy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ggn/Dehradun Posts: 1,842 Thanked: 521 Times View My Garage	Kutlee ,I can understand what you must be gong through .Bonds are something which a lot of companies started because of the high attrition rates and loss of valuable manpower .The issue that you are facing is something a lot of us face could be by not reading the fine print on the contracts or some unfortunate reasons like the 9/11 in your case.Its highly imperative that before signing any contract you consult a good lawyer and discuss the pros and cons of getting bound by the legal thread. But whats done is done ... As a lot of our fellow members have suggested , get in touch with a good lawyer who can fight the case on the basis of the company not having fulfilled its obligations to you by giving you what was promised (i assume it is in black and white). All the best bro ,hope things work out for you.
	() Thanks

13th September 2006, 10:31	#12
kutlee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,141 Thanked: 232 Times View My Garage	Thanks to all you guys. As far as the bond thing goes, The bond is completely unilateral. But i would not sign a bond unless the offer seems good to me (eventhough there is nothing mentioned in the bond). I have a court decree which was dated Nov 2005 and it reached my home only yesterday. Already arranged my parents to pick up good lawer and do whatever needed. There is another twist in the story. The company has reduced the bond from 3 years to two years in a few months after i left the firm. I have proof. Because my wifey joined in one month before and left with pukka releiving after two years. She too had signed bond for three years while joining. For me there is no releiving letter from the company. I left, informed my manger etc, and send letter once i left. As i read some replies i think i am pretty screwed up. Let me see what the lawer says. There are couple of friends(around 4) of mine whom have left in the same fashion and some having court hearings etc. In my case i thought it would be forgotten after some pressure on the CEO. There is no governing board or anything like that for the company. Its properiotory. Thanks to all again!
	() Thanks

13th September 2006, 10:37	#13
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,858 Thanked: 27,925 Times View My Garage	Few Points Were you ever summoned for a hearing on this ? Unilateral bond means that you have a case Does the company have the time to fight this case ? Will they spend + lakhs to recover 2 lakhs. In the time takenin court, they could earn a crore in revenue
	() Thanks

13th September 2006, 10:47	#14
kutlee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,141 Thanked: 232 Times View My Garage	Ajmat, I was never summoned. Initally there was a lawer for me and i think he has put some counter on this case after which i took shortcut(political contacts route) and didn't follow it up. This is the only communcation after the initial letter from the lawer stating this court case. the firm has a dedicated lawer and this is his job. i think company never bothers since its outsourced and there are many people who left like this.. What i am looking for now i is there any case in any Iindian court which i can refer and say unilateral bond is invalid.
	() Thanks

13th September 2006, 12:18	#15
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,007 Times View My Garage	kutlee, can you pls explain the 'unilateral bond' you mentioned? I am trying to understand what is unilateral about it. The bond you mentioned was there when you joined, and you knew about it. Verbally stating of conditions is one thing. Is there any document you have signed, that states this bond? Regarding the reduction of tenure - it will not apply to you since you had already left by then. Curious, but how did your present company accept you without a relieving letter? Ajmat's point about the cost of recovery to the company makes sense. Dont lose heart.
	() Thanks