[mac187]

While i am extremely disappointed with the fact that people where able to siphon of money with help of crooks in the banking system. Is it right to believe that these bogus transactions can be identified in the days to come?

If a bank is given X amount in 2000 notes. They will have to show proof of how and to whom it was delivered.

Banks will have to show ATM withdrawal transactions or deposit against the disbursement of 2000 notes. In either case, Bank accounts and ID proof come into play.

While it would be a huge task, With bank accounts tracking a account holders history should be easy. Avg. balance, past debit/ credit history etc.

Scrutiny of ID's can reveal alot more cases may be a year (or more) into this exercise.

Am I missing something?

[earthian]

Originally Posted by mac187

Am I missing something?

The magnitude and cost of the job.

[mac187]

Originally Posted by earthian

The magnitude and cost of the job.

I agree, scrutiny of ID's would a huge task. That's where I think, it would take years to unearth all the bogus transactions.

However scrutiny of the banking accounts shouldn't be very tough. I say this because, most of the banks in India run on a similar core banking system. I am sure any IT company can come up with a solution to identify the anomalies in accounts.

Either ways, with time and effort if IT teams can identify a fraction of the black money hoarders, it would be a achievement worth all this pain.

[hybridpetrol]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

The vast amounts that are being recovered are probably a mere drop in the ocean as far as total frauds are concerned.

I think GOI failed to asses significant amount of bankers going rouge and that is a bad thing to have happened. It just that we are a highly corrupt society - a mere dangling of notes and people seem to throw all the honesty in the dustbin.

This whole exercise says one thing loud and clear - there is no point in blaming politicians for the corruption. Unless the whole lot working under him cooperate, it is impossible for someone at the top to get away with looting the public.
We are a public who vote for money & freebies. We justify evading tax by pointing at someone who has been successfully evading tax for several years and living a comfortable life. We are the public who complain about poor infrastructure etc compared to the developed nations, where compliance to laws is high. We complain also that corrupt people are not punished, when we ourselves take part in crimes in one way or other.
We choose dishonesty by saying honest people cannot live in this country. We are also the people who spread such foolish propaganda, encouraging others to think it is okay to take & pay bribes, evade taxes, adjusting to the lowly life the dishonesty brings in.
Let us hope this exercise helped at least some percentage of people to come back to honesty and help the nation move forward.

[sukhoi30]

Originally Posted by hybridpetrol

We are a public who vote for money & freebies. We justify evading tax by pointing at someone who has been successfully evading tax for several years and living a comfortable life. We are the public who complain about poor infrastructure etc compared to the developed nations, where compliance to laws is high. We complain also that corrupt people are not punished, when we ourselves take part in crimes in one way or other.
We choose dishonesty by saying honest people cannot live in this country. We are also the people who spread such foolish propaganda, encouraging others to think it is okay to take & pay bribes, evade taxes, adjusting to the lowly life the dishonesty brings in.

It is not always easy in our country to hold a moral high ground. I remember when I go to a hardware shop, jewelers shop, local cloth shop etc, and try to pay them by card, they used to only laugh at me, as if I was committing a crime by not keeping enough cash with me. They would simply say , "Sir, we prefer only cash. If you want, ATM is just opposite the road".
In fact, I did feel guilty in a way that I did not carry enough cash in my pocket. Never realized that I was party to a practice that was helping tax evaders.
But now, if I go to the same shops they say , "Sir, pay by cash or card?".
Definitely, there is some change on the ground. Now, I can also hold my head high and say , "I will pay by card only". If they refuse, I go to the next shop.

[hybridpetrol]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

But now, if I go to the same shops they say , "Sir, pay by cash or card?".
Definitely, there is some change on the ground. Now, I can also hold my head high and say , "I will pay by card only". If they refuse, I go to the next shop.

This is something that has become true in the recent days. Shops that do not accept cards are finding themselves idle throughout the day.

Even this day, we can see some wholesale shops mentioning 2% service charge funda, after the GOI has released announcement scrapping all these. However, with increasing insisting from public to use cashless modes of transactions, such frauds will find themselves singled out easily.

[ptushar]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

Mind my words, you will see lot of withdrawals post Dec 30th if the withdrawal norms are eased

Still don't understand. Once the money comes into the account, it is traceable. Now if a person withdraws large sums of money post Dec 30th, then too it is a traceable activity. The purpose is still achieved.

It is frustrating when you need to talk to two complete strangers and explain why you are putting your own cash into your own account. And to start with they are looking at you as a criminal and want you to give an explanation that satisfies them. Makes no sense. And that too after you have set the Dec 30th deadline yourself and appealed to people to NOT rush to the bank as you have ample time

I am an engineer yaar. Submitting assignments on the last day is now part of the DNA.

[sukhoi30]

Originally Posted by ptushar

Still don't understand. Once the money comes into the account, it is traceable. Now if a person withdraws large sums of money post Dec 30th, then too it is a traceable activity. The purpose is still achieved.

Not easy when the money is deposited into multiple accounts, multiple banks and then withdrawn. Some I know is holding many accounts in many banks and most are opened with benami names and addresses. In short they are not KYC compliant. They are also using dormant accounts which is also non KYC compliant. Restricting withdrawal from such accounts may or may not be feasible as there could be genuine non KYC compliant accounts in operation. I have one too, an account on which the address is not changed as I had shifted residence since opening that account.

Originally Posted by ptushar

It is frustrating when you need to talk to two complete strangers and explain why you are putting your own cash into your own account. And to start with they are looking at you as a criminal and want you to give an explanation that satisfies them. Makes no sense. And that too after you have set the Dec 30th deadline yourself and appealed to people to NOT rush to the bank as you have ample time

Read above. That is why RBI is asking banks to be wary of such non KYC compliant accounts and deposits to them. RBI rolled back the earlier directive to question deposits beyond Rs. 5000 for KYC compliant accounts.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by earthian

The magnitude and cost of the job.

And the Will too.

Everyone in the chain at all levels has played their role in the leakage of currency. So who will catch whom? They have all got their hands dirty.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

And the Will too.

Everyone in the chain at all levels has played their role in the leakage of currency. So who will catch whom? They have all got their hands dirty.

Much as that particular aspect is intangible, it's the biggest deal maker or breaker depending on how one looks at it. Numbers don't lie (they're agnostic by default, context gives them meaning), but humans aren't driven solely by numbers, are they?

One man can start a revolution, but can't see it through alone, and it's becoming slowly and painfully apparent that the GoI underestimated its own 'honesty', and that of its auxiliaries in charge of implementing not just the current initiative but wider economic reform.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

One man can start a revolution, but can't see it through alone, and it's becoming slowly and painfully apparent that the GoI underestimated its own 'honesty', and that of its auxiliaries in charge of implementing not just the current initiative but wider economic reform.

But then it is a complete lack of understanding on the GOI's part. If you are so far away from the actual reality of our country's functioning then I shudder to think what will you do running it. It is a well known fact that the bureaucracy is totally corrupt in our country and to rely upon them to make such a huge exercise possible is, IMHO, a lack of vision. On the other hand some might say that the ruling class is always a step ahead of you and does everything after multiple calculations. So may I dare to suggest that it was only the political advantages of this policy that they were after and not any real economic change?

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But then it is a complete lack of understanding on the GOI's part....

To be fair, it's an enormous catch-22, needing an 'honest' bureaucracy to clean up their own dishonesty.

Waiting for an honest bureaucracy to begin something will mean we never get off the start line, starting with a dishonest bunch like we have now means we'll never see the finish line. We'll end up settling for partial benefits ultimately, sort of a consolation prize for trying.

Exactly why I'm not a fan of big-bang disruptive change, it needs too many factors to come together and makes too many assumptions, neither of which practically works on a scale this large.

But then, sensation is what brings in the votes and the moolah. People usually disregard believers of slow, incremental, lasting change.

[carwatcher]

Bureaucracy is totally corrupt, 99% of people are honest, 99% of people are corrupt, poor are inconvenienced, banking staff is mostly honest, banking staff is mostly corrupt. WoW

If I am a politician I would blatantly say that what is wrong, unethical or unprofessional if I did Demonetisation purely due to 'Political Advantage' as who else should do it apart from a politician? Also this opportunity was available to every PM or party, so if they decided against it due to this very same reason of political advantage, how can I be blamed. With regard to public inconvenience the public will give the verdict in the polls so why critics worry? To hell with them seriously. I never question why the bloggers post a blog, critics criticise, news anchors debate, etc. because I know that it's their job. So let me do my job.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

But then it is a complete lack of understanding on the GOI's part. If you are so far away from the actual reality of our country's functioning then I shudder to think what will you do running it. It is a well known fact that the bureaucracy is totally corrupt in our country and to rely upon them to make such a huge exercise possible is, IMHO, a lack of vision. On the other hand some might say that the ruling class is always a step ahead of you and does everything after multiple calculations. So may I dare to suggest that it was only the political advantages of this policy that they were after and not any real economic change?

Even if people are corrupt, machine audit trails don't lie.Believe me - i Speak from experience. Anyway i don't think everybody is corrupt in government or in banks. of course there are quite a few bad apples in government like there are rogues everywhere (among doctors too) and they generally have a justification that the society itself is corrupt. So why should they be any different?

Let's wait for January middle for the dust to settle and find out the outcome of this mammoth exercise. I expect around one lakh crore not to return to banks and another 1 lakh crore because of forced disclosures/advanced tax payments.

[GeneralJazz]

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/zBG...t-account.html

RBI removes the Rs.5000 cash deposit limit for KYC compliant bank accounts.