[narayans80]

Have a personal question, indirectly related to the incident and the subsequent runway closure and delays.

I am flying out in 2 days through DXB. Yesterday flew out with a 4 hour delay. Today's flight from my airport (BLQ) has been cancelled both ways. What should be my realistic expectations on what I should encounter on Saturday? There is only one flight to DXB per day.

[Turbanator]

Here is a tip for everyone: always remember to keep your passport, visa and a govt. issued ID card on yourself at all times, even when going to the washroom.

I think the probability of losing documents by carrying all the time with self, will be more than losing in such scenarios. Besides, I understand authorities will definitely help by giving permits/passports faster. However, as a practice, I normally put Passport and wallet in my pocket before landing which at other times are in my laptop bag.

It will be a good idea for everyone to have pictures of such documents taken on mobiles and uploaded on icloud or similar cloud setup.

[KiloAlpha]

Article in Wired magazine about the crash:

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/dubai-...-flight-ek521/

[DCEite]

Something that has got me confused.

There are reports that "crash investigation teams" are being sent from US and Boeing officials also visiting Dubai to "investigate" the cause of crash.

But shouldn't determining the cause of this incident be very easy?

The pilots and crew members survived the crash, they should be in the best position to tell what really happened and describe the exact reason for that landing?

Why is a crash investigation need to be carried out here?

Am i missing something.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by DCEite

The pilots and crew members survived the crash, they should be in the best position to tell what really happened and describe the exact reason for that landing?

Why is a crash investigation need to be carried out here?

I think the investigation would cover why this accident happened and how to prevent this in future. And, cross-check the account of the crew with the flight data.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Something that has got me confused.

There are reports that "crash investigation teams" are being sent from US and Boeing officials also visiting Dubai to "investigate" the cause of crash.

But shouldn't determining the cause of this incident be very easy?

The pilots and crew members survived the crash, they should be in the best position to tell what really happened and describe the exact reason for that landing?

Why is a crash investigation need to be carried out here?

Am i missing something.

The crew will tell the investigators HOW it happened. Investigators will study the wreckage and corroborate the details with the crew's and other witnesses statements to figure out WHY it happened. Their observations and results will help the manufacturers to reduce (if not eliminate) the chances of this happening again.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Why is a crash investigation need to be carried out here?

There are 2 reasons:

1. To answer why it happened.
2. To find ways/make recommendations how to avoid in future.

Air Accident investigation is a mandatory thing, regardless of outcome of the incident.

British Airways 38 crash in LHR 8 years back is a good case study where investigators had entire crew, passengers, blackboxes and the plane surviving the crash (plane was written off) and yet didn't have the root cause There is a Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episode on this incident too.

Usually the investigators of the incident country, manufacturer and manufacturer country will be involved.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Why is a crash investigation need to be carried out here?

From what I know, there's an investigation every time there's something technical unusual about a flight.

And I think that's a very good thing: *every* incident being probed only gives us lessons to make sure it doesn't happen again.

The NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) is a ruthless organization that is generally very strict in any vehicle-related accidents. They probe any incident, the recent Tesla crash, the Texas hot air balloon crash or automobiles.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

The crew will tell the investigators HOW it happened. Investigators will study the wreckage and corroborate the details with the crew's and other witnesses statements to figure out WHY it happened. Their observations and results will help the manufacturers to reduce (if not eliminate) the chances of this happening again.

Well, the crew - the pilots and the ATC can describe exactly WHY it happened. As per initial reports the landing gear did not expand and then the pilots decided to take off again just before landing. So it should not be too difficult to understand the root cause *if* that was the case.

Why we do not have statements from Pilots and ATC yet in the media?

[phamilyman]

Amid much of the social media outrage in the west about the passengers scrambling to bring their luggage first is this beautiful thread off twitter:
https://twitter.com/peegeekay/status/761217400700141569

Here's a plain text dump
I have been thinking about this Emirates flight thing, and how everyone is indignant that passengers were trying to take bags while exiting.
Naturally this is incredibly stupid, and maybe it's not just an Indian passengers thing. Or perhaps it is.
Life as an expat in the Gulf is pretty surreal. And hard to explain. I have tried to find parallels but I am struggling to find one like it.
For starters, if you are an expat, one thing you learn quickly is that all public institutions are heavily contorted and not in your favour.
Traffic Police. Landlords. Banks. Employers. You are at the mercy of all of them. And usually just a bad day away from getting into trouble.
For instance, expats cannot own property. You rent them from a capricious landlord, who might just evict you anytime, or hike rents randomly
For a long time, while I was growing up, expats weren’t even allowed to own certain types of vehicles - like 4 wheel drives. No idea why.
If your salary was below a threshold, you couldn't bring your family. So you had to live alone, and go back home when you could afford to.
What makes it worse is that this isn’t a stated bias, but that it’s arbitrary and willfully unaccountable, with little or no recourse.
Have a problem? You couldn’t go to the police, or a court. Or write letters to the editor of a newspaper. Or form unions. Nothing.
You could go to the Indian Embassy, and I think it's probably the most depressing, soul-crushing place in the Middle East.
I had a school friend whose dad didn’t get paid for four months. They ate curd rice for dinner the whole time. What could they do?
In such situations, I have seen immigrants cling to their possessions like their lives depended on it. Really.
And nothing is more bizarre than the *obsession* about passports.
As most Gulf kids will tell you, the folder in the cupboard containing the passports is akin to the first born child of the family.
If you woke up my Dad in the middle of the night and told him there was a fire, he would first run for the passports, and then the family.
The only thing you had were your possessions. You kept them securely. You saved receipts and the packaging it came in. Just in case.
This is the immigrant experience. Keep your stuff with you. If you lose it, or if it's stolen, it's gone. There's no recourse.
One of my uncles worked there for 32 years in one company. Unbroken. Throughout. When he left the office gifted him a small coffee maker.
He asked for and kept the receipt for the coffee-maker. Because who knows.
And yes, Gulf sector flights are painful. And yes, it’s filled with people mobbing around. And are painful to flight attendants. All true.
But these are all people who have saved money for years to afford the flight ticket to go home with leave bestowed grudgingly by employers.
Those customs forms they give you to fill out when you land? Most of them don't know how to do that - now try explaining travel insurance.
So yeah, If there’s tremendous uncertainty about existence, and no recourse, yeah, I can see people trying to take their bags if they could.
*fin*

[carwatcher]

From what I've seen on NAtGeo and Discovery it is the norm in Aviation sector to go to depth of ANY mishap related to aeroplanes whatever be the cost and time.
There are teams also sent for study of earthquakes from many countries.

[Thad E Ginathom]

it is the norm in Aviation sector to go to depth of ANY mishap related to aeroplanes whatever be the cost and time.

My impression from news media is that (in UK at least) even if a private plane crashlands in a field, it gets investigated.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Well, the crew - the pilots and the ATC can describe exactly WHY it happened. As per initial reports the landing gear did not expand and then the pilots decided to take off again just before landing. So it should not be too difficult to understand the root cause *if* that was the case.

Pilots and crew members are not engineers. They can only tell what happened. It might have not happened if they knew why it happened in the first place. Everyone knows that the landing gear did not function properly by why it malfunctioned is the job for investigators. Investigators try and find out the root cause of incident which might be a silly mistake or overlook by ground staff. In that case they purpose foolproof methods for future flights so that such incident do not happen in future. Developed countries even have investigators for road accidents.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Well, the crew - the pilots and the ATC can describe exactly WHY it happened. As per initial reports the landing gear did not expand and then the pilots decided to take off again just before landing. So it should not be too difficult to understand the root cause *if* that was the case.

The pilots rely on the instrument panel to confirm landing gear is down, there is no visual confirmation that it has actually happened sitting in the cockpit. Usually landing gears are down a good 5 min prior to landing. If they didnt have that confirmation, I doubt they'd have attempted the landing at the first place.

If its a mechanical/instrument/sensor failure it might take weeks/months to piece together and report.

Emirates has a lot resting on this investigation, they have a huge fleet of 777s.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Amid much of the social media outrage*snip*

I do agree that as someone who is residing outside the country, the papers are worth more than our lives. This event has changed the perspective on how to take documents.

But if you had seen the original video, there were people scrambling for laptop bags and not to forget the bloke who took the viral video at the first place. Were these really needed in an event where seconds counted and our actions affected other lives as well?

You have to admit, we would rank among the lowest in terms of compliance to rules (Our Accident in PICS thread stands testament to that). Among aviation events, there was a Singapore Airlines flight to/from Bombay couple of years back, where few passengers were treated for minor to major injuries because they weren't belted up for turbulence inspite of announcements.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Amid much of the social media outrage in the west about the passengers scrambling to bring their luggage first is this beautiful thread off twitter:
https://twitter.com/peegeekay/status/761217400700141569

As a 'Gulf kid', ie born in Dubai and spent 18 years of my life, including my childhood there, I'd like to say that most of what is said in this tweet/post is true. I don't know if things are different/better now... I never bothered going back to find out.